Which Jack's Magic to use in salt pool?

[Saturn94]

I've been using the Purple Stuff successfully for years in my salt pool. Over on the Pool Forum (recently disappeared!) it was mentioned that the Pink Stuff is about twice as concentrated as the Purple stuff (60% vs 30%). They didn't seem to indicate there was any other difference besides concentration. Can anyone here confirm this?

Jack's Magic indicates that the Purple stuff is specifically designed for salt pools, but I can't find anything that explains what's different that makes it more suitable for salt pools than say the Pink Stuff.

I'm thinking if the Pink Stuff is twice as concentrated and suitable for salt pools, I can use it instead of the Purple Stuff and use half the dose I usually add, saving me money. Am I correct?

Thoughts? Can I safely/effectively use the Pink Stuff instead of the Purple Stuff in my salt pool? Or is there something else you would recommend?

Some history:

Our pool was installed in 2004. It came with an Aqua Rite SWCG, so it's been a salt pool from day one. Being our first pool and not knowing any better, the first few years we always followed the pool store's advice. As you can imagine, we kept having to fight the start of algae blooms (slick liner, but no green pool), so the pool store recommended using an algaecide which I later learned contained copper. Of course this led staining later on, so I started using Jack's Magic Purple stuff, which has kept my pool stain free ever since. Btw, I stopped using the copper algaecide and switch to 60% polyquat at the same time I started using the Purple Stuff.

Fast forward a few years....after being frustrated, and broke, following the pool store's advice, I hit the internet and landed on the Pool Forum. Following their advice I greatly reduced my maintenance cost and time spent on maintenance. However, I still had the staining issue if I didn't keep adding the Purple Stuff.

Ben had me do a "bucket test" to check for metals (I believe this was in summer 2013). The results were negative for metals. Thinking perhaps over several years of dilution the metals were removed (we get plenty of rain each season), I stopped using the Purple stuff. Unfortunately, staining started to reappear on the steps, so I went back to using the Purple stuff, though I found I could get by with a lower maintenance dose than before.

So I'm thinking I'm always going to have to use a sequestrant, and I'm ok with that, but I'd like to minimize the cost of doing so.


Some things I've noticed:
1. The staining only occurs when running the SWCG. There is a return in the steps, hence probably why I notice staining there first, not to mention the steps are white making stains easier to notice.
2. I've never noticed staining after shocking (SWCG off).
3. I was told by the dealer who installed our pool that this is a natural consequence of using a SWCG since salt always has some impurities (I use high purity salt, 99%+?, with no additives).
4. As long as I add a maintenance dose of the Purple Stuff each week, there's no staining.

Sorry for the long post.

 

[JasonLion]

I have also hears that the pink stuff is more concentrated, but have not been able to confirm it. If you got a sequestrant test kit you could find out for sure.

There are other differences between the various colors, though they are secondary. Each of their products are tuned a little differently, to be more effective in specific situations.

Staining is almost entirely a function of the metal level and the PH. No doubt the SWG is raising the PH due to aeration combined with highish TA, causing more staining than manual dosing, which doesn't cause aeration and thus doesn't tend to affect the PH as much. You can usually prevent, or at least minimize, the PH increase by lowering your TA as much as practical. Or just keep tighter control over the PH.

Salt always has some tiny level of impurities, but those impurities almost never have anything at all to do with metal staining. There is a tiny effect from the higher TDS level, but it will normally be too small to even notice.

 

[Saturn94]

I have also hears that the pink stuff is more concentrated, but have not been able to confirm it. If you got a sequestrant test kit you could find out for sure.

There are other differences between the various colors, though they are secondary. Each of their products are tuned a little differently, to be more effective in specific situations.

Staining is almost entirely a function of the metal level and the PH. No doubt the SWG is raising the PH due to aeration combined with highish TA, causing more staining than manual dosing, which doesn't cause aeration and thus doesn't tend to affect the PH as much. You can usually prevent, or at least minimize, the PH increase by lowering your TA as much as practical. Or just keep tighter control over the PH.

Salt always has some tiny level of impurities, but those impurities almost never have anything at all to do with metal staining. There is a tiny effect from the higher TDS level, but it will normally be too small to even notice.

Thanks for the feedback.

I guess I should have mentioned that I keep TA about 80 and pH stays about 7.6/7.7 It never seems to reach 7.8. Since lowering TA several seasons ago and maintaining borates 50-60, pH remains very stable all season.

I use to keep TA 100-110 until it was suggested on the PF that I lower it to reduce how much acid I had to add each week (I was going through quite a bit). They also suggested I not adjust pH until it got above 7.8 (I was trying to maintain 7.4/7.5 ish). Since making those adjustments I haven't had to add any acid even with the SWCG running!

Perhaps the pH coming from the return in the steps is a bit higher when it first comes out? Maybe that explains why it always shows up first on the steps?

Should I try lowering TA further? Go back to trying to maintain lower pH by adding muriatuc acid regularly (I really don't miss handling that stuff!)? Both?

Frankly, I've about given up trying to figure out exactly why this is happening and accepting that I'll just have to keep using preventive measures (ie Jack's Magic). So the question is how to do so while minimizing expense, hence the idea of switching to the Pink Stuff, assuming it is more concentrated and it's ok to use in a salt pool.

I do still have the sequest test kit that I bought, although the tablets and solution are pretty old (I'll check on ordering fresh). Once I figured out how much my pool needed each week I stopped testing the sequest level.

Thanks again for the advice.

 

[Saturn94]

I asked Jack's Magic about the difference between the Pink and Purple Stuff. They said in a high TDS pool, like a salt pool, the Pink Stuff would be expended at a greater rate than the Purple Stuff which is specifically designed to be more efficient in a high TDS pool.

- - - Updated - - -

Thanks for the feedback.

I guess I should have mentioned that I keep TA about 80 and pH stays about 7.6/7.7 It never seems to reach 7.8. Since lowering TA several seasons ago and maintaining borates 50-60, pH remains very stable all season.

I use to keep TA 100-110 until it was suggested on the PF that I lower it to reduce how much acid I had to add each week (I was going through quite a bit). They also suggested I not adjust pH until it got above 7.8 (I was trying to maintain 7.4/7.5 ish). Since making those adjustments I haven't had to add any acid even with the SWCG running!

Perhaps the pH coming from the return in the steps is a bit higher when it first comes out? Maybe that explains why it always shows up first on the steps?

Should I try lowering TA further? Go back to trying to maintain lower pH by adding muriatuc acid regularly (I really don't miss handling that stuff!)? Both?

Frankly, I've about given up trying to figure out exactly why this is happening and accepting that I'll just have to keep using preventive measures (ie Jack's Magic). So the question is how to do so while minimizing expense, hence the idea of switching to the Pink Stuff, assuming it is more concentrated and it's ok to use in a salt pool.

I do still have the sequest test kit that I bought, although the tablets and solution are pretty old (I'll check on ordering fresh). Once I figured out how much my pool needed each week I stopped testing the sequest level.

Thanks again for the advice.

I'd love some feedback on the additional info I provided in this post.

Thanks.

 

[Divin Dave]

Hi Saturn,
Man thats a long post, but no problem! Make them as long as you want.

I will chime in as much as I can....

First, I find it difficult to believe that you still have metal in your water which causes staining after all these years! With dilution from rain and backwashing, .. not to say it cant happen, but I would think would very unlikely.

Question: Have you tested your fill water to see if there is any metal content in it?

Have you actually had the pool water tested for metals? (this is about the only pool store testing we recommend). If you have any vitamin C tablets, the kind from the pharmacy or vitamin store, you can put one on the stain until it dissolves, and if the stain lightens up, then the stain is metal. If not, then its something else. (BTW, Im not aware of doing a bucket test for metals as you mentioned above).

Also, as to this comment by a dealer, is nonsense. If you use 99% salt, there wont be any staining from the salt or the SWG. I just isnt so.
If it was, there would be 1000s if not 100000s of us with the same problem and simply is not the case.
I was told by the dealer who installed our pool that this is a natural consequence of using a SWCG since salt always has some impurities (I use high purity salt, 99%+?, with no additives).

SWG's do drive up the PH because chlorine is a gas, and that mixed with water will drive up the PH and it would be expected that the Ph directly at the retun would be higher than someplace at the other end of the pool... so, this is definitely one reason the Ph will rise on you.

Driving down the TA a bit more maybe to 60 may help, but in doing so, will also likely effect the happy point of the Ph, but still you should be comfortably in safe range. Dont expect to drive the TA to 60, or even 50, and stay at the happy Ph place you are used to seeing.

FWIW, I have a vinyl pool too and a SWG, whatever I did, I guess I did right, because I have not added any MA to my pool since May last year.
My TA is about 65, and my Ph is stable rock solid at 7.4 to 7.5 and I dont use any borates at all. JasonLion is in the same boat as me with stable Ph.

When you get right down to the nitty gritty, there are a lot of things that can effect the Ph of water. Temperature, pollution, organics such as pollen. grass clippings, fertilizer from fertilizing the yard... and lots more stuff.

Sometimes drifting Ph in a pool is just a fact of life, for whatever reason.