Water Level Sensors

[JFad]

I got to believe that this is possible, but figuring out the best path is becoming a head scratcher. My pool has a negative edge with a seven-foot drop. The pool has a fill valve at the bottom of the trough with the simple float to turn the water on/off. When the float valve broke water went over the trough wall and down the hillside. In addition, I have had a couple of bad leaks since buying the house (anyone want to buy an in-ground pool?). I have put the refill on a smart valve timer so that it has plenty of time to fill during the heat of the summer but not run for days on end. Up until now the timer has worked fine, the pool gets its water at night based on evaporation and my water bill is not frightful. Until...

Well, as luck would have it, I got still another leak and the trough ran dry. Fortunately, I caught it before damaging the pump but it raised the issue of a wi-fi sensor that would let me know if the trough was getting low - in time to protect the pump and find out what was going on this time...

My pool company is not in favor of the automatic pool fillers (nothing solid, just says that they create as many problems as they solve) so I was thinking about another direction... a low-level detector similar to a sump pump or water storage tank. Most that I have seen/read about are 110 power and I don't have a receptacle anywhere near the trough (which is down a cliff). Ideally it would send alerts/texts or tie into something to alert me - therefore wi-fi. If it had a high-water-level range limit as well as the low-level I would also be interested as it could keep the trough from over-flowing if the water supply valve float broke again - the pool has evil intentions...

The info that I was able to find on this site related to salt systems or products that didn't seem to be available anymore... so apologies if this has been asked and answered repeatedly. Thoughts appreciated by any that have gone down this rabbit hole!

 

[JJ_Tex]

Wow, sounds like you have a lot going on with the pool. Is the problem that you cannot see the trough from the house, therefore if it overfills or goes dry you cannot easily see it?

If so, could you put a batter powered wifi camera (like an Arlo) that allows you to better see the area? Its not as automated as you are asking above, but would cover you for whatever you pool throws at you next.

 

[ajw22]

How technical are you? I can think of ways to hack what you need. May need to use a water sensor with a battery operated Raspberry PI.

There are commercial sensors that may be able to be adapted for your needs...

Resistive Tank Level Sensors | Wireless Transmitters | Level Measurement

Wireless Tank Level Sensors for monitoring liquid level in Oil & Gas and industrial applications. Robust automatic tank gauging solutions.

oleumtech.com

 

[JFad]

could you put a batter powered wifi camera (like an Arlo) that allows you to better see

JJ Tex - yes I tried putting an Arlo out there, but when well watched the pool does not mis-behave. It gains my trust and I slack off my supervision and it turns and bites me. It is a very vindictive pool! When I bought the house the pool had been neglected by absentee snowbirds - no complaints as it resulted in a discounted purchase price. Now I must unwind the neglect and give it the attention it demands... money and time.

How technical are you?

AJW - Reasonable. Like many I can eventually club technology into behaving given direction. My daughter's background is cyber-security so I have her as a resource - and she has a Pi available. This may make a fun father/daughter project!

On the tank level sensor - your idea is obviously more robust than anything that I could envision - but I noticed on the spec sheet - the shallowest - if that is a word - is 2'. My trough is only about 16" and fills to about 12"...
so I am not sure that I could get a water level reading. I was initially looking at a Sump Sensor. but this required 120v and had a 90db alarm (just the thing to impress neighbors!). I also saw this - which just looks cool but probably isn't robust enough.

Thanks for the thoughts JJ/AJW

 

[ajw22]

That sensor was just an example of what is available. There are many sensors available in the IOT (Internet Of Things) world. Especially if the sensors connect to a Raspberry Pi.

I think @MyAZPool may be fooling around with etape sensors.

 

[JFad]

I think @MyAZPool may be fooling around with etape sensors.

I invited him to the conversation. I have searched IOT devices but not found anything after a quick dive... looks like it is time to go deeper.

 

[ajw22]

Here is a thread discussing etapes used by @jonpcar

My new automation system.

EDIT 8/18/2019: Node-RED flows now stored on github. Youtube videos here: Hardware / Node-RED programming --- Hi all. I wanted to share my new automation system with someone. My wife and kids don't really care but I think it's pretty neat. :laughblue: Today all it does is the web interface...

www.troublefreepool.com

 

[MyAZPool]

I'm not fooling around with eTape Sensors.
I have no way to sense the amount of how much water is in my pool except for my "slowly-loosing-calibration" eyeballs.
I'm using beta software that will tell me how much liquid is in my acid tank but I have to input the starting amount and then it just keeps track of how much it doses and then subtracts the amount. And then I have a meter/totalizer that tells me what the flow rate is of the refill line.
That's all I got with ref to anything related to this..
It appears that I am woefully lacking in this area...
r.

 

[JFad]

Oh my!!! This is going to be interesting! If I can get it to work it will be fun... otherwise, to quote the great philosopher, "Here's another nice mess you've gotten me into!" - Oliver Hardy of Laurel and Hardy.

I read the Hackster post that was part of @jonpcar 's response to My New Automation System , Pool Fill Control and will by studying it, repeatedly. This is what I was hoping for - now to learn!

 

[jonpcar]

Oh my!!! This is going to be interesting! If I can get it to work it will be fun... otherwise, to quote the great philosopher, "Here's another nice mess you've gotten me into!" - Oliver Hardy of Laurel and Hardy.

I read the Hackster post that was part of @jonpcar 's response to My New Automation System , Pool Fill Control and will by studying it, repeatedly. This is what I was hoping for - now to learn!

jfad, I have been successfully using the Milone eTapes to measure/monitor my chlorine tank levels for the last year and a half...it is very accurate. However, Milone’s eTape could not successfully survive operation inside my muriatic acid tank. There is a fair amount of understanding and programming to include an eTape in any particular solution.

If you try this path, I would recommend a couple things: (1) get the chemical Milone eTape version (better seal), even though water measurement shouldnt require it (2) definitely still use the float valve for fill, it is easy...then use the eTape (or any other solution you come up with) as a monitoring device to signal a problem (3) before ordering an eTape, figure out how you are going to mount it and protect in your trough (4) you probably would want to use a 12” eTape version, possibly 6”.

I have some posts in my automation build (see my signature) about the Milone eTapes...I think the eTapes are pretty cool, but they do require some background to integrate.

 

[JFad]

I understand that this thread has been quiet for a while, but I wanted to close the loop with what I have done.

I tried the e-Tape but found trying to put the whole package together was a stretch for me... I found a place in Canada that sells a wireless or wired water level sensor that uses regular batteries. It is called PTDevices (ptlevel.com/ptdevices). They are designed for water tanks which are obviously deeper than the trough, but I called and they made one for my water level requirements.

I have been using it now for about a month. Because the trough is narrow, shallow and long (about 900 gallons), it isn't dead on accurate in terms of the percentage fill reported - but that is ok for me as I just want to make sure that I don't run the trough dry or have water cascading over the edge. It has no problem getting a signal although I did put the radio part of the system above ground level but that was more for my ease in the initial calibration. Free version allows 2 SMS alert levels (I set mine at 115% and 60% of normal) but I went with the paid plan so I could get the API and integrate with Home Assistant. While it is not an automatic configuration it was only a couple of lines in the config.yaml file to set it up. I have integrated it to protect pumps and overfilling so I couldn't be happier. No affiliation, just reporting on what worked for me.

Thanks for the help on this project!
-J