Troubleshooting poor flow pressures

Feb 4, 2016
21
Western Australia
This is driving me mad and, to me, it would appear to defy logic.

I used to have a pool/system that would happily run an automatic cleaner (aka Baraccuda, aka Kreepy Krawly) on the end of an 8m hose. Now I have a system that hiccups, splurts and farts if fit a few metres of hose to the skimmer plate (no auto cleaner attached). In summary - used to work well, now doesn't.

I have done a whole load of troubleshooting on this without making any progress. Short summary:

1) Pressure gauge on sand-filter/multiport valve shows 12 psi when the system is running normally (that's with no auto-cleaner, no skimmer plate, no hose)
2) When I fit the skimmer plate the pressure drops down 0.5psi to 11.5psi
3) When I fit the AD Flow Vale the pressure drops down to 10.5psi. If I replace the AD flow valve with a simple 90-degree bend I get a similar drop in PSI
4) When I fit 1m of hose cable to the AD Flow Valve the systems will sit at around 10psi and seems happy, but already I'm noting that there are a small amount of bubbles appearing in the system that can be viewed where the water enters the pool
5) When I fit 4m of hose the system is already struggling to keep flow and is often coughing/splurting at the pump. PSI is 5 - 6 psi at best
6) With 8m of hose on the system (nothing else fitted) the system is bouncing between 1 and 6 psi as it coughs and splurts alot
7) As part of the troubleshooting I dismantled the impeller and found nothing of note. No change when I reassembled
8) I also completely dismantled the sand filter. Removed all the sand, inspected the laterals. Dismantled the multiport valve. Put it all together again. No change.
9) Finally, my sandfilter sprung a leak at the collar, so I had to replace the whole unit. I bought and fitted a new sand filter, with new multi port valve, new laterals and new sand medium (Zeolite). After fitting, still no change. Still no suction through the hose. Without hose I get 12psi on pressure gauge (this is a new pressure gauge that came with the new multiport valve, but reads the same as the last one).
10) Also, I bought a new automatic pool cleaner early on in the investigation but it made no difference (which makes sense now based on further tests I've done since).

Now, my only thought is that the pump simply isn't generating enough flow/power. Possibly down on power from where it once was for some reason? But then I would expect the PSI at the sand filter to show poor pressure. Is 12 PSI ok?
 
One possibility that might explain your symptoms...

I remember reading a thread describing a similar issue. It could be a suction-side leak. And it could be anywhere. I read there are leaks that only manifest themselves when resistance is increased. So everything is fine normally, but as soon as you apply resistance (plate - valve - hose), the leak kicks in and introduces air in the line.

You start by testing or replacing everything above ground, including the hose. Use this technique on pumps, pipes, valves, fittings, etc:

Find an air leak in your swimming pool. - YouTube

And if you can't find it, then the leak might be underground. Not sure what to suggest for that. Leak detection expert, I suppose. Hope not...
 
Oh man. That sounds really worrying! Could that be combined with excess water loss then?

I suppose so. A suction-side leak wouldn't leak water while the pump was on, but it's possible it could leak water when off. Yours doesn't sound like a significant hole, though, or else you'd get a lot of air all the time, not just while using vac.

Start with the above-ground troubleshooting first (testing for leaks with the hose trick, checking/lubing o-rings, etc), before you panic just yet. Set up the vac to enable the leak, then run water over everything you can get to.
 
That's a great tip - will try the running-hose troubleshooting trick. Unfortuantely my pool equipment is in my shed, so soaking the floor is a problem, but worth it if I can track the issue above ground!

I big part of this for me has been learning the plumbing for my swimming pool. As far as I can understand, my pool has no 'main drain'. Certainly, there is no drain in the bottom of the pool. The main pool plumbing is a skimmer box return and then 2 inlets/supply jets. Then connected to the pool I have a sma spa that has 8 small jets/inlets a return and also a larger supply jet so that the spa still fills up when you are not using the jets (everything selectable using 2 valves next to the pump in the shed). As far as I can tell, that's it.

The only piece of plumbing that I cannot work out is actually in the skimmer box above the skimmer plate, but under the waterline. It is a small cap about an inch in diameter and when you unscrew it there is a small pipe behind it. Not idea what it does or where it goes.
 
Fingers crossed for the leak detection! There is a way to do the test with smoke (based on a YouTube I just viewed where some guy was holding what appeared to be smoking incense up to his fittings and valves), but can't advise about that. Something to look into if you want an alternative to the water trick. I expect the water trick would be easier and more definitive.

FYI: "no drains" is in! I deleted mine. Nothing wrong with that setup. Safer, cleaner look, no vac or brushing snag ups, etc.

TFP lingo: just "skimmer" not "skimmer box return". "inlets/supply jets" are referred to here as "returns." (They return water to the pool or spa.)

The mystery cap in your skimmer is likely an overflow. With the cap off, if a heavy rain or forgotten fill hose ran the pool level up, the water would escape through your overflow port before it overflowed the coping, which for some would cause all sorts of trouble: flooding, trashing landscape, etc. It's capped likely because it was not ever plumbed to go anywhere. That's if the port is relatively close to the surface, as in where your ideal water level should be. If it's well below the surface, or below the intake of the skimmer, than that's not an overflow and would be something else.

If in doubt, take a picture of it and post it here. Someone will know what it is... That goes for any of your pool or equipment.
 
I think you are 100% correct with the overflow. It is exactly where it should be for an overflow, roughly about 2 inches below the top. I'm fairly sure it will not have been plumbed in by the previous owners when the pool was fitted, hence the cap is on.

That's for the tip about the smoke - that may be way easier for me actually. Might have to buy some incense sticks on the way home!

And thanks for bringing me up to speed on the jargon - very helpful!
 
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