White scale in fiberglass pool

chasley

New member
May 14, 2018
1
Temperance
Re: White scale in fibreglass pool

I have the same issue with a 6 year old viking fiberglass pool with a deep blue finish. Was anyone successful with cleaning the scale off?
 

rvanwychen

New member
May 31, 2018
4
Appleton, WI
Re: White scale in fibreglass pool

I am new here as well and have had the same problem since year two (now on year 4 and each year it gets worse) of our Trilogy Fortitude pool in Monaco color. I believe that is the same as MLSC 10 - just a different shape. Started out a beautiful, dark blue and now is light blue at best. I am wondering if we could get another update from MLSC 10 on what they all tried, what worked the best, and if it was worth the effort. Another before and after would be great. If anyone else has found something that works, please let me know.

Has anyone had any luck forcing the lifetime guarantee with trilogy pools?
 

Texas Splash

Mod Squad
TFP Expert
LifeTime Supporter
Re: White scale in fibreglass pool

MLSC 10 and I stay in touch. We're both working on our pools manually. It is suspected we have calcium silicate not carbonate, which is much more difficult to remove and doesn't seem to respond acidic water treatments or chemicals. I'm compiling a list of info and pics from my own experiences and will share them to this and a few other FB posts once I get it posted. Make sure to subscribe to this thread so you get a message once I make my post. Welcome to the forum chasley and rvanwychen. :wave:
 

Mslc10

Member
Jun 27, 2015
21
Bulverde, tx
Re: White scale in fibreglass pool

Hi guys! My experiment is hard work with sandpaper! So far is the only thing that has worked! Am considering an underwater Nemo” drill and use a sanding attachment . Other ,cheaper, thought is to get a flex drive to put on a cordless drill that remains on deck while flex goes underwater. The other thing you can try is a pneumatic sander off a compressor. Buy a heap one so your not out $$$!

- - - Updated - - -

http://www.thehardwarecity.com/prod...jmFGmLVgWRSrvH9JipgOSVGdRErk1CA0aAmrTEALw_wcB

https://rentaltoolsonline.com/v2-pool-spa-edition-cordless-underwater-drill-p-123800.htm?amp=1
 

Mslc10

Member
Jun 27, 2015
21
Bulverde, tx
Re: White scale in fibreglass pool

If you want to try a coating, here is some research;

Mark,
Our finish is the perfect solution for you fiberglass resurfacing. Our finish is extremely resistant to staining and scale caused by poor water conditions. Your current situation is a chemical reaction within the Gel Coat surface of the pool. Our finish is pH neutral and will not react with the chemistry that way. We do recommend that a sequestering agent be added to the water after the pool is refilled. We recommend Start-up Tech. These products will bind with any minerals and calcium that may be in the well or city water used to fill the pool and allows the filter to remove them.

Thank you for considering our finish for you pool. You are going to love the feel of the finish as well.

Best regards,

Kevin Lane
North American Sales Manager
United States, Mexico, Caribbean Islands
ecoFINISH® High Performance Coatings
[email protected]
www.ecopoolfinish.com
(602) 743-6088

ecoFinish®- Proven performance in thousands of backyards worldwide since 2008

United States – Australia – Belgium – Bonaire – Bosnia – Canada – Channel Islands – Congo - Curacao – Croatia – Dominican Republic - Estonia – France – Fr. West Indies - Germany – Greece – Ibiza – Iceland – Ireland – Italy – Latvia – Lithuania – Netherlands – New Zealand – Panama – Poland – Portugal – Puerto Rico – Spain – Sweden – Switzerland – Thailand – Turks and Caicos – Ukraine – United Kingdom – US Virgin Islands
 

rvanwychen

New member
May 31, 2018
4
Appleton, WI
Re: White scale in fibreglass pool

Thanks Mslc10 - did you happen to get a quote from the ecopoolfinish people? Just wondering what type of cost it is. Also, we also have a Trilogy Fiberglass pool. Did you ever try to work with them on their warranty? I am trying to work through our builder (also put our pool in) as the warranty clearly states Lifetime Surface Warranty.
 

Mslc10

Member
Jun 27, 2015
21
Bulverde, tx
Re: White scale in fibreglass pool

Thanks Mslc10 - did you happen to get a quote from the ecopoolfinish people? Just wondering what type of cost it is. Also, we also have a Trilogy Fiberglass pool. Did you ever try to work with them on their warranty? I am trying to work through our builder (also put our pool in) as the warranty clearly states Lifetime Surface Warranty.
Good luck! I had none with them! The warranty also states “except for discoloration , fading......” due to chemical imbalance ......
no direct quote but in the neighborhood of 8k......
 

Mslc10

Member
Jun 27, 2015
21
Bulverde, tx
Re: White scale in fibreglass pool

Here is what LAtham told me......







On Feb 6, 2018, at 6:15 PM, Rick Black <[email protected]> wrote:

Good Evening Mark,


Thank youfor taking the time to perform the tests, complete the forms and email those back to us. You have a beautiful back yard and I love the fire and water feature. Very cool!!

NOTE: The first three photos attached to this email areconfidential and proprietary to Latham and the Homeowner.We have permission to share them, however we are not extending that permissionto you or any other parties. They are being sent to you strictly for the purpose of clarifying the answer to your questions regarding the discoloration of your pool shell.

The pool in these three photos was errantly operated for approximately two and a half months at extremely high chlorine levels, high pH levels, etc which created an extremely caustic environment. The extreme discoloration of the surface of this pool and the skimmer faceplate demonstrate the effect on the pool surface when the water is not kept within the industry standards set forth by the Association Pool and Spa Professionals (APSP). Simply stated, the reason the surface of the pool and the skimmer faceplate (each of which are made of different materials and manufactured by different manufacturers) are both discolored is that they were oxidized by the water. This oxidation/discoloration is cosmetic in nature only and does not affect the structural integrity of the pool shell. In the photo “Oxidized sanded,” you can see where the top layer of the pool surface that was oxidized, has been sanded away and the original color of the gelcoat is now visible.

This is caused by caustic water (high in pH and chlorine) and in most of the cases, but not all, the pool is equipped with a salt chlorine generator. When the salt water passes by the electrode, sodium hypochlorite (household bleach) and sodium hydroxide (caustic soda/lye) are produced. Household bleach has a pH of approximately 12.6 and caustic soda has a pH of approximately 13.5. The production of these two chemicals in a pool with a salt chlorine generator will cause the pH to constantly drift upwards out of the industry standard acceptable range of 7.2 – 7.6.

The pH scale is logarithmic and as a result, each whole pH value below 7 is ten times more acidic than the next higher value. For example, pH 6 is ten times more acidic than pH 7 and pH 5 is 100 times more acidic than pH 7 and pH 4 is 1,000 times more acidic than pH 7. Moving in the other direction, pH 8 is ten times more caustic than pH 7 and pH 9 is 100 times for caustic than pH 7 and pH 10 is 1,000 times more caustic than pH 7.

Considering the high pH values attributed to sodium hypochlorite and sodium hydroxide noted above, we can easily understand how a very caustic environment can be created in a swimming pool with a salt chlorine generator. Also, In most cases, the chlorine level exceeds the industry standard of 1 – 3 ppm (parts per million). This is detrimental to everything the water comes in contact with; the pool surface, fittings, and most importantly the people swimming in it.

The otherphotos are of your pool. By comparing these photos of your pool to the first three photos of the other pool, you can see similarities in:
1.the whiteness of the discoloration both when it is wet and when it is dry
2.the discoloration can be removed by sanding with sandpaper
3.the mottled look and waviness of the discoloration in certain areas
The discoloration of your pool surface is not as severe as the other pool but the similarities are apparent. Again, this oxidation/discoloration does not affect the structural integrity of the pool shell. Our Limited Lifetime Warranty does not cover fading, staining or discoloration due to water chemistry as we are unable to control whether or not the water is properly kept in balance.
How can the color of your shell be restored? The entire shell could be sanded to remove the oxidized surface but the process is slow, frustrating and laborious. A better solution would be to resurface the pool with a material called Aquabright/Polyfibro. We have the capability of performing this resurfacing. There are also independent contractors that use this material to resurface swimming pools. This is a very robust material, the process works very well in the field and it typically takes about four to five days to complete the work. It is not inexpensive. Our cost to resurface your shell would be in the $8,000.00 range. You can view this material at the following website:http://www.ecopoolfinish.com/aquabright/. Both the Aquabright and the Polyfibro are compatible with a fiberglass pool.

Please reply to this email and/or call me on my mobile number (931-703-3282) and let’s discuss the information above and work together towards a resolution.

Sincerely,

Rick


Rick Black
Director-Warranty/Field Services-Fiberglass Division
Business Development Manager–Southeastern US
P:931-438-4744| F:931-438-9647| C:931-703-3282
[email protected]


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“You cannot talk yourself out of problems, you behave
yourself into."
Dr. Stephen Covey- 7 Habits of Highly Effective People








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Texas Splash

Mod Squad
TFP Expert
LifeTime Supporter
Re: White scale in fibreglass pool

For what it's worth, that reply above in post #69 is the EXACT reply I received (word for word I believe) from the same POC at Latham who oversee Viking pools. When I questioned a couple comments within that reply, I received no reply, nor does it really matter at this point since they obviously have no intention of helping pool owners who don't have pool store records from day 1. See the irony there? Pool store records from a place that notoriously gives-out questionable results and advice?
 

keithw

Well-known member
Mar 30, 2007
309
Virginia Beach
I thought I would chime in on this post since I have had the same issue in my white CPC/Viking FG pool twice now. It first popped up two springs ago. Never saw it last year but it came back this spring about a week ago. The pool looks nice and clear until you get it and start rubbing the sides of it. Then you can see a white powder coming off and if there is enough activity the whole pool will soon look a bit like milk. I took care of it the same way that I did two years ago. A foam sanding pad and elbow grease. Then a half qt of clarifier, run the pump overnight and it is crystal clear the next day. Backwash and odds are it doesn't comes back again that season. For CL the last time it occurred I was using bleach and a Liquidator. This time I was using the LQ and tabs (my CYA is low so I am also using tabs until it moves up). I did some measurements in my pool this time when it showed up and I do not think that it could be calcium scale. At least not in my pool. My calcium level is very low, like 30ppm. My alk was fine 70ish and PH was perfect. One thing that I did have for a number of days before I noticed the issue was very high CL. Like 20ppm. I am thinking that it is either dead algae or phosphates. And that maybe the extreme high CL killed it off and caused the buildup. In any event I would recommend against acid and definitely against getting a new gelcoat.
 

Texas Splash

Mod Squad
TFP Expert
LifeTime Supporter
That's interesting Keith. You and couple other people, either way back in this thread or another FB thread, comment on being able to see stuff come off the shell by wiping your finger across it. Mine has never done that though. But you mention something that I've been reading up more on after receiving some feedback from one of our experts in the field, and that's phosphates. While we don't give much attention to phosphate here at TFP as algae food, there seems to be a growing interest in their involvement in becoming "calcium phosphate". So in pools we think of calcium carbonate, silicate and now phosphate. In either case, the slightly elevated CH level is propagated by an elevated pH level that begins the process. Interesting that with a CH of only 30, you wouldn't imagine what you had on the shell was calcium trying to precipitate. That baffles me.
 

YippeeSkippy

Mod Squad
LifeTime Supporter
Jan 17, 2012
13,856
Evans, Georgia
I've seen some odd "discoloration" on my deep blue fiberglass pool now. It almost looks like white liquid was poured down the side of the pool. Like "pour" marks from milk? Nothing rubs off though, and *nothing* has been poured into the pool like that.

It is on all three sides, less the steps which take up the entire 4th side. My CH is 240ppm.

Also you can't see them unless you're in the pool with a snorkle on, as they're all under the water surface.

Maddie :flower:
 

keithw

Well-known member
Mar 30, 2007
309
Virginia Beach
Texas Splash,

I had assumed that since my CH is only 30, there was not really enough CH to create the "scale" buildup that I experienced. Are you suggesting that perhaps my CH is low because all of my has in fact adhered to the wall? That might be a possibility.
 

Texas Splash

Mod Squad
TFP Expert
LifeTime Supporter
Are you suggesting that perhaps my CH is low because all of my has in fact adhered to the wall? That might be a possibility.
Not really. I just found it interesting that with a low CH you could even have a scale issue at all. If anything, with a CH of only 30, I wouldn't be surprised if you said you noticed some staining on the shell, but not calcium precipitation to the shell. With a CH of only 30, the calcium should be just fine in a soluble state within the water and not overloaded to the point it needed to find a new home (shell).
 

keithw

Well-known member
Mar 30, 2007
309
Virginia Beach
OK that is was my thoughts as well. That is why I was leaning towards it being some type of phosphate related flare up. The fact that it normally happens in early spring leads me to suspect that as well since I keep my pool open all winter and generally have leaves and other stuff getting into the pool over the winter. I do keep it clear and cleaned but there is no denying that I get alot of plant matter in the pool in the fall/winter and then in early spring I usually start heavy with the CL.
 

mkrch13

New member
Oct 15, 2018
1
Elmhurst, IL
Checking in on this thread as I too have this staining around my pool. As another described, it looks like someone poured something white around the edges and you can see the pattern of it dripping down. I called the manufacturer about it earlier this summer and he seemed truly puzzled like he'd never heard anything like it before. lol. I can see here that it is not uncommon. In any case, I also called my pool store and they said that the manufacturer rep came out to the house and looked at it and rubbed lemon juice on it as a test spot and it came off. Given the extensive work you've all done, I'm reluctant to believe when I get home later today that a lemon is going to take it all off but I'll report back!

I also have darkening on the bottom of my pool that you can see when the sun is shining, it looks like someone used a roller on the bottom of it and you can see the paint marks from rolling on color. That's been there since the start but never bothered me that much because there are only a few spots.

As the original poster indicated putting in a sparkle pill, it is odd I also noticed it first this summer after having put in BioGuard Sparkle Up liquid.

However, due to bad advice and faulty equipment, I have also had excessively high levels of chlorine at times, so I suspect that would put me in the void category with the manufacturer. Anyway, my pool looks like a filthy black car because of this white stuff all over it. :(
 

Mslc10

Member
Jun 27, 2015
21
Bulverde, tx
Hi guys! Just checking in..... I have given up on the aggressive action with sandpaper. I figure I will live with it until I decide to re do the pool.i believe tile guys didn’t know how to install tile ...they used some sort of white adhesive, I guessing just tube and tile caulk since the tile is coming off in places. White adhesive on back of tile just rubs off. So a coating will probably my choice when and if I get to that point.

I believe I have slowed the calcium coating by only adding softened water when needed. The acid job did nothing. Only sanding worked but I don’t have that energy anymore.
But if anyone knows of a tiki bar company please hit me up at [email protected]. I need about an 8ft by 6ft L-shaped bar...