Winterizing just the waterfall feature?

[pcm2a]

I have a pool with spa that spills over into the pool and it has a waterfall feature. In Nashville, Tn it is starting to drop to freezing and it seem crazy to have that waterfall running out there in freeze mode. I would like to know if it is possible to winterize just the water feature while leaving the rest of the system running. The previous owners ran all of the pumps, all of the time, all year long.

The waterfall pump is it's own system and does not filter through the main pools filter. It feeds from a drain in the bottom of the pool. In the first picture the waterfall is the pipe with the clear container on top of it. In the second photo you can see the pump and it has a grey valve on the input to the pump. Why would there need to be a valve there? The ultimate goal would be to winterize the waterfall and then I could turn the freeze protection off for it. If I need to move the entire pump inside I could probably do that as well.

 

[Catanzaro]

Is the grey valve, with the red handle, the suction side of the waterfall feature that you are trying to winterize? If so, then you can shut off the valve, vacuum water out to the pump basket and then clear the waterfall line until no more water is spilling over in the pool. There are valves that you can purchase that an air compressor can be hooked up to. You can place the valves in the suction and return side of the pump housing and clear the water both ways. This would actually lock air towards the bottom of the pool. This all assumes I have the right area in question.

Have you cleared lines before? Do you have a compressor? I can send the information on the plugs tomorrow.

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No need to bring pump inside unless you want to, but you will still have to purge the lines of water and lock the air in at least towards the bottom drains. The waterfall side can be left open as there will be no free standing water by the time you are done.

It feeds from a drain in the bottom of the pool.

Another thought considering you have 3 pumps. How many drains do you have? Any of the suction side plumbing in the same run and maybe connected somewhere? If so, then you clear the waterfall line, it could affect other side with air. All depends on how this is plumbed.

 

[cfherrman]

It appears that the waterfall is it's own drain as the main pump drain is not easily hooked up there, and I wouldn't tee it in the ground when you can tee it right there.

Use a strong shop vac, I think it's better then a compressor due to volume. Close the grey valve and remove the waterfall pump if you have unions. Hook up vac to blow and blow out the waterfall. Shut off main pump if in, Hook up the vac on blow to the grey valve and turn on vac and valve. Look in main pump basket if air is moving through it, if so you can't winterize as drains tied together, if not look at the drain in the pool, lots of air should be coming out, if not you need a better vac or a high volume compressor. Run 2-5 mins and shut valve and turn off vac. You can chase it with antifreeze after this.

 

[Catanzaro]

Here is the link and other information:

Winter Pool Plug with Valve for 1-1/2 Inch Fitting, with Blow Thru Valve - No. 10 AQWPV-10

Thinking about closing my own pool but have some concerns

 

[pcm2a]

It appears that the waterfall is it's own drain as the main pump drain is not easily hooked up there, and I wouldn't tee it in the ground when you can tee it right there.

Use a strong shop vac, I think it's better then a compressor due to volume. Close the grey valve and remove the waterfall pump if you have unions. Hook up vac to blow and blow out the waterfall. Shut off main pump if in, Hook up the vac on blow to the grey valve and turn on vac and valve. Look in main pump basket if air is moving through it, if so you can't winterize as drains tied together, if not look at the drain in the pool, lots of air should be coming out, if not you need a better vac or a high volume compressor. Run 2-5 mins and shut valve and turn off vac. You can chase it with antifreeze after this.

The waterfall has its own drain/suction at the bottom of the pool right near the waterfall and does not share any lines with anything else (as far as I know). This all makes sense to me except for how to remove the pump from the lines. The pipe that is screwed into the in and out of the pump housing doesn't look like it would move to me, without damaging the connection to the other pipe. Maybe the large part of the valve would turn and come apart? Is there a way to blow everything out from inside the pump housing skimmer basket?

It doesn't seem like the best design if you can't easily remove the pump housing. What if something went wrong with it!

 

[mknauss]

Welcome to the world of pool plumbing! My pump is plumbed the same way, no unions. So will be a complete replumb when time comes to remove it.

Your pump should have a drain port. Normally you can screw in an adapter to connect your compressor. I do not winterize so a bit out of my league but others will add.

Take care.

 

[cfherrman]

You could run compressor air into the drain port as mentioned, I personally would be scared of pressuring the pump up and cracking it. Might see if there is any other people that chime in about that.

You will also only clear the waterfall feature as it probably has less height to it than the drain. You would need to install a valve on the pressure side of the system.

If your handy and have duct tape, you could remove the lid to the pump and build a adapter out if a plastic bottle of some sort and tape it all together.

If it was me I would cut and add unions right now, would be cheaper than the power used over the winter.

 

[pcm2a]

If you check the photos above I already have a grey valve on the pressure side. I'm not as concerned about power usage as water loss. I seem to lose a ton of water from evaporation when that thing is running.

You will also only clear the waterfall feature as it probably has less height to it than the drain

I don't quite understand that. The pressure side with the valve is close to the ground. The output side goes up into the air maybe 2 feet then backdown into the ground. The water feature is several feet above the water.

 

[mknauss]

The output side goes up into the air maybe 2 feet then backdown into the ground.

That could be a poor mans check valve. If the loop is as high as the waterfall outlet, the water would not drain back to the suction side when the pump turns off.

 

[pcm2a]

Ok guys I think I am making some real good progress here. I opened up the pump's skimmer and removed the basket. I sucked out the water with my vac after closing the valve. I blew out the line going to the waterfall, water came out for a while and eventually stopped. Next I stuck the vac on the pressure side and opened the valve. I thought the drain came from the bottom of the pool by the waterfall but it is actually two ports on the side of the pool (picture below). They bubbled like crazy and I let that run for about 2 minutes and closed the valve.

Update: I decided to take a second pass at it. This time I sucked the line that goes to the waterfall out and it sucked a little bit more water out, maybe 16-20oz. I also blew the pressure side out one more time for good measure.

Do I need to put antifreeze in the pressure side line and if so how would I go about doing that? Maybe my vac would push the antifreeze in but I would need to full up the canister and it's pretty huge...

Is there anyway to know for sure that those two ports aren't hooked in anywhere else?

I took a video of both. At about 20 seconds it switches over to the pressure side.
Winterizing the waterfall - YouTube

 

[cfherrman]

Pressure = output of pump, or the waterfall
Suction = inlet of pump, where your two drain are

Just for clarification of a older post the air is going to take the easiest path and if you were blowing both sides at the same time it would probably only clear one side and not the other, I guessed waterfall since the total hight from the pump to the outlet is less than the pump to the drains. Sounds like you got it figured out!

So now you air locked the drain with air and depending on volume of air used there may or may not be water still in the pipe. This is why some people go the extra step with antifreeze and it will either mix or displace the water left in the pipe. To do this you need to fill the suction pipe and chase after it while you open the grey valve. Watch the drain till a little pink comes out and then your done. Keep it air tight and the level of antifreeze above the grey valve level.

 

[pcm2a]

Pressure = output of pump, or the waterfall
Suction = inlet of pump, where your two drain are

Just for clarification of a older post the air is going to take the easiest path and if you were blowing both sides at the same time it would probably only clear one side and not the other, I guessed waterfall since the total hight from the pump to the outlet is less than the pump to the drains. Sounds like you got it figured out!

So now you air locked the drain with air and depending on volume of air used there may or may not be water still in the pipe. This is why some people go the extra step with antifreeze and it will either mix or displace the water left in the pipe. To do this you need to fill the suction pipe and chase after it while you open the grey valve. Watch the drain till a little pink comes out and then your done. Keep it air tight and the level of antifreeze above the grey valve level.

Thanks for the clarification on pressure vs suction, I was stating them incorrectly. From inside the pump's basket I blew all of the water out of the pressure side twice and then I sucked water out of the pressure side just to make sure I got all of the water out. Also from inside the pump's basked I blew all of the water out of the suction side, with the grey valve open. After blowing for a while I shut the valve. I did this twice for safe measure.

If there is still water in the suction side I assume it is a couple feed under the ground, would it freeze?
Is that valve air tight or will the air slowly leak out and let water in?

I am still not sure how to inject the antifreeze into the pipe (if it is really needed). What happens to that antifreeze when you open your pool up next year?

 

[JoyfulNoise]

I winterize just my waterfall but I don’t blow out or cap off the intake line. I just let that drain down to the water level which is below ground. I use a shopvac to suction the water out of the return pipe and I make sure both sides of the pump are drained. I then kill the breaker to the waterfall pump.

Never an issue.

 

[pcm2a]

I winterize just my waterfall but I don’t blow out or cap off the intake line. I just let that drain down to the water level which is below ground. I use a shopvac to suction the water out of the return pipe and I make sure both sides of the pump are drained. I then kill the breaker to the waterfall pump.

Never an issue.

That is just what I wanted to hear. I sounds like I have gone one step further by blowing out the suction pipe and closing the valve.

What do you mean "both sides of the pump", the pressure and suction side? I have emptied both and I took the drain plug out of the pump.

 

[JoyfulNoise]

That is just what I wanted to hear. I sounds like I have gone one step further by blowing out the suction pipe and closing the valve.

What do you mean "both sides of the pump", the pressure and suction side? I have emptied both and I took the drain plug out of the pump.

The two drain plugs on the pump, suction and discharge. Just ensures there’s no water by the impeller.

Yeah, as long as the water level on the suction side goes below ground and assuming you don’t have day after day of below freezing weather, there’s very little chance of water freezing in the pipe.

I have the exact same wall drains you do feeding my waterfall pump.

 

[cfherrman]

To be sure you can look at the freeze depth in your area and measure how far your water level in the pool is down

The antifreeze gets diluted during opening and is not a big deal, 1-2 gallons to 10-20k is nothing

 

[Catanzaro]

You could run compressor air into the drain port as mentioned, I personally would be scared of pressuring the pump up and cracking it. Might see if there is any other people that chime in about that.

What I mentioned before is the easiest way out here. After you clear the drain suction line and shut off the compressor, close the valve at the same time. No need to start taking anything apart and you can leave the pump outside. The water will have been removed from the pump as well during this process. The pressure and burst of air, especially at 20 psi and no more than 30 psi will not harm anything as there is water resistance to the drain. I have been closing my sprinkler lines with 120 psi for the last 16 years and have never damaged anything and maybe 2 sprinkler heads have had to be replaced over time.

Mas985 in a post (Post # 4 and # 6) Blowing out main drain? Friendly debate explains how much it really takes to burst piping. You are safe.

 

[cfherrman]

Not scared of pipeing, I was talking about the pump housing, which if you say gets only to 20-30 psi while clearing then thats great! I'm still in the vac camp because of volume though.

 

[Catanzaro]

Not scared of pipeing, I was talking about the pump housing, which if you say gets only to 20-30 psi while clearing then thats great! I'm still in the vac camp because of volume though.

If you order the plugs with the valves, this would be the easiest way to go with an air compressor. Although, it does not matter how you accomplish the task as long as you clear the lines with air and remove the water.

 

[pcm2a]

What I mentioned before is the easiest way out here. After you clear the drain suction line and shut off the compressor, close the valve at the same time. No need to start taking anything apart and you can leave the pump outside.

I read through some of that information but it looked like the plug was made to go in the pools skimmer basket. In my scenario the waterfall is it's own system and has no skimmer basket at the pool. The only thing I had to take apart was opening the pumps skimmer basket and removing the basket. Once the basket was out I had access to the suction and pressure lines and my vac blew them out. Total spent on parts $0!