Troubleshooting a Compool CP3000 - jet pump not getting power

[NeedCoffee]

Hi all,

I suspect my CP3000 is not triggering my spa jet pump. The pump is inoperative when I switch it on, whereas the other two pumps (filter, slide/feature pumps) work fine. I replaced the capacitor on the jet pump, no dice. And when I run a electricity detector (this) along the power cable to the pump, it detects nothing. The fuse in the control panel seems OK. So I suspect the circuitry is not triggering the power to the pump. Any suggestions for troubleshooting that? Thanks!

 

[Ahultin]

Have you tested the relay for the spa pump?

 

[NeedCoffee]

No, but that sounds like a potential culprit. Not sure where/how to access. It must be in the controller's box somewhere?

 

[Ahultin]

Relays look like they are on the left side of the high voltage compartment. I have no experience with this panel but a quick search shows that the relays should all be the same and you "may" have seven. If so iu can try swapping one of the unused ones with the uspected bad one and see if that works. These relays look kinds spendy!

 

[NeedCoffee]

Relays look like they are on the left side of the high voltage compartment. I have no experience with this panel but a quick search shows that the relays should all be the same and you "may" have seven. If so iu can try swapping one of the unused ones with the uspected bad one and see if that works. These relays look kinds spendy!
View attachment 483103

Thanks, that's helpful. I'll see if I can diagnose this.

I did search for these online and yes, they seem pretty expensive for what they are. Still, paying $140 isn't too bad a penalty for getting my jets back.

 

[1poolman1]

Hi all,

I suspect my CP3000 is not triggering my spa jet pump. The pump is inoperative when I switch it on, whereas the other two pumps (filter, slide/feature pumps) work fine. I replaced the capacitor on the jet pump, no dice. And when I run a electricity detector (this) along the power cable to the pump, it detects nothing. The fuse in the control panel seems OK. So I suspect the circuitry is not triggering the power to the pump. Any suggestions for troubleshooting that? Thanks!

With the right-side panel off, manually use the button that turns on the jet-pump to turn it on. Do you hear a "click" of the relay? If so you need to test for power at the output terminals of the relay and the inputs on the pump motor for voltage. If you toggle between on and off while watching you can see the relay working if it is.

 

[NeedCoffee]

With the right-side panel off, manually use the button that turns on the jet-pump to turn it on. Do you hear a "click" of the relay? If so you need to test for power at the output terminals of the relay and the inputs on the pump motor for voltage. If you toggle between on and off while watching you can see the relay working if it is.

Thanks! I'll work on it this weekend and hopefully, I can figure it out.

 

[NeedCoffee]

Ok, so I did some troubleshooting and I suspect it's the relay. My box looks exactly like @Ahultin 's image above. The relay in question is the bottom one. The relay does click when I turn on the pump. And I can see through the transparent housing and see that the internal parts moved when I switched on the pump. However, when I poke around with a voltage meter I find that I get no voltage at the bus bar-looking black block to the right of it. I measure from the bottom-left screw in that block to any other screw above it. Meanwhile, if I switch on one of the other pumps I get 220V between the bottom-left screw on the corresponding block and 2 of the 3 screws above it (sorry, I forget which two showed the voltage). I didn't try swapping the relays because there was power still to the box and I ran out of time.

Am I right to think it's the relay? If so I can just grab one of these from amazon I guess for $30.

 

[Ahultin]

Good chance the contact pad is burnt in the relay. For $30 and free returns I would give it a shot.

 

[NeedCoffee]

OK, so I installed the new relay, and it didn't help. But when I restored power and tried it out, the pump motor hummed for several seconds and then went quiet. It tripped the circuit breaker too. I reset the breaker and tried again. No hum at all this time. Also, there is no voltage difference between red and black at the location I noted in the above image. Any thoughts? Maybe that's the motor shorting out?

One detail just in case it's important: I replaced the capacitor on the pump, and I don't think I ever cut the power to the pump prior to when I installed the relay just now. So maybe the hum is just due to the new capacitor... I'm not sure.

 

[Ahultin]

Try disconnecting the pump wires and exercise the relay. Does the voltage change at the wire harness, no breaker trip? If so then it is most likely the pump/ capacitor wiring

 

[NeedCoffee]

I'm able to get 120 V (and only 120 for some reason... I thought the pump runs at 230V) at and across the capacitor. The back of the pump is up against the house wall with only about 2 inches of clearance, so I can't even get my multimeter probes onto the contacts. Still, when exercising the relay I get that voltage at the cap, and I do get something at the contacts according to my voltage testing pen. I also got that humming sounds for a while before things went silent. So I'm going to assume that it's getting power properly.
One other thing: with the power off, should I be able to reach the pump impeller and spin it, at least a little? I reached in to try to find it and I think I reached the impeller, but it won't budge. I can't really get any leverage on it though... hard to reach. Is that normal?

 

[Ahultin]

Do you get 240v at the end of the pump whip? Did you take a photo of the cap before replacement?

 

[NeedCoffee]

Do you get 240v at the end of the pump whip? Did you take a photo of the cap before replacement?

The cap matches exactly with the old one, spec-wise. I did take a pic. But it seems like I didn't need to replace it since it made no difference.

I wasn't able to measure the voltage at the pump leads because the back of the motor is only about 2 inches from the wall of the house and I can't even get my multimeter probes back there, much less see where they are lining up. I do know that I get power there when I switch on the pump, and no power when I switch it off. I can see and hear the relay operate. I conclude that the relay (new) works fine.

By they way, when I'm measuring voltage drop it's between either of the capacitor terminals and the ground wire on the motor housing.

I think next I'll just finally capitulate and pull the pump+motor. Then I can take it apart on the bench where I can access everything. I just need to find a way to cap the return pipe because I get backflow when my main filter pump is running. No idea why, except that the check valve on that circuit doesn't seem to seal as well as I need.

Thanks for the advice so far!

 

[Ahultin]

measuring voltage drop it's between either of the capacitor terminals and the ground wire on the motor housing

You should be measuring for 240v from line 1 to line 2, line 1 or line 2 to ground will net 120v

 

[NeedCoffee]

Here is a belated update on the situation.

* I eventually pulled the pump. I hesitated for a while because I couldn't figure out a way to keep water from leaking out of the inlet and outlet pipes.
* I dissembled the pump and motor. I found that the motor+impeller turned, but not easily. Removing the impeller allowed the motor to turn more freely, but it still seems harder than I would expect for a new motor.
* upon disassembly the seal plate broke. Plastic around two of the metal threaded inserts broke. And somebody must have been in there before, as there was a bunch of what looked like corroded JBWeld around 2 of the inserts.

Basically, I think the whole thing is done. So I need to replace it. It would be silly to get a VS pump for this application since it only runs the spa jets, and I'd run it at 100% every time. I just want a single speed replacement for the WFE-6 and Centurion 1.5HP x 1.5 SF motor. But that seems impossible due to the laws on filter pumps. Looks like I can get a new Whisperflo wet end. And I'm thinking I can get a local motor shop to rebuild the motor. But is there a better way? I do not want to replumb anything... I want the inlet/outlet to match the old pump and also want the same flow/head performance because I think a weak "compliant" pump motor will ruin the performance of the jets.

Any advice would be appreciated!

 

[NeedCoffee]

You should be measuring for 240v from line 1 to line 2, line 1 or line 2 to ground will net 120v

Here is a belated update on the situation.

* I eventually pulled the pump. I hesitated for a while because I couldn't figure out a way to keep water from leaking out of the inlet and outlet pipes.
* I dissembled the pump and motor. I found that the motor+impeller turned, but not easily. Removing the impeller allowed the motor to turn more freely, but it still seems harder than I would expect for a new motor.
* upon disassembly the seal plate broke. Plastic around two of the metal threaded inserts broke. And somebody must have been in there before, as there was a bunch of what looked like corroded JBWeld around 2 of the inserts.

Basically, I think the whole thing is done. So I need to replace it. It would be silly to get a VS pump for this application since it only runs the spa jets, and I'd run it at 100% every time. I just want a single speed replacement for the WFE-6 and Centurion 1.5HP x 1.5 SF motor. But that seems impossible due to the laws on filter pumps. Looks like I can get a new Whisperflo wet end. And I'm thinking I can get a local motor shop to rebuild the motor. But is there a better way? I do not want to replumb anything... I want the inlet/outlet to match the old pump and also want the same flow/head performance because I think a weak "compliant" pump motor will ruin the performance of the jets.

Any advice would be appreciated!

So I finally got the pump motor rebuilt locally, and ordered a new wet end. Put it all together... and it turns out it still won't run. Took it back to the motor shop where they bench tested it for me. It runs fine on the bench... where they had 240V (actually 208V) between lines 1 and 2. The nuance that I missed from @Ahultin's post is that I don't actually have 240V between line 1 and line 2. I only have 37V. Line 1 shows 119V to ground and line 2 shows 135V to ground. The other 2 pumps run fine. Any ideas? Could line 1 and line 2 be shorting somewhere in the controller? Maybe the black block on the bus bar (see post #8) is faulty? I did replace the relay itself so I assume that part is OK.

 

[NeedCoffee]

Hi all.

I posted in this thread, but apparently, that one is inactive. So starting a new one. I've been diagnosing (throwing money at) my spa jet pump, which isn't working. As mentioned in that thread, I did have the pump rebuilt and it runs beautifully on the bench.

I need a little advice about how to troubleshoot this further in the controller. it's a Compool CP3000. My power leads for this pump do not measure 240V between them as they should. I only measure 37V. One measured 119V to ground, while the other measured 138V to ground. This seems weird.

I did replace the relay and it clicks as it should when I trigger this circuit. So I can assume that isn't the issue. I thought maybe the black block shown in post #8 of the thread could be the culprit. Like maybe there is some sort of high-resistance short in it? Any ideas for isolating the problem?

Moved from other post.. "So I finally got the pump motor rebuilt locally, and ordered a new wet end. Put it all together... and it turns out it still won't run. Took it back to the motor shop where they bench tested it for me. It runs fine on the bench... where they had 240V (actually 208V) between lines 1 and 2. The nuance that I missed from @Ahultin's post is that I don't actually have 240V between line 1 and line 2. I only have 37V. Line 1 shows 119V to ground and line 2 shows 135V to ground. The other 2 pumps run fine. Any ideas? Could line 1 and line 2 be shorting somewhere in the controller? Maybe the black block on the bus bar (see post #8) is faulty? I did replace the relay itself so I assume that part is OK."

 

[Jimrahbe]

NC,

When you measure 240 volts you must measure between the two hot legs (L1 and L2 to get 240 volts.. As you have found out, measuring between L1 to ground and L2 to ground will show about 120 volts on each.. EVEN if one leg has no voltage.. this false reading is due to the pump being in the circuit.

The problem is that you are missing either L1 or L2..

Go to the main circuit 240 breaker for your automation and measure L1 to L2.. If you get 240, then measure the voltage coming into the automation and see if you get 240 volts.. If you do, then move on to the Aux relay that is wired to the 'bad' pump. Test the output of the relay, L1 to L2.. At one of those spots you should be missing 240 volts. It could also be an open wire, but that would be very odd. Most likely a relay or bad breaker.

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[Ahultin]

can you post the picture from 8 without markings as well as a photo of the full pad showing all conduits?