Two Game SolarPro diverter bypass kit confusion, dial pos? vs Clear Solar Blankets?

[theskyisthelimit99]

I decided to give two of these units a shot along with the diverter kit, since i found a really good steal on jet.com, for now, see how it goes, then maybe go the route of 80 to 160 sq feet of solar panels instead, later if the water doesnt warm up a bit.

I'm debating several things on this hookup. I'm not sure the best location for these will be on the side where my main pump is, i think it may be ok, though maybe better if i angle them 45 degrees (unfortunately westward facing if angled).. perhaps building a pvc stand for each of them or wood, unsure.

I'm wondering if i decide i want to move them further away or around the pool, if the tubes that come with it will go very far, i'm assuming they are limited to maybe 6 feet, unsure?

And also.. i'm about to replace my somewhat weak 0.5hp 2100gph intex sand pump with the best choice 4500gph 1hp unit.. which then has the intex salt water system after it. Do i need to find a cheap small pump, or is that not needed since i bought this diverter kit.. does the diverter kit really slow the water down so it can heat up better.. and if it does, will it cause a reduction on the main pumps pressure in anyway (if so i think maybe a small, 900gph ? pump may be in order and which kind though).

Someone in amazon reviews mentioned "burning" out the solarpro with a more powerful main/only pump, but this makes no sense to me, its just coiled tubes and they may not have been using the diverter kit.

Any thoughts/suggestions

Thanks in advance

 

[domct203]

Re: Two Game SolarPro XD1 4512s w/ diverter kit, need for two pumps or just one? hook

No need for another pump, hook them up with the diverter and you should be fine.

I think you are going to be disappointed with the heating performance, a 24" circle is only 3 square feet of surface area, being half a sphere they probably equate to about 6 square feet each. I have 72 square feet of panels and only get a couple of degrees increase each sunny day.

Let us know how they work for you.

 

[theskyisthelimit99]

Re: Two Game SolarPro XD1 4512s w/ diverter kit, need for two pumps or just one? hook

No need for another pump, hook them up with the diverter and you should be fine.

I think you are going to be disappointed with the heating performance, a 24" circle is only 3 square feet of surface area, being half a sphere they probably equate to about 6 square feet each. I have 72 square feet of panels and only get a couple of degrees increase each sunny day.

Let us know how they work for you.

I'm pretty sure you will be right.. but at around $138 with a 30 day return window and for two of them, i figured, eh, lets try it.. cheaper than buying 80-160sq feet of panels and plumbing a 30 foot pvc over to the garage roof, or building a giant 40 foot tall 45 degree angle panel, for now at least (i dont think my one side of my garage roof has enough room for more than 80 sq feet, though i havent measured yet)

 

[theskyisthelimit99]

Re: Two Game SolarPro XD1 4512s w/ diverter kit, need for two pumps or just one? hook

One other question, where does the diverter get spliced in at, would it be at the point between the SWG and the sand pump.. should i just use the hoses that come with the solar domes or convert to PVC?

 

[theskyisthelimit99]

Re: Two Game SolarPro XD1 4512s w/ diverter kit, need for two pumps or just one? hook

I'm probably putting the domes out in the open where they are exposed to sunlight nearly all day, vs maybe losing 3 hours of sunlight close to the pool.. this distance will likely be about 12 feet or maybe 15 in one direction.. i'm hoping this doesnt drop pressures too much.

 

[theskyisthelimit99]

Re: Two Game SolarPro XD1 4512s w/ diverter kit, dial pos? vs Clear Solar Blankets?

I've got the diverter kit hooked up, sealed up the last of some small leaks near each dome (i hope)..

Question i had was on the diverter valve, its a 3 way.. i'm not completely understanding which should be the "normal" position ie: the #2 spot which is at 12oclock at the Tee.. and what the other two left and right positions do.. (bypass the domes?)..
I'm assuming there is no inbetween.. i thought it would slow the water down so to speak.

The other thing is that i'm coming from 1.5" pvc to the smaller hoses and smaller T with the pressure gauge.. i think this is reducing flow back to my salt water generator and return?

This is a picture from the amazon link for the bypass kit.. in this pic they have it going to the right, not upward at 12 oclock for some reason.. (by design, the way this pic below has the handle configured.. the flow from the right from the pump would be cut off completely)

Below is my current configuration, the gauge/pipe on left goes back to the SWG/return.. while on the right at the 3 way valve, the incoming PVC is coming from the sand filter. Maybe I needed to arrange the 3 way like in their demo shot? Unsure if this makes a difference? edit: pretty sure this is wrong that i need to take the hoses off and adjust the orientation, otherwise a complete bypass isnt possible.

On another note.. assuming these dont work out.. i spotted "clear" thick solar covers which many claim work wonders (as opposed to going back to the solar panel on the roof idea for now).. leaving these on during the day too to gain up to 17F.. it might be the next best route at near $100?

 

[jblizzle]

A cover retains heat at at night more than anything, which can be significant. Does not really add additional heat that the sun hitting the pool was not already adding.

 

[domct203]

A cover retains heat at at night more than anything, which can be significant. Does not really add additional heat that the sun hitting the pool was not already adding.

Agreed, I find that my pool heats better with the solar blanket off on sunny days.

Your plumbing looks correct as is. Feed in the right with 3-way valve, return on the left with T fitting.

There is no exact position for your 3-way valve. You may need to leave the bypass open a bit to reduce flow through the solar system, or maybe not depending on what pump you use.

What is the recommended flow rate through those things?

You could also try running them in parallel, instead of in series like they are now.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[theskyisthelimit99]

Agreed, I find that my pool heats better with the solar blanket off on sunny days.

Your plumbing looks correct as is. Feed in the right with 3-way valve, return on the left with T fitting.

There is no exact position for your 3-way valve. You may need to leave the bypass open a bit to reduce flow through the solar system, or maybe not depending on what pump you use.

What is the recommended flow rate through those things?

You could also try running them in parallel, instead of in series like they are now.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

On the solar blanket.. would that apply even to the clear ones? It was my understanding that the clear ones allowed for sunlight / heat build up more so than the blue ones.. i have the blue one, probably only 3 mil or something, but the clear one i linked.. its 16 mil thick..

I wish there was a scientific way to compare results on the domes at least...i wish there was a way to put a thermometer in the output side of the dome to compare to the input.. though i guess one could check the temperature at the return in the pool and compare to the "other side of the pool", but there is bound to be some thermodynamic dissipation ..

on the bypass.. if you compare the amazon photo with mine, mine was different.. it seems if you aim the arrow (handle in opposite direction) at the direction you want "off/closed" this is how it works.. I switched it up this morning (before seeing this) to match the picture/diagram.. i think the position i have the handle in now is correct... flows 3 ways basically, open in 3 directions.. when you say "leave the bypass open a bit", do you mean the reverse, leave the ball inside slightly open.. ie: put the handle at the 10 am position in my photo (edit, between the gray and black hoses, makes it half open)?

Here is the current arrangement:

Here is a view of the diverter valve with nothing on it, if my filter line were connected here, it would be cut off from the pump.. so in my photo above, i turn the handle so the big part of the handle is to the right, puts the closed ball to the left (all 3 open).. if i put the big part of the handle to the left, the closed valve becomes the part that goes to the domes (so it really gets bypassed / turned off).. hence i thought maybe to slow it down a little.. i should put the handle in between the gray hose and the black hose going to the dome, i guess thats not quite the 10am position, though it is if you turn your head

I'm guessing i wont see much of an increase with these domes as we have agreed.. i think the increase comes more on hotter more direct sunlit days.. i have a friend who has one of these.. he talks of typical average (early-mid summer) pool temps of 72 becoming 79 to 80 with one single dome.. i dont think it will help warm the pool on sunny days that avg 70 by much (early season like now with the water at a crisp 54 degrees), with occasional peaks to 80.. in which case, my finger is on the buy button trigger to get either 80 or 160 sq feet of the panels and put them on my garage roof (which unfortunately doesnt start getting more direct rays till the sun rises a bit more from behind in the east, say by 10am more direct, 930 indirect), then probably shadowed by my house by 6 pm., guessing 6 solid hours a day with that.

 

[domct203]

On the solar blanket.. would that apply even to the clear ones? It was my understanding that the clear ones allowed for sunlight / heat build up more so than the blue ones.. i have the blue one, probably only 3 mil or something, but the clear one i linked.. its 16 mil thick..

I wish there was a scientific way to compare results on the domes at least...i wish there was a way to put a thermometer in the output side of the dome to compare to the input.. though i guess one could check the temperature at the return in the pool and compare to the "other side of the pool", but there is bound to be some thermodynamic dissipation ..

on the bypass.. if you compare the amazon photo with mine, mine was different.. it seems if you aim the arrow (handle in opposite direction) at the direction you want "off/closed" this is how it works.. I switched it up this morning (before seeing this) to match the picture/diagram.. i think the position i have the handle in now is correct... flows 3 ways basically, open in 3 directions.. when you say "leave the bypass open a bit", do you mean the reverse, leave the ball inside slightly open.. ie: put the handle at the 10 am position in my photo (edit, between the gray and black hoses, makes it half open)?

Here is the current arrangement:

Here is a view of the diverter valve with nothing on it, if my filter line were connected here, it would be cut off from the pump.. so in my photo above, i turn the handle so the big part of the handle is to the right, puts the closed ball to the left (all 3 open).. if i put the big part of the handle to the left, the closed valve becomes the part that goes to the domes (so it really gets bypassed / turned off).. hence i thought maybe to slow it down a little.. i should put the handle in between the gray hose and the black hose going to the dome, i guess thats not quite the 10am position, though it is if you turn your head

I'm guessing i wont see much of an increase with these domes as we have agreed.. i think the increase comes more on hotter more direct sunlit days.. i have a friend who has one of these.. he talks of typical average (early-mid summer) pool temps of 72 becoming 79 to 80 with one single dome.. i dont think it will help warm the pool on sunny days that avg 70 by much (early season like now with the water at a crisp 54 degrees), with occasional peaks to 80.. in which case, my finger is on the buy button trigger to get either 80 or 160 sq feet of the panels and put them on my garage roof (which unfortunately doesnt start getting more direct rays till the sun rises a bit more from behind in the east, say by 10am more direct, 930 indirect), then probably shadowed by my house by 6 pm., guessing 6 solid hours a day with that.

How you set that valve really depends on the recommended flow rate of the domes. If your system is flowing 40GPH and the domes recommend 10GPH for the 2 of them in series, you would want to favor flow away from the domes, maybe 75% bypass with 25% to the domes. Using my wife's oven thermometer I found that the return water was about 2-4 degrees warmer (I would stick the wired probe right into the return). When I had my Intex 14" sandfilter with 3/4HP pump, I ran with my bypass open about 15-25% (estimate). When my solar system was running in full sun, the panels would feel to be right about ambient temp, and if I stuck my hand in the pool and passed it by a running return, the water was noticeably warmer coming out of the return. When in the pool, you could notice the warmer water a few feet out from the wall as well if you were right in the path of the return with the water calm (2-3 adults in the pool). This year I intend to install a flow meter now that I have a much stronger system.

- - - Updated - - -

As far as the solar blanket, I have a blue one that has a silver side that faces the water. I bought it as a heat retention device, not a heater. I've never owned a clear cover so I cant really comment.

 

[theskyisthelimit99]

How you set that valve really depends on the recommended flow rate of the domes. If your system is flowing 40GPH and the domes recommend 10GPH for the 2 of them in series, you would want to favor flow away from the domes, maybe 75% bypass with 25% to the domes. Using my wife's oven thermometer I found that the return water was about 2-4 degrees warmer (I would stick the wired probe right into the return). When I had my Intex 14" sandfilter with 3/4HP pump, I ran with my bypass open about 15-25% (estimate). When my solar system was running in full sun, the panels would feel to be right about ambient temp, and if I stuck my hand in the pool and passed it by a running return, the water was noticeably warmer coming out of the return. When in the pool, you could notice the warmer water a few feet out from the wall as well if you were right in the path of the return with the water calm (2-3 adults in the pool). This year I intend to install a flow meter now that I have a much stronger system.

- - - Updated - - -

As far as the solar blanket, I have a blue one that has a silver side that faces the water. I bought it as a heat retention device, not a heater. I've never owned a clear cover so I cant really comment.

The oven thermometer is a good tip, ill try that.. Sounds like i should definitely move the valve into the inbetween location, i guess where its at now going 3 ways at once is full spread between domes and regular return flow (50% maybe?).. i assume that position i mentioned, slightly left would cut that to about 25%. Curious.. for your PVC pipes and your solar panels.. do you leave those out on the ground in the winter.. or is there too much of a risk of freezing since not buried under 3 feet in the ground (even if "drained")?

 

[domct203]

The only thing that could freeze is the water. I leave all the PVC that's on the ground out all winter. I just bring in the valve motor from the solar controller.

I bring the solar panels inside the house for the winter.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Pv2]

solar blanket will do more than those puny dome heaters. my philosophy on the blankets: get a cheap one as they really only last a year or two anyway and the heavy ones are just that - heavier and harder to deal with. better to count them as an annual or two year expense. clear may allow a bit more daytime heating when they are brand new, but they get cloudy and dirty pretty fast and I doubt it matters much in the long run. the benefit of these things is they cut evaporative cooling, especially at night. it can keep the water 10 to 15 degrees warmer than without, especially in dry breezy weather.

 

[theskyisthelimit99]

The only thing that could freeze is the water. I leave all the PVC that's on the ground out all winter. I just bring in the valve motor from the solar controller.

I bring the solar panels inside the house for the winter.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

i asked because i saw someone who installed these SunQuest panels on amazon (which if i switch i may go with these at $280 for the roof kit and diverter), said they buried the pvc to avoid freezing issues for the winter.. as if i end up switching to panels i gotta go under my deck over to my garage roof, not easy to remove.. Also is the question of whether to put a disconnected unscrew adapter in the middle (even if slightly buried).. all future thinking, gotta see how this goes..

back to the diverter, more i thought the more i confused myself.. i think the question is, which opening to i want to restrict to 25%.. i'm guessing the solar dome portion right?

This would mean if 100% closed, the handle is facing the bottom of the tee with no connection, small part points at the black hose.. so to go 25%, i guess the question is, slightly right turn with long handle aiming in between bottom of tee with nothing and the incoming sand pump pvc, or slightly left turn, so long handle is in between the nothing bottom connection and the outgoing gray tube.

I also think its bad to leave the hoses on the ground so i may need to devise a plan to avoid this, if i keep these.

- - - Updated - - -

solar blanket will do more than those puny dome heaters. my philosophy on the blankets: get a cheap one as they really only last a year or two anyway and the heavy ones are just that - heavier and harder to deal with. better to count them as an annual or two year expense. clear may allow a bit more daytime heating when they are brand new, but they get cloudy and dirty pretty fast and I doubt it matters much in the long run. the benefit of these things is they cut evaporative cooling, especially at night. it can keep the water 10 to 15 degrees warmer than without, especially in dry breezy weather.

I found a 12mil (thinnest i saw on amazon) for $74.95 for the clear one with decent reviews and some who have gone through 2 seasons so far.. considering switching from blue to this to see how daytime goes (and shutoff the domes for a controlled test).. There was one reviewer that claimed his 16 mil clear did better daytime heating than the 12 though, but that was only one person and not a scientific answer. last nite before darkness the pool was sitting 58F, cold overnight to 43F brought it to 54F as of now in SW PA.. today being first dome test day, but equal pressure on the diverter switch, still need to find the 25% position and go from there and measure temps.

 

[theskyisthelimit99]

The more i thought about it, i'm not sure i follow the complete logic of using the diverter to slow the water down.. i get that it would heat up over a longer period of time with less GPM.. but, its also sending say 75% less volume, so less water is being heated up at the same time.. so i would think an even split between the 3 pathways would be more fruitful than reducing the flow to the domes to 25% (while keeping the main pathway at near 100%)... am i missing something.. i do get that the domes may only be rated at a certain GPM, but there still is not a full GPM going into them, in the standard all on position, maybe 50/50 split or is it 33/33/33 on each pathway of the tee

 

[domct203]

If you run the water through the panels too fast, you will not gain much heat while in the panels. If you run them too slow, you'll risk pressure buildup, as well as waste the heat being lost into the air/pipes.

You are correct in your logic, best to heat a lot of water a little, not heat a little water a lot.

With that said, parallel would take more flow as the restriction will be less only having to travel through one length of dome, rather than the sum of the two in series.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[theskyisthelimit99]

If you run the water through the panels too fast, you will not gain much heat while in the panels. If you run them too slow, you'll risk pressure buildup, as well as waste the heat being lost into the air/pipes.

You are correct in your logic, best to heat a lot of water a little, not heat a little water a lot.

With that said, parallel would take more flow as the restriction will be less only having to travel through one length of dome, rather than the sum of the two in series.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I guess maybe thats what the pressure gauge is for on the other end of the tee? ideally the lower the better i assume, certainly in the green, right now with just 3 way split its 1psi.. i guess in parallel i'd have to add some pvc and some tees and i guess i would still use the diverter at the beginning and end. I also realize i need to get the hoses off the ground.. if there is any benefit of these domes ill add cement pads under them to keep the hoses off the ground. Maybe late season or very early next year ill go the solar panel route.

I saw your post on your water temp.. i guess even with your solar panels you are also still in the 50s though i guess thats largely a result of lack of sunlight (or warm sunlight perhaps?) or the need for another panel.. have you ever hit say 70 in april like a few with panels have (info is always sketchy/uncontrolled when they state this though).

If i cant extend the season even by a little ie: say may 15th instead of june 5th (guessing june 5th unaided.. though last year was the first year for this and i started in mid july and it was pretty much a wrap by september 10th as water started to go down in temp to around 70-72 max i think), i dont think its worth the hassle of the panels on my garage roof

 

[domct203]

My pool is still in the 50's because it is still covered and closed LOL.

Last year I opened on April 23rd, and did not hit 70 until May 25th. I installed the controller on May 14th, and that is when I noticed the temps coming up, but I think that was coincidental.

The pool was back down to 70 on September 25th. I closed October 16th at 55 degrees.

 

[theskyisthelimit99]

My pool is still in the 50's because it is still covered and closed LOL.

Last year I opened on April 23rd, and did not hit 70 until May 25th. I installed the controller on May 14th, and that is when I noticed the temps coming up, but I think that was coincidental.

The pool was back down to 70 on September 25th. I closed October 16th at 55 degrees.

Ooops sorry maybe you said it at some point still being closed haha.. these are good data points though.. i think you said though, right, that when your panels are doing their thing you can feel/test a difference in the input vs the solar warmed return water right? IE: can even feel the warmer water. My friend with a single one of these domes, claims he can feel the warmer water in the summer months from the return, he's not using a diverter though.

 

[chayne]

i dont have those domes, i just bought a 4x8 piece of plywood and built my own solar heater behind my fence line. here is what my solar heater was putting out this yesterday afternoon. i have 350ft of the black poly pipe.