Who can I hire to draw out the plumbing and equipment and automation.

[dannyparm]

I'm general contracting an in ground vinyl pool. Its 20 by 40 rectangle with spill over spa. I already have the filter and heater. The spa supplier sent me a nice diagram (with option for 1 pump or 2). Anyway what I would really love is some to advise me on:

#1. If I want pool automation should I get 1 or 2 Hayward TriStar® VS 950 Omni™ or 900?
#2. Can someone draw out the plumbing including actuator valves? I have 2 skimmers and 4 returns. Placement?
#3. Do I need 3 LED lights or 2 LED lights for pool. Assuming I need one more for spa. Placement?
#4. Looking at ozone and UV. Hayward Hydrapure vs Hydrorite UVO3. And where in the plumbing
#5. What equipment do I need for automation. As you can see I have mostly Hayward stuff so Omnilogic.
#6. Also wanting two deck jets on the house side to have a little water arch into pool. how do those fit into the pluming?

Yes I have asked pool builders but looking for 3rd party outside source to consult so that its not just the pool builders quickest easiest option.

 

[jimmythegreek]

Theres several ways to skin the cat. Really depends on what you want to achieve amd how automated you want to be. You only need 1 automation panel. You dont need ozone or UV don't bother doesnt work for pools. Is this spa a pre plumbed shell or ?

 

[dannyparm]

Theres several ways to skin the cat. Really depends on what you want to achieve amd how automated you want to be. You only need 1 automation panel. You dont need ozone or UV don't bother doesnt work for pools. Is this spa a pre plumbed shell or ?

It is a Preplumbed spa: Spillover Spas | McEwen Industries. Why do you say that UV and Ozone don't work?

 

[Dirk]

UV and Ozone systems sanitize the water that runs through them. Then that water runs back out into the pool, to mix with unsanitized water. Eventually, if you run the pump long enough, you'll achieve somewhat sanitized water throughout the pool. But the moment you turn the pump off, your water is no longer being sanitized. Or if someone gets in and pees in your pool, or a bird poops in it, there goes your nice clean water. Worse, those nasties float around in your pool, in and around you and your family and your guests, until they happen to get sucked up into your pump to get sanitized in the UV/OZ tank. That could be minutes, hours or days, depending on your pump schedule. Does that sound like a pool you'd like to swim in?

UV and Ozone systems do not provide any residual protection. That is their flaw. Chlorine, on the other hand, provides not only near-instant sanitizing, everywhere in your pool, 24/7, it does so whether the pump is on or not. It is the #1 best way to protect your pool. It sanitizes and oxidizes and you don't need any other system. And by the way, unless your pool is indoors, your pool will get all the UV it needs.

If you read the fine print, I'll bet your UV and Ozone systems' instructions tell you to add some chlorine to the water. That's because even the manufacturers of these systems know that UV and Ozone cannot properly protect a pool.

So even with these systems installed, you'd still have to run a chlorine pool. Yep, you would have just spent a lot of money on systems that don't do much at all...

 

[dannyparm]

UV and Ozone systems sanitize the water that runs through them. Then that water runs back out into the pool, to mix with unsanitized water. Eventually, if you run the pump long enough, you'll achieve somewhat sanitized water throughout the pool. But the moment you turn the pump off, your water is no longer being sanitized. Or if someone gets in and pees in your pool, or a bird poops in it, there goes your nice clean water. Worse, those nasties float around in your pool, in and around you and your family and your guests, until they happen to get sucked up into your pump to get sanitized in the UV/OZ tank. That could be minutes, hours or days, depending on your pump schedule. Does that sound like a pool you'd like to swim in?

UV and Ozone systems do not provide any residual protection. That is their flaw. Chlorine, on the other hand, provides not only near-instant sanitizing, everywhere in your pool, 24/7, it does so whether the pump is on or not. It is the #1 best way to protect your pool. It sanitizes and oxidizes and you don't need any other system. And by the way, unless your pool is indoors, your pool will get all the UV it needs.

If you read the fine print, I'll bet your UV and Ozone systems' instructions tell you to add some chlorine to the water. That's because even the manufacturers of these systems know that UV and Ozone cannot properly protect a pool.

So even with these systems installed, you'd still have to run a chlorine pool. Yep, you would have just spent a lot of money on systems that don't do much at all...

Thank you for the explanation. What I've been told is that you can run the pool at 1 parts per million with Chlorine instead of 3 if you use Ozone. So the thought is that its reduced chlorine not full replacement. Agree or disagree?

 

[Dirk]

Disagree. I believe that is marketing hype. If your pool was indoors, and no one ever swam in it, then maybe you could trust an Ozone system and 1ppm chlorine. I still wouldn't get in that pool.

But that's not what happens in a typical pool. Stuff gets into pools. All the time, day or night. Stuff you don't want in your eyes and your mouth and on your skin. It can happen at any time, even while you're swimming. Ozone cannot adequately protect you from that. Neither can UV. That stuff does not get removed from the water until it runs through the filter and the UV or ozone chamber(s). 1ppm of chlorine wouldn't do the job either. Maybe if there was no CYA in the water (which protects and buffers the chlorine). But between no CYA and ozone burning up what little chlorine there is, your 1ppm wouldn't last an hour in an outdoor pool. You want to add chlorine to your pool every few minutes? Not to mention water with no CYA in it is not comfortable.

Here's the problem. When they say "1 instead of 3" they are most likely referring to outdated, disproven numbers for chlorination. Or maybe standards used for commercial pools, or indoor pools. At TFP we teach (and use) the correct system of determining a proper level of chlorine for an outdoor residential pool (it's based on how much CYA is in the water). It's has nothing to do with UV or ozone systems. Claims of "1" or "3" are meaningless without understanding the FC/CYA relationship. So "what you've been told" is meaningless without that context.

With TFP methods, and proper amounts of chlorine and CYA in the water, you'll be properly protected and you won't feel or smell chlorine (if that's why you think you'd like 1 instead of 3). Harsh feeling water or smelly chlorine (or even the myths of green hair or bleached suits) are not experienced in a Trouble-Free-Pool.

If you like the sound of Ozone, or UV, then get it. They won't hurt you (other than maybe burning up some of your chlorine). I'm just telling you that they will not add any significant protection that the chlorine isn't already providing. And you shouldn't use any less chlorine than you would use otherwise. You can also choose to use less chlorine if you want to, you'll just be lowering your level of sanitation. And you'll probably end up with a pool full of algae along with the as-yet-to-be ozoned pathogens floating around.

If you want to get into "What I've been told" then I can share what I've been told. That some manufacturer's of these system incentivize pool builders to push their products, by offering substantial discounts up front. The PB makes a lot of profit, and the manufacturer's make it on the back end: namely by selling the very expensive replacement bulbs and ozone generators (whatever they are called). If what you were told came from someone trying to sell you a system, well, you might suspect their motivation.

We don't sell anything here. We are not "incentivized" to steer you anywhere except to what we've proven through science and the direct experience of hundreds of thousands of pool owners. Chlorine works. Nothing else is necessary.

 

[gingrbredman]

If you want to get into "What I've been told" then I can share what I've been told.

I think Dirk explained it very well, and I'll only add that he is one of many who will give you the same great advice. UV or Ozone systems for residential pools are a waste of money, and typically the only people who will tell you they are great are the pool builders who are making large profits off them. They install the systems, and leave you with expensive equipment you can not use to properly sanitize your pool.

You won't find anyone on this board who would suggest they are a system you should install. And the people you want to learn from about residential pools are on this site. You also won't find anyone who was duped into one of these systems by a PB rave about their decisions. You will however find quite a few of them who come here looking for help because their pool isn't clean and clear, and can't understand why their expensive system their PB installed isn't properly sanitizing their pool.

Read through a lot of the under construction threads. A lot of new posters will tell stories of "what they have been told" and why they are going with some magical system. But its always a PB who have told them that, not real life customers who have managed and maintained a TFP.

 

[dannyparm]

I think Dirk explained it very well, and I'll only add that he is one of many who will give you the same great advice. UV or Ozone systems for residential pools are a waste of money, and typically the only people who will tell you they are great are the pool builders who are making large profits off them. They install the systems, and leave you with expensive equipment you can not use to properly sanitize your pool.

You won't find anyone on this board who would suggest they are a system you should install. And the people you want to learn from about residential pools are on this site. You also won't find anyone who was duped into one of these systems by a PB rave about their decisions. You will however find quite a few of them who come here looking for help because their pool isn't clean and clear, and can't understand why their expensive system their PB installed isn't properly sanitizing their pool.

Read through a lot of the under construction threads. A lot of new posters will tell stories of "what they have been told" and why they are going with some magical system. But its always a PB who have told them that, not real life customers who have managed and maintained a TFP.

So you suggest classic chlorine then?

 

[Dirk]

Yes. TFP endorses sanitizing a pool with chlorine. We support three ways of doing that:

- monitoring the chlorine level (FC) every day or two and manually dosing with liquid chlorine to maintain the proper FC level. Or...

- using a saltwater chlorine generator (SWG or SWCG) that manufacturers chlorine gas from saltwater and dispenses it automatically into your pool at regular intervals. You still monitor the FC level, but you can do so a lot less often because once you adjust the SWG correctly it does a lot of your chores for you. I test once a week. I adjust the SWG a few times a year. During most of the year I don't buy, lug or store liquid chlorine. SWGs don't work in cold water, so in the winter I use liquid chlorine about 12 times (once a week). YMMV depending on how cold your pool water gets and for how long. Or...

- using an automated chlorine injection system. Like SWG systems, they require less testing and less chores, but they don't make the chlorine. You still have to buy it and lug it from store to house to the system's chlorine tank. They do have the advantage of not pooping out in the winter.

So you can still automate the sanitizing of your pool, but with a machine that uses chlorine, not UV or ozone.

 

[jimmythegreek]

Ozone works great in small body water, like a spa. I wouldne be without mine in my hot tub, you'd pry my cold dead fingers off it. Ozone actually eats up good amd combined chlorine, so not ideal for pools. For a pool, what your looking at is a gimmick. Real pool ozone systems that work are in waterparks amd commercial pools, amd they cost more than your total pool build. If you run your chlorine that low, your gonna have a green pool fast amd you will be testing the water 5x a day instead of swimming. Go with a SWG and it's easy maintenence. Every pool I build is a swg pool, its standard anymore.