Undersized filter clogging in minutes during SLAM

[Ccieszyn]

Hi All,

Thanks for all the help and advice on these forums. I'm going through an extensive SLAM on a new-to-me neglected pool. Water is currently cloudy blue, can't see much past the first step in the shallow end, and certainly not to the bottom anywhere. I'm losing much less FC over the past 36 hours or so, and CC has recently dropped to .5.

I'm quickly coming to the conclusion that the previous owners went cheap on the filter, and maybe even the pump as well. Pump is 1hp, filter is a PA90. Documentation I've found so far suggests the pool is either 12k or 15k gallons. I haven't had it measured yet to be sure, but from my reading a 90SF filter seems ridiculously small for a pool even at the low side of the estimate. Likewise, the pump is not able to power both the jets and the waterfall with valves fully open at the same time. Even with the filter removed, I have to close the jets to somewhere around 50-60% capacity to get strong flow from the feature. During the SLAM, my filter is clogging within minutes each time I clean it. I started with an older filter, but moved to a brand new cartridge with similar results. Flow goes to almost nothing, and the pressure goes up to 30 or higher.

Clearly I need to look into an upgrade, but until then, what is my best course of action to bring this SLAM to conclusion? Should I remove the filter and rely on unfiltered circulation for a while longer to make sure everything in the pool is dead? Should I turn the pump off to let things settle and try to get the pool cleaned manually? Or should I just stay and struggle through cleaning the filter every other hour to see little to no gain? Or maybe something I haven't thought of? Thanks again!

 

[kimkats]

Well hello there! Glad to meet you but sure am sorry it is like this

Okay so you have a good test kit and have started your SLAM so you are well on your way to a clear pool. GUrrrrrrrrrrrrr on the former owners though. We will work through the small filter.

One thing do need from you is a pic of your pool looking down at the steps or something like that. That will be our "watch" spot to see if your SLAM is working.

Now see if you have any poly fill like goes in pillow or stuffed animals. You can put that in the skimmer basket to try to catch more of the stuff. Do you have a main drain in the bottom of the pool?

 

[wireform]

I'd turn off the water features and move the water in the pool. Several times a day you'll need to get flow in the water feature to clear the stagnant water.

 

[Ccieszyn]

Thank you! Overcast when the pics were taken, but I think they'll work. No poly fill sitting around at the moment that I know of, but I could get some.

Pool has two drains on the bottom, I believe. I can feel with the brush and have two valves labeled "drain" on the pad and one labeled "skimmer", so I'm sure that's right.

 

[Ccieszyn]

I'd turn off the water features and move the water in the pool. Several times a day you'll need to get flow in the water feature to clear the stagnant water.

Thanks. That's my big issue at the moment. I've had the feature off more or less since this past saturday, except for a little while when I put in the new filter and when I ran it for a little bit with no filter to check how well the pump could do on its own. Even with the feature off, I'm getting almost zero flow after about 30 minutes past rinsing the filter.

 

[kimkats]

Those are just the kind of pics I wanted to see! Well done!

So it is as blue as can be so you have done a great job with the SLAM up until now! Now we just have to clean the sediment out of the water.

Do you have a couple of cotton T-shirts you could give up for the pool? You could use those to help filter the water. You will have to play with them to see how thick they can be and not stop the flow of water. That will save you from having to buy some poly fill or tearing up a pillow.

30 mins between filter cleans=ouch and no fun for sure! I am hoping something in the skimmer basket will help.

Tonight push your FC up to SLAM level and let the pump run to mix it in good. Then turn off the pump/filter overnight to see what happens. Maybe some of the stuff will drop to the bottom so you can vacuum it out.

Do you have ANY way to vacuum with out going through the filter? Maybe making a syphon out of a hose and letting it suck the stuff up and out?

 

[Ccieszyn]

I have a VRX iQ+ with an ultrafine basket that I could try. I ran it through early in the slam process and it got completely clogged with Crud so I've been hesitant to run it again. I also have a standard basket for the robot if that might be better. I don't have a manual vacuum, but I do have a large valve on the top side of my filter (see pic) that opens to fresh air, and of course the filter drain. I was thinking about grabbing a vacuum, removing the filter, and just trying to vacuum out into the grass (if that's even possible - forgive my ignorance).

I've certainly got some t shirts to spare. Are you thinking maybe I close the drain valves to get as much suction to the skimmer as possible, then skimming through the cotton?

 

[kimkats]

I was thinking about grabbing a vacuum, removing the filter, and just trying to vacuum out into the grass

So that hose goes to the grass when open? You might be onto something with that!! I bet we could work with that.

I close the drain valves to get as much suction to the skimmer as possible, then skimming through the cotton?

YES! You got it on the nose!

Throw the robot in for good measure. Let us see what it gets up.

 

[wireform]

I have a VRX iQ+ with an ultrafine basket that I could try. I ran it through early in the slam process and it got completely clogged with Crud so I've been hesitant to run it again.

Don't be too quick with this robot because the pressure it exerts on the filter will break it right through. Just had one last week with one of my pools or the motor block can take a hit from pressure.

 

[JoyfulNoise]

it is very common in FL to find pools with dinky cartridge filters on them. TFP has yet to discern the rationale among pool builders in FL for using the smallest possible filters on pools. It's somewhat, barely understandable to do that if a pool sits inside a screen cage because the debris loads will be minimized ... but it's huge headache when algae blooms hit and you're stuck with a short-cycling filter that needs attention every 30mins. When you get your pool cleaned up, and you're ready to tackle the next pool project, definitely kick that pump/filter combo to the curb and install something better. I have a 100 sq ft DE filter on my 16,000 gallon pool and it's pure joy not to have to mess with the filter at all but once per year to clean it out. I don't necessarily recommend switching to DE, but get the largest filter your wallet can afford, along with a variable speed pump, and you'll be a much happier pool owner ...

 

[Ccieszyn]

So that hose goes to the grass when open? You might be onto something with that!! I bet we could work with that.

YES! You got it on the nose!

Throw the robot in for good measure. Let us see what it gets up.

yes, the orange valve on the left side of my pic goes out to the world. I didn't show the end since it has a long pipe on it - I used it once to drain the pool before the SLAM since the water level was too high. . I guess something is still going to the filter, but it drains several inches off the pool in minutes.

I'll go grab some t-shirts and see what I can whip up.

Don't be too quick with this robot because the pressure it exerts on the filter will break it right through. Just had one last week with one of my pools or the motor block can take a hit from pressure.

Yes, that certainly seems like a weak point for this robot. When/if I do try it, should I use the regular basket or the ultrafine? Is the dead algae just going to go right through the standard mesh?

 

[Ccieszyn]

it is very common in FL to find pools with dinky cartridge filters on them. TFP has yet to discern the rationale among pool builders in FL for using the smallest possible filters on pools. It's somewhat, barely understandable to do that if a pool sits inside a screen cage because the debris loads will be minimized ... but it's huge headache when algae blooms hit and you're stuck with a short-cycling filter that needs attention every 30mins. When you get your pool cleaned up, and you're ready to tackle the next pool project, definitely kick that pump/filter combo to the curb and install something better. I have a 100 sq ft DE filter on my 16,000 gallon pool and it's pure joy not to have to mess with the filter at all but once per year to clean it out. I don't necessarily recommend switching to DE, but get the largest filter your wallet can afford, along with a variable speed pump, and you'll be a much happier pool owner ...

Well, making matters much worse - this pool is UNCAGED. And we are on a pond. I think I'm going to have to become a super pool chemistry expert if I don't want to end up filling it in.

I can find the cash to do something better once this is all over. What would be the best possible combo, in your opinion?

 

[wireform]

I can find the cash to do something better once this is all over. What would be the best possible combo, in your opinion?

If you're up grading then do it now to help clear up the pool.

 

[JoyfulNoise]

Well, making matters much worse - this pool is UNCAGED. And we are on a pond. I think I'm going to have to become a super pool chemistry expert if I don't want to end up filling it in.

I can find the cash to do something better once this is all over. What would be the best possible combo, in your opinion?

3HP variable speed pump (Pentair IntelliFlo is the industry gold standard)
Largest possible cartridge filter you can afford (Pentair Clean and Clear) OR you can go old-school with a sand filter
Salt water chlorine generator (Pentair or Circupool)

... and, if you really like to spend money ...

Automation (ex., Pentair IntelliCenter)

 

[Ccieszyn]

3HP variable speed pump (Pentair IntelliFlo is the industry gold standard)
Largest possible cartridge filter you can afford (Pentair Clean and Clear) OR you can go old-school with a sand filter
Salt water chlorine generator (Pentair or Circupool)

... and, if you really like to spend money ...

Automation (ex., Pentair IntelliCenter)

Thanks! I was reading about matching pump HP to the pool, but I'm just dipping my toe in to the research. 3HP variable wouldn't be too much for a pool of this size?

This ordeal has me frustrated with cartridges. Any reason for me to not be looking at DE?

 

[wireform]

Just installed THIS pump a few weeks ago for one of the pools as they needed to keep the budget low and we took the risk. So far it runs flawlessly. Same pool just installed a RJ60+ last weekend and @1500 rpm the cell is happy and so is the op.

 

[JoyfulNoise]

Thanks! I was reading about matching pump HP to the pool, but I'm just dipping my toe in to the research. 3HP variable wouldn't be too much for a pool of this size?

This ordeal has me frustrated with cartridges. Any reason for me to not be looking at DE?

The thing to keep in mind is that a variable speed pump means you can adjust the RPM's and, therefore, you adjust the horsepower as well. A 3HP VSP is only 3HP when you are running the pump at full speed, 3450RPM's. Typically, VSP's can run anywhere from as lo as 600RPM all the way up to full speed. So it's basically a variable horsepower pump which, in your circumstance with poor flow to water features, would be very useful.

DE filters are great at filtering out fine particulates but the thing to remember is that they can easily become overwhelmed. DE filters, no matter the size, can load up very quickly if you get any algae. So since your pool is not screened, you want a filter that can capture lots of stuff without becoming overwhelmed. If fill water is an issue, like being on a well or having high iron levels in your fill water, then a sand filter won't be a good choice because you'll be backwashing too much. In that circumstance, a large area cartridge filter will work best - good filtration quality and high loading capacity with no backwashing needed.

 

[Ccieszyn]

The thing to keep in mind is that a variable speed pump means you can adjust the RPM's and, therefore, you adjust the horsepower as well. A 3HP VSP is only 3HP when you are running the pump at full speed, 3450RPM's. Typically, VSP's can run anywhere from as lo as 600RPM all the way up to full speed. So it's basically a variable horsepower pump which, in your circumstance with poor flow to water features, would be very useful.

DE filters are great at filtering out fine particulates but the thing to remember is that they can easily become overwhelmed. DE filters, no matter the size, can load up very quickly if you get any algae. So since your pool is not screened, you want a filter that can capture lots of stuff without becoming overwhelmed. If fill water is an issue, like being on a well or having high iron levels in your fill water, then a sand filter won't be a good choice because you'll be backwashing too much. In that circumstance, a large area cartridge filter will work best - good filtration quality and high loading capacity with no backwashing needed.

Thanks. That's good feedback. Does the forum agree on the best source for these components? Not trying to be "that guy" - I'll look into it myself in a little bit too.

 

[Ccieszyn]

So that hose goes to the grass when open? You might be onto something with that!! I bet we could work with that.

YES! You got it on the nose!

Throw the robot in for good measure. Let us see what it gets up.

OK, It took a bit to get things to the point where the pump would fully prime. I pulled the filter completely since there was no way I was going to get decent flow with it installed. I had to open one of the drains most of the way along with the skimmer to get the pump happy, but I have good suction now through a T-shirt in the basket. It's definitely catching something; I can feel the slime. I'm going to let it go for a bit to see what kind of accumulation I get and to watch for a suction decrease before I pull it and replace.

I also just ran a new chlorine test and I'm slightly above my target for the moment. CC is at 0.5.

 

[JoyfulNoise]

Thanks. That's good feedback. Does the forum agree on the best source for these components? Not trying to be "that guy" - I'll look into it myself in a little bit too.

I don’t think there’s any preferred outlet for it. Just shop around and find the best prices. It also depends on if you’re going to go full DIY or pay for installation.