White staining around pool and waterfall, Add Scale Free now or after pool drain?

[Ampollard]

All indicators below say empty and replace 80% of water. I have used Scale Free Plus for white ring before.(I raise the water level and add)
So, should I use before emptying, after refill or not at all. Is CLR a better product to scrub the ring with. Any other suggestions?

2/8/18
Chems:
FAC 1
TAC 1
CH 1000
CYA 200
TA 120 pH 7.2
TDS 2200
Pho 300
Temp 55F

Tucson, AZ, start-up 9/2013
6000 gal PebbleTec/Tile, IG Spool; Hayward EcoStar var spd pump, Hayward SwimClear cartridge filter, Hayward 400,000 btu heater, Paramount Clear O3 ozone generator, and Hayward Navigator Pro floor cleaner and CL float w/ 3" tabs.

 

[Texas Splash]

Hello and welcome to TFP! Let me get your thread started with a few TFP points as this is your first official visit with us:
1 - You appear to still be replying on pool store testing; most of which is questionable and leads to the purchase of expensive/unneeded store products. Please consider obtaining a TF-100 (link below) or Taylor K-2006C test kit. They are extremely reliable, accurate, and easily done at home.
2 - ScaleTec and other such products can be expensive and boast of removing scale or perhaps keeping it in suspension. Results are inconsistent at best which is why there is not a lot of support for those products here at TFP. But the main factor falls back on your home testing and managing the CH, PH, and TA to prevent scale from happening to begin with. We can help you with that.
3 - If (and I do mean if) we were to assume the store test was accurate, your CYA is extremely high, probably from store stabilized products like tablets, powdered shock, etc. The only way to lower CYA is water exchange which you probably already know.

So what to do now? This would be my Rx:
1 - Remove any tablets from the chlorine feeder and don't use it again. Use regular bleach to increase your FC. No scents and not splashless.
2 - Order a TF-100 (or Taylor K-2006C) ASAP. Since you'll be concerned with CH testing in your area, consider the magnetic speedstir as it helps to mix reagents very well for that test (and others).
3 - Be prepared to exchange water, but don't guess or rely on those store tests. Wait until you test you own water. You'll be surprised at the difference.
4 - Based on YOUR tests, you'll exchange the proper amount of water and adjust levels according to the links below in my signature.

As for the ScaleTec type products, if you chose to use them, wait until after the new water is in. But again, with properly balanced water, which include managing hard AZ water, you won't need those products.

Hope that helps.

 

[AusJohn]

First things first, welcome. Second, as mentioned above, it helps to have reliable test results. Thirdly, is that a reading of three hundred ppm for phosphate ? I suspect it's a typo. It's unusually high and it would almost have to relate to the use of metal chelants or phosphonic acid based antiscalants over a long period of time unless you have had a lot of fertiliser blowing into your pool. Phosphate is usually associated with algae problems in pools, but where you have a very high calcium hardness, which you appear to if the tests are correct, then it can generate calcium phosphate scale. This is much less soluble than calcium carbonate scale, so it forms at lower concentrations and is harder to remove. Pool shops usually have product for removing phosphate but if that concentration is correct it would a fairly big bill, it may be much cheaper to dump water and remove any small amount of residual phosphate with starver.

At the pH and alkalinity that you have, again assumint that these values are correct, then you are not highly saturated for calcium carbonate so the scale could well be phosphate.

If you are going to use antiscalant in a pool on a long term basis then a polymeric one is probably a better bet than a phosphonate based one. As you have a heater, that phosphate value is something that you might want to double check. If it's coming out at the waterfall and other areas, then it will be fouling the heater too. It can really help to make sure that you shut your heater off well before you turn off your pumps as this allows it to cool and minimises fouling.

I would double check the tests before you do anything drastic but if your testing gets similar results, then I think you will be dumping water, giving the scale deposits a quick acid clean, refilling and then you shouldn't need antiscalants once the water chemistry is back in the normal range.

 

[Ampollard]

Thank you both for the advice. I can order a kit and do my own testing. I have been relying on test strips. The water is usually crystal clear, as it is now. The Phos level is 300ppm as tested by Leslies. It has been a lot higher. We did have a bad infest of grasshoppers last summer for almost 3 months! I blamed the increase in Phos on that. I did clean the filters as soon as the grasshoppers were gone in Nov.
I have used 3" Triclor CL tabs all along. With my schedule, adding liquid CL daily especially in the summer is not going to be an option. But I keep thinking, I have a O3 generator! Why would I have to add any CL. Have I been doing wrong the past 4+ years???

 

[Texas Splash]

Have I been doing wrong the past 4+ years???

Perhaps more fortunate than anything. When you do receive your own kit and run that first set of tests, you may be quite surprised at the results. Test strips are nicknamed "guess strips" for a reason. We know chlorine tabs can increase CYA quite dramatically in just one season. And phosphates, while they help to sustain algae as a food source, are basically irrelevant when there is no algae. Hence, no algae = no need to test phosphates.

Once you receive your kit, please add it to your signature so we know what you're using, and post a full set of results as follows:
FC
CC
CYA
PH
TA
CH

We'll be happy to help you from there. Have a great weekend.

 

[mknauss]

The Ozone device is essentially useless. It provides little in sanitation and no residual.

For the ability to not add liquid chlorine daily your choice is a SWCG, a stenner pump using liquid chlorine, or staying with your solid chlorine and replacing a third of your pool water each month or so.

Phosphates are reported in PPB. And is of no consequence when you properly manage your pool water chemistry.

Take care.

 

[AusJohn]

Thanks mate,

ppb makes more sense. No issue there then.