two issues: white flakes and rust colored staining/pitting plaster

[Bketchum5]

Hi all!! new to the forum but been following for years.

somewhat new pool owner here. 4 year old saltwater pool. 20,000 gallons, free from with 10x8 raised sundeck and spillover spa (400 gallons).

anyways, i have two concerns.

1) i seem to constantly get little white flakes, almost like salt crystals that dissolve when rubbing in your hands as well as scale buildup all over tile/water line. After reading numerous posts on here it seems like they are scale or calcium that has come out of solution but i just can not get rid of them. live in oklahoma and am told we have hard water. it seems over time that the white flakes embed themselves in to the plaster. how do i get rid of the flakes that are floating around in the pool. My pool cleaner (nautilus plus) will vacuum up what it can, but sometimes it blows them around the pool surface. i have scrubbed with pumice stone and steel brush and the embeeded ones just wont come off the surface.

2) on my island/sun deck their are little brown/red stains in numerous spots, almost looks like dirt that have worked their way in to the plaster and wherever these "stains" are they pit out or etch my plaster. plaster is only 4 years old. their is also the above mentioned white flakes that have embedded on the island/sundeck and no amount of scrubbing will knock them loose.

I try to keep up wiht my chemistry as best i can. my biggest issue always seems to be high pH and TA so i have spent a small fortune on muriatic acid. I use other chems as well to keep other chemistry in balance.

any pointers or has anyone else had these issues?

I havent done a test in a week as i just got back from vacation so i dont have new current numbers

 

[jeremycrook]

Hi all!! new to the forum but been following for years.

somewhat new pool owner here. 4 year old saltwater pool. 20,000 gallons, free from with 10x8 raised sundeck and spillover spa (400 gallons).

anyways, i have two concerns.

1) i seem to constantly get little white flakes, almost like salt crystals that dissolve when rubbing in your hands as well as scale buildup all over tile/water line. After reading numerous posts on here it seems like they are scale or calcium that has come out of solution but i just can not get rid of them. live in oklahoma and am told we have hard water. it seems over time that the white flakes embed themselves in to the plaster. how do i get rid of the flakes that are floating around in the pool. My pool cleaner (nautilus plus) will vacuum up what it can, but sometimes it blows them around the pool surface. i have scrubbed with pumice stone and steel brush and the embeeded ones just wont come off the surface.

2) on my island/sun deck their are little brown/red stains in numerous spots, almost looks like dirt that have worked their way in to the plaster and wherever these "stains" are they pit out or etch my plaster. plaster is only 4 years old. their is also the above mentioned white flakes that have embedded on the island/sundeck and no amount of scrubbing will knock them loose.

I try to keep up wiht my chemistry as best i can. my biggest issue always seems to be high pH and TA so i have spent a small fortune on muriatic acid. I use other chems as well to keep other chemistry in balance.

any pointers or has anyone else had these issues?

I havent done a test in a week as i just got back from vacation so i dont have new current numbers

Try and keep you CSI slightly negative, play around with the numbers and you can determine what you need to change.

https://www.troublefreepool.com/calc.html

My SWG creates small white flakes when it reverses it's polarity and flushes the scale built up on the metal plates, supposedly it's "normal" per Jandy.

 

[Bketchum5]

Help!! stains or calcium with a couple pics

Hey, all i posted a couple of weeks ago with some problems i started recently having. i was on vacation when I posted so i didnt have any pics.

to recap, i have a small sundeck, about 8' x 10' and only 6 to 8" deep, so it gets exposed to more sunlight than the deeper parts of the pool.

i have noticed recently on the sundeck and throughout the pool, little white flakes (no not floating around) but actual white flakes that are embedding in to the plaster. see pic of white flake stain. i have scrubbed to know end and they wont scrub off the plaster. I have picked up some stain and scale remover to try that but we are getting a lot of rain right now so i need to balance pool before adding.

Also, on the sundeck are these little red or brown stains that are all over the sundeck and they wont scrub off either. when i go to pick or scratch at them the plaster jsut flakes off.

If anyone has this problem or knows what the problems are please let me know.

Pics
white flake stain
red stain #1
red stain #2


I just tested my pool back from vacation so i need to get in in check but the stain problems i just cant seem to control.



I dont have a fancy pool test kit so i am relying on a store to do my testing so i am always leery of there results but they seem to always be close to my generic kit i do use. most the time the answer is to add acid

anyways, here is my recent numbers and thanks for any input on the stains

25,000 gallon pool SWG PEntair products, 450 gallon hot tub and 450 BTU heater

All numbers are from the store with my comments in ()
FC 3.5
TAC 3.5
Salt 3200
CH 250 (not sure i believe the store result in this one, not in Oklahoma, where im told we have hard water
CYA 80
TA 200 (my test before went in to store was 110 on TA)
pH 8 ( my test was high too, probably above 8 but thats as high as my chart shows)
Copper 0
Iron 0
Phosphates 200

thanks

 

[mknauss]

White flakes are most likely calcium. Without reliable test results it is difficult to provide guidance. CSI is something you need to review Pool School - Calcium Saturation Index (CSI))

The red areas -- could they be thinning plaster and rust from underlying steel structure be coming through?

Try some Vitamin C (take tablets and crush them up in a sock) on the red stains.

This forum advocate’s pool owner water testing using a proper test kit. Order a TF100 test kit from TFTestkits.net. The only other real option for a test kit is a Taylor K-2006-C. Be careful comparing prices because the K-2006 comes in sizes, designated by a letter. The basic K-2006 has .75oz bottles. You need to get the K-2006-C to get the larger bottles that you want. Even then it is a little short on the reagent & powder for the FAS/DPD test.

A SpeedStir is also recommended as it makes testing much easier.

 

[Bketchum5]

I’ll get a tf100 or k2006 test kit but isn’t it what Leslie’s or another local pool service company I take my water to use? It looks like it on the internet.

As for the vitamin C test, if it does or doesn’t go away what does that tell me?

 

[mknauss]

You are doing the testing. You care about your pool being sanitary and clean. You swim in that water. If you are doing all the testing, you do them the same way every time. You will not contaminate your sample with another water.

A person at a pool store could mostly care less. Not all, just most.

If Vitamin C removes the stain, it is iron. If it does nothing, it is organic. If it darkens it, then it can be another metal.

 

[Bketchum5]

Thank you so much!!

 

[Dirk]

I'll leave the water chemistry to the experts here, I'll just give you some words of encouragement. My pool was ruined by calcium deposits. The plaster and tile were covered with it when I purchased the house and pool. I added a SWG and got flakes right away. I have since resurfaced the pool and found TFP at the same time. I embraced the teachings here, including the self testing, using one of the recommended kits. I abandoned the pool store and my pool guy. And I figured out how to combat my high CH and high TA fill water (through a combination of using soft water for the high Ch and TFP advice about the high TA). Point is: since then, my water was been crystal clear, zero algae, feels and looks great, and after about nine months I cannot find a spec of calcium on my tile or new surface. I mean, not the teeny tiniest hint of calcium anywhere, and no more flakes.

Get the kit and do your own testing. Do your Pool School reading. Stop testing at the pool store, and ignore their advice and don't buy their snake oil products. Those lines of advice are said so often here they've become cliche. But that's because they work! Have a little faith, trust TFP, and you'll be happy you did...

 

[Bketchum5]

great!! Thanks for the advice. Im always a little skiddish when the stores recommend buying their snake oil. im sure they ahve some decent products. and they have been great when i go in and never too pushy bu i do agree there would be no error doing my own testing. will order one of the kits today.

Can i at least buy the refills at the pool store or do you recommend buying them online as well?
any recommendations for a salt reader as well?

Thanks

 

[Dirk]

Use the Taylor K-1766 kit for salt. OK to buy reagent refills anywhere, just be sure of the expiration dates when you buy. Online and local pool stores have been known to sell expired, or close-to-expired reagents. At least at the local shop you can look at the expiration date before buying. Buying the refills from TFTestkits.net assures you the products are fresh, and they provide great support when you need it.

Buying products at a pool store is fine. I do. But because I've learned and practice TFPC, I know what to buy, and more importantly what not to buy. Some pool stores put sales over proper pool care. The safest MO is to ignore their advice, just go in and get what you need, and leave. They may try to up-sell you to some "magic" potion. Just say "No, thanks." A sure fire recipe for failure is to follow more than one method, more than one mentor. If you're ready to let go of the pool store and trust TFP, then do so completely. Don't try to mix and match advice from multiple sources. That definitely won't work. TFPC is practiced by 10s of thousand of pool owners across the planet. Their methods are time tested and backed by solid, real science. They are not influenced, at all, by sales or advertising. Their only goal is to help others achieve the same success they enjoy. Can you say the same of the kid that happens to be working at your pool store this summer?

The other downside of pool store products are that many are just repackaged common household ingredients, like bleach and baking soda, that is sold in fancy packaging at exorbitant prices. You can buy the same ingredients for less elsewhere. You'll learn all about that if you study here at TFP. Not only will your pool be better off, it'll cost you less, too!

The threads and posts here are monitored and curated by a select few TFP Moderators, so pretty much anything you read here has "passed the test" and is good advice. Anything posted here counter to the TFP methods is either corrected or removed. This is not an "open forum" where anybody can say anything. It is a learning forum, and the curriculum is guarded. And if you really want to play it safe, look for the special TFP badges in the sidebar: Moderator, TFP Expert, TFP Guide, etc. Those posters have been "credentialed" by the TFP organization and their advice is always inline with the TFP doctrine of pool care.

Good luck. Take the leap of faith.