When test kits are not available......

[jokael]

Hi

I have tried to get a hold on the test kits recommended here at TFP, but I'm based in the EU and neither are available for purchase.
When asking a local pool store, I got the response that they are not allowed for private use in EU and can only be purchased for professional use....... (And yes, I could buy them from a US website, but besides the heavy tax on import, I also risk getting the package confiscated by customs and a fine)

I can only get the ones with tablets (or drops that works in the same way), a digital one (which they adviced me against) or the strips. None goes higher than 10 ppm.
I know this goes against the general advice here, but can I use either or am I better off using neither and having my water checked at the store?

 

[ajw22]

Welcome to TFP.

Tell us what specific test kits are available to you and we will assist you in making the best choice. Any kit needs to be able to test the chemicals we care about.

If you are diligent in your pool care and never lose control of your water chemistry you should not need to go over 10 ppm of FC in your testing. In over 20 years I have never needed to deal with algae and go over 10ppm other then when my SWG failed on me.

How many gallons are in your pool? If you do lose control of your water chemistry one option is always to replace the water with clean water.

You can use TFP pool care methods. You just need to be creative in how you work around your testing limitations.

How do you chlorinate your pool? Having a SWG will give you more stable and predictable water chemistry.

 

[jokael]

Welcome to TFP.

Tell us what specific test kits are available to you and we will assist you in making the best choice. Any kit needs to be able to test the chemicals we care about.

If you are diligent in your pool care and never lose control of your water chemistry you should not need to go over 10 ppm of FC in your testing. In over 20 years I have never needed to deal with algae and go over 10ppm other then when my SWG failed on me.

How many gallons are in your pool? If you do lose control of your water chemistry one option is always to replace the water with clean water.

You can use TFP pool care methods. You just need to be creative in how you work around your testing limitations.

How do you chlorinate your pool? Having a SWG will give you more stable and predictable water chemistry.

Hi

We have tests like these:
Pool Test Strips | Køb bl.a. Klor Test Strips Online Her
or these:
Test Kits til Pool & Spa - Køb online | Total Poolservice

I believe I need to SLAM my pool - very cloudy, greenish water with pump running 24/7.
I use liquid chlorine 5%
The pool is about 5.200 gallons (20.000 liters)

 

[ajw22]

You definitely do not want test strips.

Tell us more about the type of pool you have.

Post pics of your pool and equipment.

Read about the simplified management we recommend of a small seasonal pool - Guide for Seasonal/Temporary Pools

While your pool is larger, due to your circumstances, those methods may be best for you.

 

[jokael]

You definitely do not want test strips.

Tell us more about the type of pool you have.

Post pics of your pool and equipment.

Read about the simplified management we recommend of a small seasonal pool - Guide for Seasonal/Temporary Pools

While your pool is larger, due to your circumstances, those methods may be best for you.

It is an above ground, steel pool with a sand filter similar to this:
https://www.proshop.dk/Pools-og-Bad...MIpfCWlJzP_wIVayEGAB3iMQZtEAQYAiABEgKinPD_BwE
It is heated by 2 solar panels like these:
Vakuum solfanger med 30 rør
Connected to the pool between the pump and the return inlet.

I looked at the guide you linked to, but since I only fit one of the criterias (the one with wrinkle-free liner - although ours has quite a few wrinkles ) I figured it was not for me.
We have had it up since 2018 - only topping up water when needed.
The other years we had a cover on and managed to get the water sparkly very fast, but this time the cover blew off during a fall storm, and when we noticed after a few weeks (home from vacation), the damage was already done and we decided to leave it and deal with it in the spring. Which was about a month ago.

 

[mgtfp]

Interesting, never heard about drop tests not being allowed for private use on the EU. It might be worth finding the actual regulations for that, not sure how reliable the pool store recommendations are on that.

There have been users from Europe ordering Taylor kits from this store in Spain:

Productos de análisis: Serie 2000 Taylor - Analizar Agua

analizaragua.es

They also seem to sell individual Taylor reagents:

Productos de análisis: Reactivos Taylor - Analizar Agua

analizaragua.es

An option for TA and CH testing are aquarium test kits. TA indicators require chlorine removal, but the required Sodium Thiosulfate chlorine remover is usually not included in aquarium test kits, but you may be able to buy that separately.

There recently was a member from the UK who ended up getting aquarium kits for TA and CH, from post #24 in this thread:

UK Indoor Pool Refurbishment

 

[jokael]

Interesting, never heard about drop tests not being allowed for private use on the EU. It might be worth finding the actual regulations for that, not sure how reliable the pool store recommendations are on that.

There have been users from Europe ordering Taylor kits from this store in Spain:

Productos de análisis: Serie 2000 Taylor - Analizar Agua

analizaragua.es

They also seem to sell individual Taylor reagents:

Productos de análisis: Reactivos Taylor - Analizar Agua

analizaragua.es

An option for TA and CH testing are aquarium test kits. TA indicators require chlorine removal, but the required Sodium Thiosulfate chlorine remover is usually not included in aquarium test kits, but you may be able to buy that separately.

There recently was a member from the UK who ended up getting aquarium kits for TA and CH, from post #24 in this thread:

UK Indoor Pool Refurbishment

Thanks for the tips about Spain - I have also looked online and only seemed to find the kits on US stores - then I checked with the pool store who told me that they could order them for professional testing, but not for sale in EU.
Regarding UK users - they are not in the EU, so they may have totally different options for buying.....
I will definitely consider the Spanish option.

 

[jokael]

Interesting, never heard about drop tests not being allowed for private use on the EU. It might be worth finding the actual regulations for that, not sure how reliable the pool store recommendations are on that.

There have been users from Europe ordering Taylor kits from this store in Spain:

Productos de análisis: Serie 2000 Taylor - Analizar Agua

analizaragua.es

They also seem to sell individual Taylor reagents:

Productos de análisis: Reactivos Taylor - Analizar Agua

analizaragua.es

An option for TA and CH testing are aquarium test kits. TA indicators require chlorine removal, but the required Sodium Thiosulfate chlorine remover is usually not included in aquarium test kits, but you may be able to buy that separately.

There recently was a member from the UK who ended up getting aquarium kits for TA and CH, from post #24 in this thread:

UK Indoor Pool Refurbishment

I did some research……. The Spain site only ships to Spain and Portugal.
The reason being that the kits are considered dangerous goods and thus have a lot of shipping restrictions.
I then called my pool store and asked them to clarify - and their response was somewhat similar; due to the chemicals in the set, they are limited to professional use - which is also why they are almost impossible to find on any EU-sites.
I only found one, but that required a company-ID to purchase

 

[reggiehammond]

Sounds like a good reason for a holiday in Spain!

 

[mgtfp]

Thanks for the tips about Spain - I have also looked online and only seemed to find the kits on US stores - then I checked with the pool store who told me that they could order them for professional testing, but not for sale in EU.
Regarding UK users - they are not in the EU, so they may have totally different options for buying.....
I will definitely consider the Spanish option.

I only mentioned the UK user because of the aquarium option for TA and CH to give you some ideas what to look for, and because I had done some explanations in that thread regarding conversion from aquarium typical units to pool typical units. Also read what we discussed about the Poollab photometer (German, I think) in that thread. Seems to work kind of for CYA and FC (if not too high), but not really for TA and CH.

I know that German company Sera for example makes an Alkalinity test kit for aquariums, you just needed a chlorine neutraliser - but even a drop of Peroxide might do the trick (I might try that next time I run tests).

I did some research……. The Spain site only ships to Spain and Portugal.
The reason being that the kits are considered dangerous goods and thus have a lot of shipping restrictions.
I then called my pool store and asked them to clarify - and their response was somewhat similar; due to the chemicals in the set, they are limited to professional use - which is also why they are almost impossible to find on any EU-sites.
I only found one, but that required a company-ID to purchase

I some times import Taylor reagents from the US into Australia. Sometimes it's just one reagent that they can't ship. I never had issues with the FAS/DPD reagents (R-0870 and R-0871). Is there a chance that the Spain site ships at least some of the reagents?

 

[jokael]

I only mentioned the UK user because of the aquarium option for TA and CH to give you some ideas what to look for, and because I had done some explanations in that thread regarding conversion from aquarium typical units to pool typical units. Also read what we discussed about the Poollab photometer (German, I think) in that thread. Seems to work kind of for CYA and FC (if not too high), but not really for TA and CH.

I know that German company Sera for example makes an Alkalinity test kit for aquariums, you just needed a chlorine neutraliser - but even a drop of Peroxide might do the trick (I might try that next time I run tests).




I some times import Taylor reagents from the US into Australia. Sometimes it's just one reagent that they can't ship. I never had issues with the FAS/DPD reagents (R-0870 and R-0871). Is there a chance that the Spain site ships at least some of the reagents?

It’s worth checking
Thanks
I’ll also take a closer look at the poollab photometer - Germany is not that far away.

 

[jokael]

Ok, from a "you gotta work with what you've got"-approach, here is what I've done so far:

The issue is light blue water - not a hint of green - but cloudy.
I can see the bottom of the pool when it has been untouched over night.

As the good test kits are not available - and I still haven't figured out how to get the next best, I have gone with the third (or maybe even lower) best: The plexiglass box with dpd and phenol-red tablets.

In the below I'll use the values I found most likely compared to the colour of my test box. Perhaps they are not correct, but I'll try to be consistent and I have numbered my reference colours so I'll use the same every time.

2 days ago, I tested the water in the evening. For cya I only have the strips........ but 3 different brands for comparison.
They all said between 20 and 30, so I went with 30.
PH: 7.3
DPD1/free chlorine showed a bit over 10 ppm (not much but need to learn how to dilute to measure higher) Let's say 11
DPD4/total chlorine showed a very small bit darker than free chlorine. Let's say 11.5
I used purple colouring pencils from my professional set to document the shade number (very scientific....... ), and there was a slight shade difference

Based on this and the fact that the pool probably could do with a SLAM, i added 630 ml of 5% liquid chlorine as per PoolMath, to ensure I'd reach the 12 ppm SLAM level, even if I read the numbers a bit too high.

Next morning:
Free and total chlorine showed the exact same shade (I tried several different for comparison) and both identical to Total chlorine from the night before. Let's call that 11.5
I added 200 ml of 5% liquid.

Next evening (I'll just go with numbers now)
TC: 10 exactly
FC: 10 Exactly

I added the 630 ml again to get to SLAM level.

This morning
Both TC and FC are at 11.5

So even though the numbers might be not accurate, they show that the chlorine levels are relatively stable and high and lowers most in the daytime.

The pump runs 24/7
I brush the sides and vacuum the bottom every evening.
When I vacuum, the pump goes to high pressure and loses suction a few times while vacuuming until I backwash.
The water that comes out from this is very white/opague.

When I start vacuuming, a lot of dust comes up and turns the water very cloudy and I cannot see the bottom until the next morning.

So - based on my stone-age way of testing - Is there anything else I should do (when getting a good test kit is not an option atm)? Or should I just keep going like this?

 

[mgtfp]

That does sound like dead algae that's clouding up your pool. Lots of filtering to do.

Only time will tell if your "as best as you can" SLAM will work.

Where does that DPD test max out? I though they usually only go up to 10? At some point they also get bleached out and look like zero, even though FC is actually high.

Does the phenol red test give you an FC range where it works? Phenol red turns into Chlorphenol red when FC is too high, which does the yellow to red transition well below pH 7, and normal pool pH always looks like pH above 8. The Taylor pH test has a special formulation so it works up to about FC 10. Most other phenol reds stop working already at lower pH, so I'm a bit surprised to see pH 7.3 at FC 11.

It might be worth playing round with dilution with distilled water a bit, and see if your test results are consistent with dilution. If you start with FC 10, then a 1:1 dilution should show FC 5, and a 1:3 dilution FC 2.5.

 

[jokael]

That does sound like dead algae that's clouding up your pool. Lots of filtering to do.

Only time will tell if your "as best as you can" SLAM will work.

Where does that DPD test max out? I though they usually only go up to 10? At some point they also get bleached out and look like zero, even though FC is actually high.

Does the phenol red test give you an FC range where it works? Phenol red turns into Chlorphenol red when FC is too high, which does the yellow to red transition well below pH 7, and normal pool pH always looks like pH above 8. The Taylor pH test has a special formulation so it works up to about FC 10. Most other phenol reds stop working already at lower pH, so I'm a bit surprised to see pH 7.3 at FC 11.

It might be worth playing round with dilution with distilled water a bit, and see if your test results are consistent with dilution. If you start with FC 10, then a 1:1 dilution should show FC 5, and a 1:3 dilution FC 2.5.

The DPD goes to 10. I saw something about dilution and thought "Wow - it's really that simple". It makes perfect sense.
Forgive me my lack of math skills - it's been a long day at the office - but how does 1:3 equal 2.5? Wouldn't 1:4 be 2.5 and 1:3 = 3.3?

And does it need to be distilled water or can I use tap water? The same we use for the pool.

You are probably right about the PH....... I got it down to 7.1/7.2 before starting this "stoneage-SLAM", so maybe I should just be happy with that and forget about the PH for now?

 

[ajw22]

1:3 means 1 part pool water and 3 parts distilled water. If you begin with 10 from the pool water you have 4 units of water and end up with 2.5 from the pool water.

 

[jokael]

1:3 means 1 part pool water and 3 parts distilled water. If you begin with 10 from the pool water you have 4 units of water and end up with 2.5 from the pool water.

Thanks Of course.......
Busy day at work - just some small breaks to check TFP.......

 

[mgtfp]

It's a funny thing, how we operate. No one ever questions that a 1:1 dilution halves the chlorine, you always instinctively just "halve" the chlorine when "doubling" the water quantity, without realising that you just "divided by 1+1".

But we tend to stumble over 1:3, and want to divide by 3 instead of 1+3.

In the first case we "see" the solution, in the second case we want a formula.

Maybe similar to counting. When there a 3 beans on a plate, you don't count you just "see" 3. But when there a 7, most of us need to count.

 

[jokael]

It's a funny thing, how we operate. No one ever questions that a 1:1 dilution halves the chlorine, you always instinctively just "halve" the chlorine when "doubling" the water quantity, without realising that you just "divided by 1+1".

But we tend to stumble over 1:3, and want to divide by 3 instead of 1+3.

In the first case we "see" the solution, in the second case we want a formula.

Maybe similar to counting. When there a 3 beans on a plate, you don't count you just "see" 3. But when there a 7, most of us need to count.

Precisely.

And the dilution method actually told me that my crayon-comparison method was not totally accurate (oh, really.......). Luckily I over-chlorinated - not under......
When doing a 1:3 dilution, I would have liked to see a number around 12..... Hmmm, can you say "20"........
Anyway - any eventual mustard-algae will probably also be gone by now .
So I'll stick with brush and vacuum today and check the level at night or in the morning again.
We have a cloudy and rainy day so I'm not sure how much will buzz off due to UV.

 

[jokael]

A view from this morning. Visible bottom, but room for improvement
Note - the water is not that blue, it’s just because I didn’t want to wrestle with the solar cover just for a picture…….

 

[mgtfp]

The other, probably bigger, uncertainty is the CYA value. I never found the strip CYA readings to be anywhere near reality. Any chances for an alternative there?