What is in conduit - I can't pull old wire out

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CountryBumkin

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Jan 9, 2017
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Orlando/FL
I have two underground conduits that are about 50ft and 70ft installed eight years ago. I think there is about a total of 180 degrees in bends (two 45s and a 90).
I want to pull out the old 120V "color changing" pool lights and replace with LED. I had the shorter light out of its basket (which is when I decided to replace) to inspect it. While it was out I tried to pull some of the cable out. I couldn't get it to budge. I think the cable will break before it moves - but I'm really not sure how much force it should take (and how much the wire can withstand).

Why is this so tight?
I know it is not unusual for water to get into buried conduit. What else could be in there (how could anything else get in)? :confused:
How do I get the old cord out - maybe I am just not pulling hard enough?
 
Are you sure that the cord runs all the way back to the panel or is there another J-box somewhere?

In case this wasn't obvious - DO NOT PULL the old cord until you have the new cord securely fastened to it! You need the old cord in order to pull the new one. As far as why it is so tight, 50ft is a long run to pull wire through a conduit and a hard 90-degree connector will make it even harder to pull. If you are unsure you can do this on your own, then I would call in an electrical pro with pool experience to do it. The have lots of tricks up their sleeves for getting a stuck wire loose. The last thing you want is a broken cord halfway though the conduit :shock:
 
I installed the lights myself - there is only one cord all the way to the pool j-box at the pool electric panel (nothing in between). It went in easy at the time (I think it was 8 years ago now).
I hate to call in a pro. I'm hoping someone can post back some of these tricks.
Thanks for the advice.
 
Is just replacing the light bulb an option? I replaced my Pentair bulb with an LED from Amazon that was about $65. I think there might be some leak-proofing bushings in some of the conduit somewhere.
Anyway, for me, replacing the bulb only was a viable option.
 
I suspect the 90 is most of the problem the wire sitting in there for years has probably conformed to the 90 more than you might think and it only takes a few LB of resistance over 50 ft to stop movement. First I would try 2 people one pulling at the pool and the other pushing at the J-box. If possible remove the J-box to get the best access to the conduit. Then try pushing/pulling in the opposite direction a wire in a conduit will often only move in one direction and it is usually not the direction you would prefer. In those cases you can use the existing wire to pull in a low stretch polyester pull tape and use the tape to pull back the new light wire. Second thing I wold try is a fish tape along side the existing wire with a flexible plastic or fiberglass end (something that will not poke a whole in or tear the existing wire) again try from both sides. I might be tempted to put a little water in the conduit for lubrication but only if I were 100% sure the wire does not have a splice, there is no chance of a conduit break from say a root intrusion, and there is no grease compounds in the conduit that may end up in my pool.
 
I recently retrieved a 130 run with 5 - 90's. It was amazingly difficult but we finally got it going by heavily gressing what wire was exposed and then put an extension at the box. This, coupled with the extra cord at the light end, allowed us to get it rocking back and forth and eventually it "broke loose" and the remainder of the pull was difficult but not impossible.

You will have to use a lot of force. If it breaks of course, you will have to dig it up and lay new conduit. No easy solutions.
 
Wire pulling lubricant might help. The hard part is to get it deep in the conduit. Then, if you push and pull the wire, it might break loose.

Get clear, non-toxic, non-staining lubricant.
 
I saw our construction team fish a conduit we could not get a fish tape through after we broke but were able to remove both ends of a wire. First they blew out the conduit with air and water to clean it. Then they attached a solid rubber ball that was not that much smaller than the conduit to some 50Lb test fishing line. They built a conduit fishing gun of sorts using some PVC, with a T and an endcap. They glued the T onto the conduit so that you could see straight into the conduit with the other part of the T at 90 to the conduit, loaded the ball and line through the straight through port of the T, fished the line through a small hole they drilled in the end cap and glued the endcap on. They attached the compressor to the perpendicular part of the T. They would feed the line a bit at a time then a burst of air. The hole in the cap the line went through was small enough the majority of the air pressure pushed the ball down the conduit and around the corners of what we presumed were 90s. Hard to describe and I would never count on it working even 10% of the time but worth a try before digging. From there was just a matter of pulling a stronger fish line in then the new wire. We still had to use a ton of lube and do a lot of back and forth on the new wire but we eventually got it.
 
Thanks for all the ideas.
I can easily dig down to the 90 degree fitting just under the J-box and cut it out. But if I cut that out then I fear my pool will drain through the conduit until the water level gets below the light niche. Of course I could pump the pool down below the lights before hand, but I want to try everything else first.

I'll try pushing-pulling first to see if that gets it moving. Maybe I can blow some compressed air into the conduit.

On the question about just replacing the bulb - the light comes on now, but the color wheel doesn't rotate anymore. I though swapping it out with an LED "color changing light" (no moving parts) would be better in the long run than to try and rebuild what is there.
 

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CountryBumkin said:
On the question about just replacing the bulb - the light comes on now, but the color wheel doesn't rotate anymore. I though swapping it out with an LED "color changing light" (no moving parts) would be better in the long run than to try and rebuild what is there.
Click to expand...

I'm a believer in don't fix what ain't broke.....

The make replacement LED bulbs that are programmable by number of times you switch them on/off in a short period of time. Do some research on them before you tear everything out is my suggestion.
 
With conduit if it's not glued, I've seen connections pop out and shift depending on how well they were seated. It could be that you're dealing with a joint that isn't together anymore, and that can obviously make things really, really tight. I've also had to pull wires in directions opposite of the direction that I wanted to go, because it seems like sometimes it pulls better one direction than the other.

I'd try pushing as others have suggested, and lubricant. It makes a big difference if you can get two people - one on each end, because then you can tell if it's moving even in the slightest degree, and you can work it back / forth...
 
Here is what i did that worked well for low voltage cable.. Dig to that 90 degree elbow.. drill two holes on top on each side of the connector. I did a half inch bit and use a light to see the cable. spray in a decent amount of a good lubricant. Then you may need a helper or two... start to rock the wire back next forth from the two ends.

See if you notice the wire moving and which side had more play. You may even Mark the wire through the hole to see which side moves. In my case it was the junction box side so we sprayed a little more and then one more hole on the elbow.. we put in petroleum jelly.. good amount in fact..

We tied some pulling rope to the wire at the end . Then pulled . The other helper would occassionally spray additional lubricant through the hole on the wire.
That helps beca use the wire cover and pvc conduit have oxidized and tend to bind and loose flex.

That wire started freeing up and we got to the rope. Yeah.

Two tips to then pull in new wire. One lightly coat the wire with lubricant while it's outside. Again a good grade, made for electrical and won't stain. And tie on another nylon string as a leave in. This helps down the road if you ever need to repair or replace.
Cover the holes u drilled with a good silicone.. then I sprayed the outside with plastic coat (underlayment or flex seal)
 
Warning:

For most Lordcore's suggestion above willl not work and will usually create a mess.

The light cable conduit is usually flooded. It's designed that way. If he had a problem pulling wire it's probably because someone plugged the conduit.

Generally you do not want to dig down and cut your light conduit you run the risk of draining your pool.
 
I had the same problem with the light cord being stuck. I had my brother help me when pulling and still no luck. I went to the junction box and poured some dish soap down the line and flushed it out with water and tried pulling with no luck. Then I used a compressor to push air down the junction box with dish soap still being present in the line while my brother was pulling and the cord came out. Don't give up!!
 
Neat tip. Thanks.
I'm still thinking about replacing the bulb with a LED "color changing" bulb (if they make one for a SAM light) as was mentioned earlier in this thread. Bu honestly I haven't gotten further than just "thinking" about it so far.
 
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