Not trying to beat a dying horse, but am I understanding you correctly that your opinion is the step pic does NOT look like gunite showing through thinning plaster?PoolGuyNJ said:
When does replastering become critical?
- Thread starter Beez
- Start date
In the last pictures that Beez posted the middle of the steps are lighter. It seems to me if, in that area, it was wearing through, you would see the grey showing through the white plaster as that middle section more than likely gets the most "foot traffic". It looks like the "foot traffic" is keeping the area scrubbed down some. I don't know about the picture of the sides though.
You can get a small brush, utility brush, that you can screw a wood pole into, specifically for scrubbing during acid wash, etc. It has what looks like natural bristles. I have purchased those at HD or Lowe's. The pole is not very long. It sure saves the back.
In my pictures, note the mottled scaling. I didn't want to do acid washing on them, too much, as the acid removes the exposed plaster too, which is very evident because the runoff is dark blue. I can't remember exactly how, but the acid working reacts differently on the plaster vs on the scale. I'm, later, going to be posting some pics of pool while we were doing the acid wash. I have one really good one that shows some up close scaling on the pool side in deep end. It looks very different than the scaling on the steps.
gg=alice
You can get a small brush, utility brush, that you can screw a wood pole into, specifically for scrubbing during acid wash, etc. It has what looks like natural bristles. I have purchased those at HD or Lowe's. The pole is not very long. It sure saves the back.
In my pictures, note the mottled scaling. I didn't want to do acid washing on them, too much, as the acid removes the exposed plaster too, which is very evident because the runoff is dark blue. I can't remember exactly how, but the acid working reacts differently on the plaster vs on the scale. I'm, later, going to be posting some pics of pool while we were doing the acid wash. I have one really good one that shows some up close scaling on the pool side in deep end. It looks very different than the scaling on the steps.
gg=alice
Beez said:
I'm pretty sure that is what he means. It looks like scaling to me with each side of the middle less disturbed so that staining occurs more on either side of the white area.
When I drained my pool last year, my whole medium blue plaster, was white instead of blue, becoming more white the more the plaster dried. It was all scaling. It looked more blue when there was water in the pool but certainly wasn't as dark a blue as the plaster really is. After acid washing the walls several times with diluted acid, using more acid concentration each time, we finally used straight 32% acid in some areas. I certainly don't recommend doing that unless you have some experience under your belt though.
I've poured straight acid on my top step with pool filled. Acid sinks in water like lead. The scaling was so thick it immediately attacked the plaster faster than the scale. That's why I ended up using the angle grinder on the bottom step. I'll finish off the other two, next spring, if it hasn't all released during the winter. Scaling is very, very tough when it builds up more than a very thin layer.
If you do have very thick scale and very old plaster you might want to consider doing something milder to lighten/remove the stain on the scaling, like the AA treatment. Then use a sequestrate to keep the stains away. That's what I'm doing now, after the AA treatment, and it is actually lifting the scale somewhat.
gg=alice
gg, the problem is that the pics don't do the actual situation justice. Although y'all may well be correct, when you look at the step up close it doesn't really look like a stain, and it really doesn't look like scaling.geekgranny said:
I may have to have someone come out and look in person to get a final answer. This thread is mostly about arming myself with information before I call out a contractor.
Check out one more pic. When you look at this area up close, you can actually see little pebbles(like you see in concrete) in the darkest area. If this is indeed stain/scaling then I will just leave it alone. I know it's ugly, but it doesn't really bother me too much. This plaster is on its very last legs so I don't want to do anything that might rush its demise because I don't have the money to replaster right now.
[attachment=0:1uoaxcti]first step 2.jpg[/attachment:1uoaxcti]Attachments
BTW, I hope I don't come across as argumentative. I really appreciate everyone's input. :-D
Beez, IMO the deep end is calcium scale and the step is stained. It does not appear to be the gunite showing through. Take a vitamin c tablet and set it on the brown area, if it turns white after a couple of hours, its iron stain and the ascorbic acid treatment is your answer.
renovxpt said:
Yeah, it dawned on me yesterday that the Vit C tab test hadn't been suggested. Beez, you're probably going to have to wait until spring, though, if the Vit C works. I was advised that the treatment would take longer, a couple of months ago, when my water temps were way down from summer temps as everything slows down tremendously as the water gets colder. I forget what my temps were but somewhere in 70s. The treatment took weeks instead of days. I'm close to Dallas and my water temp, yesterday, was 44 before last night's low of 23. Tonight's prediction is 22. Weatherbug says air temp is 31 F, right now, out my way SW of Dallas, but my meters, here, show 33. I haven't checked my water temp today but I'm guessing water will be 40 or below. Hopefully the Vit C test, with such cold water, will work but have several tabs on hand to place another one in the same spot when the first one dissolves (if it does dissolve in cold water). Try not to disturb the water much when you put the second on the spot.
In my deep end, when the water temps were still in 80's, a black spot formed around the tab, with a black streak running down to the drain. It was interesting because the staining was hardly visible and only a few months old. I didn't get the black spots on the steps though. I'm thinking maybe the stain was so set in to the scaling that the reaction was hampered. Tab did lighten a spot on the steps but mostly on the plaster that was showing through the heavy scale.
Keep us informed and ask, ask, ask.
gg=alice
OK, I feel like a complete idiot. The discoloration on the step is definitely a stain, proven by the ol' vit c tablet trick. Not only that, but I know exactly what caused it! There are two places in the pool where circulation is very poor...I'll give you three guesses where those are! The sad part is that I have witnessed it many times, but it just wouldn't sink in. The Polaris will make it up to the second step, but any leaves on the top step have to be removed manually. And they don't collect evenly across the step either, but form two neat little piles in the corners.
So it is an organic stain, big whoopty-do! It took me 2 pages of posts to figure that out...
I'm sure you guys are right about the calcium scaling in the deep end as well. I can't imagine what it would take to get rid of that, I'm not even going to try. It is about 1/16" inch thick!
Anyhoo, thanks everyone for the input and help! Think I'll give it a rest for a while...
Dave
The discoloration on the step is definitely a stain, proven by the ol' vit c tablet trick. Not only that, but I know exactly what caused it! There are two places in the pool where circulation is very poor...I'll give you three guesses where those are! The sad part is that I have witnessed it many times, but it just wouldn't sink in. The Polaris will make it up to the second step, but any leaves on the top step have to be removed manually. And they don't collect evenly across the step either, but form two neat little piles in the corners.So it is an organic stain, big whoopty-do! It took me 2 pages of posts to figure that out...
I'm sure you guys are right about the calcium scaling in the deep end as well. I can't imagine what it would take to get rid of that, I'm not even going to try. It is about 1/16" inch thick!Anyhoo, thanks everyone for the input and help! Think I'll give it a rest for a while...
Dave
There is a tool that goes on the end of a pool pole that allows a slow and controlled application of muriatic directly on the calcium. Combined with a pool brush, it can be dissolved. I doubt you will need a grinder like geekgranny needed.
Scott
PoolGuyNJ
Scott
PoolGuyNJ
Although it wouldn't meet OSHA standards, you can pour acid down a 2in pvc pipe directly to the scale. Be very careful.
renovxpt said:
Reno's correct, we do it all the time. Just make sure and swirl the water with your net very well afterwords. If you don't this area's water will be very aggressive because of the PH and Alk changes.
Both of which are very bad for a cementious pool finish (plaster)
See ya,
Kelly
Not worth the the risk when the tool set is $70.
Spill on the deck is bad.
Spill on yourself is bad.
Pouring too much is bad.
Difficult and awkward control.
Pool pros, if you want the tool set, message me and I will let you know where to get it.
Scott
PoolGuyNJ
Spill on the deck is bad.
Spill on yourself is bad.
Pouring too much is bad.
Difficult and awkward control.
Pool pros, if you want the tool set, message me and I will let you know where to get it.
Scott
PoolGuyNJ
LMAO!!! at myself.PoolGuyNJ said:
I'm so cheap in todays depressed market that I can't afford race fuel. The first thing I thought of was how much I could purchase for 70 bones.
Scott's correct in that application respect.
But, when I do it the way Reno described I have a pair of 4" couplings with 4x2 bushings glued into. I cut a piece of 2" pipe to the length I need and knock them onto the cut pipe. When I'm done I knock the couplings off with a hammer and save them for the next time I need them. I place the pipe as flat to the floor as possible and if its out in the open middle water I'll place a street 45 or 22 degree elbow into the coupling. Sometimes I play heck getting that fitting out of the coupler.
Scott, thanks for mentioning this site the other evening in somebodies thread at G-web
I'd forgotten about this site.
See ya,
Kelly
WOW! Excellent advice directly from the pros! This site does indeed ROCK! 
Thanks guys!
Dave
Thanks guys!
Dave