Bought a house with a saltwater pool. I brought someone from a local pool company for pool school, he gave me some ranges for the water. I dropped off a water test at my local Leslie's and got some different ideal ranges, I looked at poollogger.com, another set of ranges. I downloaded the poolmath app and plan on using that one moving forward, and saw different ranges. Which one of these should I trust? Is there some universal range I should be basing everything off?
Which ranges should I trust?
- Thread starter badaboom423
- Start date
Hey Boom and welcome !! While *some*variance is completely acceptable, Nobody ever left here and became a big supporter of Leslies or the other ones. 230k+ folks have left the others to come here.
check out this thread, If Leslies, etc can do better I will go join them with you.
Some of these members are new and have achieved what they did within days of adopting the TFP method.
www.troublefreepool.com
check out this thread, If Leslies, etc can do better I will go join them with you.
Some of these members are new and have achieved what they did within days of adopting the TFP method. How Clear is TFP Clear? Let's See (Pics Only Please).
How clear should my water be? A very common question. Here is mine on a calm morning where I could finally vacuum. Yes I know, I'm still manually vacuuming. It took me 7 years to finally get an SWG, I'm working on a robot. :) So now let's see your water clarity.
www.troublefreepool.com
Well duh! Trust ours!!! 
Before anything, please allow me to welcome you to TFP!! We’re glad you found us.
Rather than simply saying “trust this” I’d like the opportunity to explain to you why you should follow a set of targets and help you move in the right direction. Is there a certain set of numbers that has you the most confused?
Before anything, please allow me to welcome you to TFP!! We’re glad you found us.
Rather than simply saying “trust this” I’d like the opportunity to explain to you why you should follow a set of targets and help you move in the right direction. Is there a certain set of numbers that has you the most confused?
Well, first I was confused about the difference in ranges between sites. I assumed there would be like a gold standard that everyone followed, but I guess not. They're mostly similar, so I don't think it's a big deal. Total alkalinity is the biggest discrepancy, with Leslie's and the pool company I brought in saying 80-120ppm, but poolMath says 50-90. I know Leslie's is kind of a big chain so I trust them less than this community of actual pool owners, but was just curious about the difference in ranges.Well duh! Trust ours!!!
Before anything, please allow me to welcome you to TFP!! We’re glad you found us.
Rather than simply saying “trust this” I’d like the opportunity to explain to you why you should follow a set of targets and help you move in the right direction. Is there a certain set of numbers that has you the most confused?
In terms of chlorinepoolMath lists Free Chlorine, but doesn't include Total Chlorine (which I guess is the same as combined chlorine)
Leslie's also said phosphates were high, which I don't see in the poolMath app, although I was reading a post here about the basic and it said I shouldn't care about that, regardless of what the pool stores say, so I have to do some more research on that. Also, the Leslie test shows iron and copper, should I also not worry so much about that? They said my copper levels were high
Great reply Boom, there is a lot to unpack here so I’ll get started with what I can help with.
once your water is clear, or if the metal levels aren’t too high right now, we will steer you away from anything that makes it worse.
if you properly use chlorine to sanitize at TFP recommendations, algae cannot grow regardless of how much algae food is in the water. Which renders the phosphate test a moot point.
**edit because I forgot the most important part**. We have nothing to sell you but good will and comradery among fellow pool folks so you will never need to question our ‘alterior motives’.
Iron comes from fill water, most often with the people who use a well but there are some municipal feeds with some iron in them. Copper comes from the Algecides and ‘Mineral systems’ (Frog, Nature2, etc) that the Pool stores and builders push. They create problems (green stains to pool and people) and then you have to drain and they get to charge you to treat the fresh water, and start adding all the copper again.
once your water is clear, or if the metal levels aren’t too high right now, we will steer you away from anything that makes it worse.
Pretty much.
We generally don’t chase TA unless the PH is all over the place. For most pools, TA will find it’s ‘happy place’ and sit there. The pool store sells you fancy marked up chemicals to chase a TA #, which also messes up your PH, and then they sell you stuff for that too, which messes up the TA #, and HEY LOOK !!! They can sell you something to fix your TA.
So the other day I thought of comparing phosphates to dog food. Leslies says that if I have dog food that I will end up with a dog, when the truth is, I won’t have a dog unless I go get one. It won’t magically appear because I bought some dog food. So if you have 15 cases of dog food in your pantry, it really doesn’t matter. It only matters if you become a hoarder of dog food with an 18 wheelers worth in your living room. Even if that is the case, the dog food *STILL* won’t magically produce a dog, your problems are hoarding and not the dog.
if you properly use chlorine to sanitize at TFP recommendations, algae cannot grow regardless of how much algae food is in the water. Which renders the phosphate test a moot point.
**edit because I forgot the most important part**. We have nothing to sell you but good will and comradery among fellow pool folks so you will never need to question our ‘alterior motives’.
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This has been so helpful so far, glad I found this site!
As for copper, Leslie's listed the range at 0-0.2ppm, mine is at 0.4. Is there anything I should do to reduce that?
I have had .4 in my pool for years without problems. But all pools react different so I don’t want to assure you that being slightly high is fine 100% of the time. Only that it’s possible to not matter.
going forward do not add any copper based algecides. Also no products that have the word blue in the name. Blue almost always means it’s got copper.
Welcome to the forum 
At some point in your research, you are gonna' have to bite the bullet and choose to follow one source for your pool water management.
Trying to mix and blend the varying advice simply doesn't work..........I promise, many have tried, ALL have failed.
At some point in your research, you are gonna' have to bite the bullet and choose to follow one source for your pool water management.
Trying to mix and blend the varying advice simply doesn't work..........I promise, many have tried, ALL have failed.
I want to say welcome also.
I will just point out that while the most common source of copper is algecides, Do you have a heater? Pool water kept out of the ideal range for pH can become corrosive and eat away at the copper in the heater.
To quote Dave here at TFP:
Please edit your signature and add the following information so we can better frame our answers to you.
https://www.troublefreepool.com/account/signature
First, understand yo are not alone. I bought a house with a 23,000 gallon in ground gunite (concrete) pool and had no idea how to take care of it. Like you, we find that many times people turn to friends/relatives with a pool or the local pool store to "learn" how to take care of it. The friends/relatives generally can tell you how they take care of those, but generally don't have a depth of knowledge to say why what they do works or maybe doesn't work. Again, like yourselves many people show up here thinking that an outbreak of algae once or twice a year is "normal" and that you drain and refill your pool evey couple of years because the water gets "stale". I'm here to tell you , both ar false.
First, pool store employees primary goal is to sell stuff, not necessarily get your pool in perfect condition. As to whether that is because of improper training, lack of knowledge or just to sell stuff I will leave up to you. While you would think that a "professional" would be the best, unfortunately in most cases it is quite the opposite. Between employees who blindly trust the word of chemical sales representatives and high school kids working in the pool store for the summer you end up with poor results from their advice and testing. The pool store want's you to have "a shed filled with white bottles of pool chemicals that had mysterious names and purposes". Unfortunately the pool industry has evolved into sales by scare tactics, misdirection, misinformation and marketing hype. Go in to the store and tell them your Total Alkalinity (TA) is low and they are going to sell you baking soda in a fancy package at four times the cost of WalMart. Do they have a right to make a profit, yes - but lets be reasonable. Heck, even their definition of "low" can many times put you on a pH roller coaster that's hard to get off of. Is that lack of knowledge or a sales technique to sell you more chemicals to control your pH????
What do we propose? We base our pool care system on accurate testing and only adding what the pool needs, when it needs it. Which leads to
TFPC tenet - Never put chemistry in your pool when you do not know the outcome
For almost everything the pool store sells, there is a generic "twin" that you can get at your grocery store or big box store. Alkalinity low like I used as an example? You can go to the pool store and buy Alkalinity Up in a fancy bottle or you can stop by Walmart and pick up baking soda.
So, to control your pool you need to know what is going on. Many folks have a Saturday morning ritual, dip a bottle of water out of the pool and take it to the pool store (they give you the bottle for free). They test it and sell you what they say you need to "fix" what ails your pool. But, you will find not much credence is given to pool store testing around here. While you would think that a "professional" would be the best, unfortunately in most cases it is quite the opposite. Plus, the results of their "testing" is used to convince you that you need to buy things. Why do you think that testing is free?
But, what can you do?? You need your own accurate test kit! Order a TF-100 Test Kit ™. The only other real option for a test kit is a Taylor K-2006-C. Be careful comparing prices because the K-2006 comes in sizes, designated by a letter. The basic K-2006 has .75oz bottles. You need to get the K-2006-C to get the larger bottles that you want. Even then it is a little short on the reagent & powder for the FAS/DPD test.
While entirely optional, I also have the Speedstir Magnetic Stirrer and Sample Sizer Measuring Tool. They speed testing and accuracy.
Please don't go to a pool store for a test kit. To effectively practice the TFPC methods, the FAS/DPD chlorine test is essential. The TF-100 Test Kit ™ and the K-2006 have this test while very few other kits do. The kits sold at the pool store generally won't won't cut it, but be careful pool store employees are known to say “it's the same thing”. Generally it's not!
How much Pool School have you read? Start with these:
www.troublefreepool.com
www.troublefreepool.com
www.troublefreepool.com
www.troublefreepool.com
I will just point out that while the most common source of copper is algecides, Do you have a heater? Pool water kept out of the ideal range for pH can become corrosive and eat away at the copper in the heater.
To quote Dave here at TFP:
Please edit your signature and add the following information so we can better frame our answers to you.
https://www.troublefreepool.com/account/signature
- List what test kit you use to test your water
- The size of your pool in gallons
- If your pool is an AG (above ground) or IG (in ground)
- If it's IG, tell us if it's vinyl, plaster/pebble, or fiberglass
- The type filter you have (sand, DE, cartridge)
- If you know, tell us the make and model of your pump and filter.
- List any other equipment you have: SWG, second pump, etc.
- Please mention if you fill the pool from a well or are currently on water restrictions
- Mention if you fill the pool from a well or are currently on water restrictions
First, understand yo are not alone. I bought a house with a 23,000 gallon in ground gunite (concrete) pool and had no idea how to take care of it. Like you, we find that many times people turn to friends/relatives with a pool or the local pool store to "learn" how to take care of it. The friends/relatives generally can tell you how they take care of those, but generally don't have a depth of knowledge to say why what they do works or maybe doesn't work. Again, like yourselves many people show up here thinking that an outbreak of algae once or twice a year is "normal" and that you drain and refill your pool evey couple of years because the water gets "stale". I'm here to tell you , both ar false.
First, pool store employees primary goal is to sell stuff, not necessarily get your pool in perfect condition. As to whether that is because of improper training, lack of knowledge or just to sell stuff I will leave up to you. While you would think that a "professional" would be the best, unfortunately in most cases it is quite the opposite. Between employees who blindly trust the word of chemical sales representatives and high school kids working in the pool store for the summer you end up with poor results from their advice and testing. The pool store want's you to have "a shed filled with white bottles of pool chemicals that had mysterious names and purposes". Unfortunately the pool industry has evolved into sales by scare tactics, misdirection, misinformation and marketing hype. Go in to the store and tell them your Total Alkalinity (TA) is low and they are going to sell you baking soda in a fancy package at four times the cost of WalMart. Do they have a right to make a profit, yes - but lets be reasonable. Heck, even their definition of "low" can many times put you on a pH roller coaster that's hard to get off of. Is that lack of knowledge or a sales technique to sell you more chemicals to control your pH????
What do we propose? We base our pool care system on accurate testing and only adding what the pool needs, when it needs it. Which leads to
TFPC tenet - Never put chemistry in your pool when you do not know the outcome
For almost everything the pool store sells, there is a generic "twin" that you can get at your grocery store or big box store. Alkalinity low like I used as an example? You can go to the pool store and buy Alkalinity Up in a fancy bottle or you can stop by Walmart and pick up baking soda.
So, to control your pool you need to know what is going on. Many folks have a Saturday morning ritual, dip a bottle of water out of the pool and take it to the pool store (they give you the bottle for free). They test it and sell you what they say you need to "fix" what ails your pool. But, you will find not much credence is given to pool store testing around here. While you would think that a "professional" would be the best, unfortunately in most cases it is quite the opposite. Plus, the results of their "testing" is used to convince you that you need to buy things. Why do you think that testing is free?
But, what can you do?? You need your own accurate test kit! Order a TF-100 Test Kit ™. The only other real option for a test kit is a Taylor K-2006-C. Be careful comparing prices because the K-2006 comes in sizes, designated by a letter. The basic K-2006 has .75oz bottles. You need to get the K-2006-C to get the larger bottles that you want. Even then it is a little short on the reagent & powder for the FAS/DPD test.
While entirely optional, I also have the Speedstir Magnetic Stirrer and Sample Sizer Measuring Tool. They speed testing and accuracy.
Please don't go to a pool store for a test kit. To effectively practice the TFPC methods, the FAS/DPD chlorine test is essential. The TF-100 Test Kit ™ and the K-2006 have this test while very few other kits do. The kits sold at the pool store generally won't won't cut it, but be careful pool store employees are known to say “it's the same thing”. Generally it's not!
How much Pool School have you read? Start with these:
ABC's of Pool Water Chemistry
There are several items things every pool owner should know about swimming pool water. We share details on the basics of Pool Water Chemistry.
www.troublefreepool.com
Recommended Pool Chemicals
Which should I buy? TFP's recommended pool chemicals are cheap, easy, and won't unbalance your pool water.
www.troublefreepool.com
How to Chlorinate Your Pool
Before chlorinating your pool, you should know these simple tips. Learn the best way to add chlorine to your pool.
www.troublefreepool.com
The Free Chlorine and Cyanuric Acid Relationship
Managing your cyanuric acid and Free Chlorine levels is key to stabilizing your pool. Learn how these two items affect each other.
www.troublefreepool.com
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Great info, I don't have a heater, I did see some algae killer container half full in the crawlspace, so it's safe to assume that was put in recently. Will that copper go down naturally with time, or do I need to lower it somehow?
The copper only leaves the water with splashout or other water leaving the pool (not evaporation). It doesn't naturally degrade like many chemicals do.
So what are my options to get rid of it? Drain it? Will it be bad if I just leave it there?
Of course it depends on the concentration. If it tests .3 ppm or less, that is a good indication it will do no harm. Much over that, and there is a chance it can stain.....and a bad stain at that.....tough to get rid of.
Consider a partial drain and refill but certainly test for it first.
Yeah, I think it would if it was my pool. I would get another test to see if they pretty much agree (remember, pool store testing of ANY kind is a potential source of trouble) and if there was no big discrepancy, I would drain half the pool to get that copper down to .2ppm
A copper stain is REALLY difficult to deal with so I don't think I would take the chance.
A copper stain is REALLY difficult to deal with so I don't think I would take the chance.
DeanP66
0
If your CYA and CH levels are high as well, you can kill multiple birds with the same stone (partial drain). Those two levels and salt as well can only be reduced with dilution (partial drain and refill).
DeanP66
0
Is that from your own testing or what the pool store testing spit out? I wouldn't trust their readings. That's why we recommend everyone get their own test kit and test their own water. Either the TF100 or the Taylor K2006C are the only way to go. I had already bought the Taylor K2006C before I found this site so that's all I ever use, but it appears you get more of the chemicals you use the most with the TF100. Either kit is excellent.
If your CYA and (or) CH levels are low, you can always raise them very easily by adding stabilizer or calcium chloride. Lowering them is the difficult part.
If your CYA and (or) CH levels are low, you can always raise them very easily by adding stabilizer or calcium chloride. Lowering them is the difficult part.
Those are all from the pool store, my k2006 actually arrived yesterday but still haven't tested things, seems simple but I need to read up on how to actually do it
Wobblerlorri
Bronze Supporter
- Apr 16, 2019
- 2,010
- Pool Size
- 4024
- Surface
- Vinyl
- Chlorine
- Liquid Chlorine
There is a misconception I want to clear up. Total Chlorine TC is not Combined Chloramines CC. TC= FC free chlorine, tested with a FAS-DPD kit + CC. So you can subtract your FC from TC to get CC, or CC from TC to get FC.