Waterline Tile Mortar Application

[PoolPlunging919]

Hello all,
I'm wondering if anyone has any referencable industry specifications as to how water line tile should be installed? I've searched ANSI and have articles that reference tile thin set should have >95% coverage for exterior or submerged environments. I also have ANSI/APSP/ICC-5 2011 (R2022) American National Standard for Residential Inground Swimming Pools which covers the specifications of the actual build/structure and this TFP waterline overview.
I'm hoping to find something that specifies the actual mortar application though (troweled). The crew installed the tiles using spot bonding, maybe it's ok in this setting, but nothing I have found confirms that - I did find that ANSI has a few use cases where spot bonding is suitable but it doesn't include this use case. I raised my concerns to our PM and I'll be meeting with him and the contractor tomorrow. Their response was that they've used this team for 100s of pools, no issues, personally guarantee yada yada.

They assured me they'll backfill everything when the lay coping (not sure how the underside would get backfilled?), but clearly there will be gaps no matter how much they backfill. I'm worried I don't have much rebuttal as to the tiles being installed incorrectly without anything to cite. Has anyone else had a similar experience?

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[AQUA~HOLICS]

Have not seen spot bonding applications before in swimming pool settings in my area, most common is troweled.

 

[PoolPlunging919]

Yeah, that is what I would expect. And looking into it this weekend in prep for the meeting tomorrow, everything I'm reading is there should be the layer of skim coat which wasn't done either, they're mortaring the tile directly to the concrete.

 

[Bperry]

Yeah, that is what I would expect. And looking into it this weekend in prep for the meeting tomorrow, everything I'm reading is there should be the layer of skim coat which wasn't done either, they're mortaring the tile directly to the concrete.

Mine was spot bonded like that. Didn’t know it had a name.

 

[kimkats]

My biggest worry for that tile is the tile getting water behind it and popping off due to freeze/thaw conditions. I would not accept this. They are going to push back because it is going to cost them money so be ready to stand you ground about it. It is not going to be fun. G

Gotta love the "we have been doing this for x number for years/pools" well yeah but that does not make it right!

 

[duraleigh]

+1 what kimkats said.

 

[PoolPlunging919]

Gotta love the "we have been doing this for x number for years/pools" well yeah but that does not make it right!

Yes, and the 'personal guarantee' from the tile guy - whom I've never met and don't know their business. They came for a site visit today - without meeting me and generated a 'site report' that everything was done proper. I asked proper according to who? To what industry standards? They filled in all the tile and had started on the coping! Not sure what changed but two hours later and the guys were removing all of the tile, sanded it down, and now we wait for a new order of tile to be applied in our preferred (the correct) method. Relieved that they came around without too much hassle but wish it had been done correctly to begin with.

 

[darinclifton]

They need to identify the products that are being installed. I know of NO products that allow partial or spot coverage for tile installation / submerged or not. They would need to provide me the installation guide from the mortar and or tile manufacture that provides for there products being used in this fashion. This will become a problem in the future, grout and sealant will fail. (period) The spot method can be a much faster way to achive a uniform flat surface, that doesn't make it acceptable.

Example for TEC (not a high performance product) but this article has quite a few ANSI call outs.

I personally wouldn't use anything but Laticrete products for pool tile installation.

 

[kimkats]

generated a 'site report' that everything was done proper. I asked proper according to who? To what industry standards?

Well done by you! Point out the standards to which your work is being held and we can move on...........otherwise NOPE!

Not sure what changed but two hours later and the guys were removing all of the tile, sanded it down, and now we wait for a new order of tile to be applied in our preferred (the correct) method. Relieved that they came around without too much hassle but wish it had been done correctly to begin with.

So they started working it like it was THEN stopped and took it all off??? INTERESTING for sure! I wonder as ell.

It would be oh so nice if they had pride in their work from the start and DID IT THE CORRECT way from the start

 

[PoolPlunging919]

They ended up bringing in a different crew (so they must just have lots of subs on rotation) that used back-buttering, which still would not have been my preferred method but was an approved method on the installation guide for the tile manufacturer, so I'm happy they're willing to work with us. Disappointing that people just don't take care in their craft, makes me wonder if we are getting lower tier subs because we're a smaller contract than they typically have, I think.

We now have a new issue with a couple of the tiles placed but with hopefully be an easy fix.

Appreciate everyone's responses to validate the concerns