Thoughts on waterfall wall, spa height, spillover placement, pumps

[ajw22]

What am I not understanding??!! AAHHH.

With a 2 pump spa setup you run both pumps in SPA mode.

Below is a pic of the way my spa is setup with two pumps.

The filter/pump, shown in blue, that is shared with the pool is used to filter and heat the spa water through two returns.

The spa jet pump, shown in red, goes direct to the 8 spa jets with no restrictions from the filter or heater.

I can run my spa in four modes:

• Relaxing soak with just the filter pump providing heated water
• SPA with jets running
• SPA with air blower
• SPA with jets and air blower

 

[cjeducator]

With a 2 pump spa setup you run both pumps in SPA mode.

Below is a pic of the way my spa is setup with two pumps.

The filter/pump, shown in blue, that is shared with the pool is used to filter and heat the spa water through two returns.

The spa jet pump, shown in red, goes direct to the 8 spa jets with no restrictions from the filter or heater.

I can run my spa in four modes:

• Relaxing soak with just the filter pump providing heated water
• SPA with jets running
• SPA with air blower
• SPA with jets and air blower

 

[cjeducator]

Thank you, ajw. So, if I understand it correctly, the pool/spa combo pump (when set to spa mode) pushes water through the filter and heater and provides hot water into the spa via the spa return(s). You mentioned the separate, dedicated spa pump then goes directly to the spa jets with no restrictions from the filter or heater, but where does it get its hot, filtered water from - if the spa returns are connected to the pool/spa combo pump?

 

[ajw22]

Thank you, ajw. So, if I understand it correctly, the pool/spa combo pump (when set to spa mode) pushes water through the filter and heater and provides hot water into the spa via the spa return(s).

Correct.

You mentioned the separate, dedicated spa pump then goes directly to the spa jets with no restrictions from the filter or heater, but where does it get its hot, filtered water from - if the spa returns are connected to the pool/spa combo pump?

Notice in my pool I have two sets of spa drains/suction. The spa jet pump uses the hot filtered water from the spa that the other pump has put into it.

 

[cjeducator]

Your explanation makes sense. And from your experience, this is the best way to do it because otherwise, regardless of the size/strength of the pump, the spa jets won't push out water hard/strong enough to provide a great experience...because it will all be slowed down by filter/heater/head....right? The power/strength of the water coming out of the jets is the reason why you did things the way you did things (the two separate pumps (and separate returns) set up this way)? Thanks again, Allen. I appreciate your experience and insight.

 

[cjeducator]

Hi ajw22 and stevo777,

My pool builder is now in agreement that your approach (a separate pump to service the jets to ensure highest jet strength/pressure with no routing through filter and heater) is an optimal approach. However, the engineer (who has never done things that way) is now saying I need to make my 7' by 7' spa into a 9' by 9' spa to accommodate room for the extra returns/drains on the floor of the spa, plus the extra piping for the third pump and returns.

This just does not make sense to me. Plus a 9' by 9' spa seems comically large and doesn't fit our family.

What size are your spas? Do you have any input or advice that can help me here? Again, it just doesn't make sense to me.

<sigh>

Thanks for your time, as always! I don't take it for granted, and appreciate it greatly.

 

[ajw22]

My spa is 7' x 7'.

There should be plenty of space to put two sets of VGBA compliant drains on the floor or sidewalls.

plus the extra piping for the third pump and returns.

What is this third pump for?

 

[stevo777]

My spa is 7’ x 7’ . The two pairs of drains are in the floor of the spa.

 

[cjeducator]

I apologize for not clarifying. I should have just said "second pump" or "separate pump" as it relates to the pool and spa. We have a third pump but that is irrelevant to our discussion since it powers the waterfall feature. So when I said "extra piping for the third pump" I meant for the second, separate pump dedicated to the spa jets and its specific returns.

We have planned a 7 x 7 spa which to me is a perfect size. Happy to hear yours are both the same size and that there should be no issues with the drains/returns and with piping.

Back and forth and back and forth. Really hope their engineer can figure this out; it seems solvable.

Thank you, ajw22 and stevo777.

 

[cjeducator]

Hi all,

Does cartridge size matter for a water feature? I am comfortable with the size of my proposed cartridge (Jandy CV460) for the pool and spa (approximate gallons is 16,000). They are proposing a CS200 for the water feature. Is this smaller size because the water feature water won't get as "dirty" as the pool and spa? Should I advocate for a larger cartridge? Can I switch easily to a larger cartridge down the road if need be? Does any of this have major implications?

Thanks!

 

[ajw22]

Hi all,

Does cartridge size matter for a water feature?

No. The water feature filter is just there to catch debris and keep ot from clogging the water feature.

Your primary filter should be doing all the real work of filtering the water.

I am comfortable with the size of my proposed cartridge (Jandy CV460) for the pool and spa (approximate gallons is 16,000). They are proposing a CS200 for the water feature. Is this smaller size because the water feature water won't get as "dirty" as the pool and spa?

The CS200 is fine to protect the water features from getting debris.

Should I advocate for a larger cartridge? Can I switch easily to a larger cartridge down the road if need be? Does any of this have major implications?

Your filter mix seems fine.

 

[cjeducator]

Thank you so much, ajw.

Another quick question, if you have a second. Trying to think through the horsepower of my air blower for the spa. I know residential spas have 1hp, 1.5hp, and 2hp, and what I've found online recommends that for 8+ jets, we should have a 2hp.

We are going to have two sets of four jet clusters, plus four floor jets.

I'm being gently cautioned against 2hp because apparently, if its too powerful, sometimes the air doesn't mix well with the water to make a good powerful jet hitting your back - and instead, you get air pockets that just bubble up to the surface of the water.

Have any of you experienced this? I feel like 2hp is the way to go for strength of jet across all of these jets, but maybe this word of caution should be heeded.

I just wanted to hear other perspectives. As always, thank you for your time and input.

 

[ajw22]

I'm being gently cautioned against 2hp because apparently, if its too powerful, sometimes the air doesn't mix well with the water to make a good powerful jet hitting your back - and instead, you get air pockets that just bubble up to the surface of the water.

And I will caution you that too small of an air blower will not be able to overcome and mix with the water flow and will overheat and shutdown.

The blower size has to be engineered for the pump and plumbing and jets. We see many posts either about spas with blowers that overheat and shutdown or they blow the water out of the spa. No one in the build looked at the entire spa plumbing system with the spa jet pump size, the blower size, and what the plumber does, and did the engineering calculations to confirm it will work. I think many builders don;t have the engineering understanding to do that.

Jandy has a worksheet in https://www.jandy.com/-/media/zodia...7900.pdf?rev=f5dddb965c824a6f9555f1954efb3c98 to calculate the proper blower size.

Note that Jandy says "Do not install adjustable jets. These may cause excessive back pressure" and I think your
CMP jet clusters are adjustable.

Do you have someone certifying that your spa jet design and mix of equipment will work as you expect? If not you are doing a science experiment that may or may not work and you will only find out after it is enclosed in 6 inches of concrete.

 

[cjeducator]

Hello everyone,
It's been a minute. We're about midway through the build; decking should start soon. We have 16x24 tiles to be installed as a deck, and we envision an infinity deck, where the deck goes seamlessly all the way to the edge of the pool, instead of having a separate coping that goes around the perimeter of the pool and joins the edge of the pool to the rest of the deck. I did some searches online and on this forum for "infinity deck" but there isn't anything useful. I wanted to hear some of your thoughts related to this. Thanks for your time and help, as always. ~CJ

 

[ajw22]

Hello everyone,
It's been a minute. We're about midway through the build; decking should start soon. We have 16x24 tiles to be installed as a deck, and we envision an infinity deck, where the deck goes seamlessly all the way to the edge of the pool, instead of having a separate coping that goes around the perimeter of the pool and joins the edge of the pool to the rest of the deck. I did some searches online and on this forum for "infinity deck" but there isn't anything useful. I wanted to hear some of your thoughts related to this. Thanks for your time and help, as always. ~CJ

You must have an expansion joint that separates the tiles on the bond beam from the deck. The pool and the deck need to be two independent structures that can can move separately. Otherwise the deck can put pressure in the pool bond beam and crack it.

Expansion Joints and Coping - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

 

[cjeducator]

Hello everyone,
It's been a minute.
Here's my old and initial thread which apparently is inactive and so it was suggested I start a new thread - here goes:

We're about midway through the build; decking should start soon. We have 16x24 tiles to be installed as a deck, and we envision an infinity deck, where the deck goes seamlessly all the way to the edge of the pool, instead of having a separate coping that goes around the perimeter of the pool and joins the edge of the pool to the rest of the deck. I did some searches online and on this forum for "infinity deck" but there isn't anything useful. I wanted to hear some of your thoughts related to this.

Thanks for your time and help, as always. ~CJ

 

[elleb]

Cool! Can you share pictures of your progress?

 

[cjeducator]

Cool! Can you share pictures of your progress?

Of course. I'm sorry I hadn't yet. Please see attached.

 

[cjeducator]

Hi friends,
Decking is done. I wanted to share some a new pic, and then I have a couple of questions (in my next post).
Thanks for all the support!
CJ

 

[cjeducator]

Hi friends,
I wanted to get your input on the coping around the hot tub (first pic) and pool (second pic). You can see that the coping overhang is seemingly standard (say, 2" or 50mm) for both the hot tub and pool. It's hard to see but the edges of each tile that overhang into the hot tub and pool have been blunted/curved so they are not sharp.

My uninformed thoughts are that this 2" overhang on pool is totally fine. For the pool, a kid or adult can just grab ahold of it easier than if it was flush with the inside of the pool wall. For the hot tub, though, I'm concerned. I sat in the hot tub (facing the waterfall wall on the far side of the pool) and the 2" overhang pokes into my upper back. It's not comfortable. It dissuades me from wanting to sit there. That's not good.

So, I'm thinking maybe the coping around the hot tub should not overhang but should be flush with the inside of the hot tub wall for this very reason.

This would be fine/easy/awesome if the hot tub was not recessed, but it is, and it shares two walls of the pool (so to speak). So it may be super weird and unattractive to have most of the pool with a 2" overhanging coping and then where the recessed hot tub is, have that coping flush.

SIGH. Please help. Thank you so much for your time.
CJ