TF 100 Test kit arrived

[Johnny B]

I want to go test my pool water but I'm running low on R-0871, have it ordered, and since I have results from the extreme bucket test I assume you want that data?

I wanted to see what I get fom the pool vs. Leslies but time is passing so that it getting less accurate; reason I didn't test ASAP after Leslies is I am conserving my R-0871.

 

[frustratedpoolmom]

Bucket test results, done 1 hr after the bleach went in as advised.
FC 14-15
So according to the instuctions I am done w the test.Please advise.
I can add bleach now or around 6:00pm the sun will be off the water.

When I add the bleach, please also give about the amount of time it should take for me to "slowly add" it. 4 minutes? 15 min? 30 min?

I am going to order some R-0871 online w Duraleigh.
After that I will attemp to figure out how much Bleach to add & compare to what you guys say.
I need to go study that link on the bucket test & the charts etc. But your help is needed, especially since I may not get my R-0871 in time (Easter etc). I'd really like to not start over

No You are NOT done. According to the instructions:
7) If FC is 10 or higher on the first round, repeat the entire test with fresh pool water and use teaspoons instead of oz of bleach.

Each oz of bleach is equal to 96 ppm of chlorine. Each teaspoon of bleach is equal to 16 ppm of chlorine.

...you are not "done" you need to follow step 7.

Follow the FC levels on the CYA chart for 30ppm 2, 4 and 12.

So your target for "shock level" is 12....going slightly higher won't hurt. This is going to mean lots of patience and frequent additions of chlorine to keep your shock level consistent at 12.

Pour in slowly in front of the return simply means not so fast that it splashes all over. You do NOT need to space out the chlorine over a 30 minute period, or even 4 minutes. Just carefully pour the bleach in in front of the return, a continuous stream that doesn't cause splashing (you are avoiding getting it on your skin, eyes or the pool surfaces, ok?).

Don't worry about the Leslie's test....it would appear their test only goes up to 5 so that doesn't help us at all....And since the TAC is identical, they probably didn't do it right. Oh well.

What about the Petshop...any ammonia results?

Did I miss anything else? I gotta leave in about 5 minutes....

 

[Johnny B]

No You are NOT done. According to the instructions:
7) If FC is 10 or higher on the first round, repeat the entire test with fresh pool water and use teaspoons instead of oz of bleach.

So no initial 1 oz, right? start w teaspoons from the start, right


Follow the FC levels on the CYA chart for 30ppm 2, 4 and 12.

So your target for "shock level" is 12....going slightly higher won't hurt. This is going to mean lots of patience and frequent additions of chlorine to keep your shock level consistent at 12.

I see this but can't figure the bleach amount. I still can't know bleach amount till the bucket test is done, right?


What about the Petshop...any ammonia results?
I'll get it sonn

 

[frustratedpoolmom]

Right, start over 5 fresh gallons of pool water and use a tspoon of bleach.

But in the meantime if you want to add more chlorine, you can use 12 as your shock target, plug that in to the "target" column for the pool calc and whatever your last result was for the Now column and then calculate for your dose. I don't see your last test result other than the Leslie's test and the bucket test....what was your last FC that you tested yourself? That's your "now" and put in 12 for "target". and then calculate.

I have to go, back at 7pm.

 

[Johnny B]

My last FC was 1.5.
Where is "Shock Target" on the calc.? I only see FC Now & Target

If that then 3 gallons 1 quart or 4.5 (96 oz) jugs, right.
See you at 7pm I hope.
Going now to:
1- redo bucket test- how embarassing
2-pet shop check for amonia.

I can add Cl all night long ! I'll wake up each hr if I need to. Let me know & I'll do it ( I know you guys won'y be here at 3am to help but I'll be posting if you say so.

 

[Johnny B]

I'll add bleach in pool in next hour or so- sunlight will be absent

 

[JasonLion]

Leslie's showed FC at 5 and TC at 5. I suspect they were using a DPD test, where the maximum value is five. So the only thing we can really conclude from that is that FC was at least 5 and also that FC wasn't all that high (because the DPD test bleaches out and reads zero when FC is really high). CC could have been practically anything, because TC would max out at 5, and FC was already at least 5.

Your CYA reading agrees with theirs. Other than that all of the numbers are enough different from yours that I am concerned. Pool stores are not known for their test accuracy, but they usually get several of the numbers right.

When you did the extreme chlorine demand test, did you measure a CC level?

 

[JasonLion]

Now might be a good time to redo the TA and CH tests at least twice each. You can get some more practice with testing and not use up any more R-0871 practicing. Plus, TA and CH shouldn't be changing, so when you do the test more than once you really ought to be getting the same value each time.

I noticed that several of your results seem to be higher than the pool store results. I wonder if you are not forming drops properly. You should hold the reagent vial vertically, so the tip points straight down, and squeeze gently so there is just enough pressure to form a drop slowly, a the drop grows, it will fall off "naturally" when it gets to the correct size. There shouldn't be any "jets" or sputter. Also, you should wipe the dropper tip once in a while with a clean spot of tissue paper to remove any static charge.

 

[Johnny B]

Your CYA reading agrees with theirs. Other than that all of the numbers are enough different from yours that I am concerned. Pool stores are not known for their test accuracy, but they usually get several of the numbers right.

When you did the extreme chlorine demand test, did you measure a CC level?

I trust me before Leslies butI trust your instinct over mine for this/pools- so I'll go w your guess.

Only did FC, didn't see CC in the instructions.
Suggestion (in case you get another guy like me): edit that "6) If FC is 10 or higher you are done" to read: "If FC is 10 or higher, dump the water & go to step 7"

 

[Johnny B]

Now might be a good time to redo the TA and CH tests at least twice each. You can get some more practice with testing and not use up any more R-0871 practicing. Plus, TA and CH shouldn't be changing, so when you do the test more than once you really ought to be getting the same value each time.

I noticed that several of your results seem to be higher than the pool store results. I wonder if you are not forming drops properly. You should hold the reagent vial vertically, so the tip points straight down, and squeeze gently so there is just enough pressure to form a drop slowly, a the drop grows, it will fall off "naturally" when it gets to the correct size. There shouldn't be any "jets" or sputter. Also, you should wipe the dropper tip once in a while with a clean spot of tissue paper to remove any static charge.

I'm forming drops as you say, will pay attention anyways, will tissue wipe.

Ill redo TA & CH twice & report back

Amonia test results:
7:15pm
about 2.5 It was betw 1 & 3 closer to 3
NH2/NH3 ppm (mg/L).
Yes it was the freash water (not salt water)

They do it for free (I shop there), strips are $12

Jason, you want me to shock?
How much, 4.5 (96 oz) jugs?

Bucket test 1st hr is due in 15 min

Thanks

 

[Johnny B]

Unbelievable.
My above post, that I have now edited, said my 1st bucket test FC 14-15. Wrong ! I forgot to multiply by 0.5 so 7-7.5 is correct FC.

1- I assume you want me to dump my second bucket test (where I was adding teaspoons instead of oz) & start over w the oz method?

2- If yes, I can add 2 oz right at the start & eval in 1hour? Since we don't need that 1st hour because I know it already ( it was just a few hours ago, 2 hrs or less of sunlight & the temp is cool)

Most embarassing

 

[frustratedpoolmom]

Unbelievable.
My above post, that I have now edited, said my 1st bucket test FC 14-15. Wrong ! I forgot to multiply by 0.5 so 7-7.5 is correct FC.

1- I assume you want me to dump my second bucket test (where I was adding teaspoons instead of oz) & start over w the oz method?

2- If yes, I can add 2 oz right at the start & eval in 1hour? Since we don't need that 1st hour because I know it already ( it was just a few hours ago, 2 hrs or less of sunlight & the temp is cool)

Most embarassing

I'll wait for Jason to chime in about this test because I have zero experience with it.

But that fact that the Ammonia test was positive has got to mean something.....we'll get this figured out! POP, more POP my friend!

(Pool Owner Patience....)

 

[Guest]

Unbelievable.
My above post, that I have now edited, said my 1st bucket test FC 14-15. Wrong ! I forgot to multiply by 0.5 so 7-7.5 is correct FC.

1- I assume you want me to dump my second bucket test (where I was adding teaspoons instead of oz) & start over w the oz method?

2- If yes, I can add 2 oz right at the start & eval in 1hour? Since we don't need that 1st hour because I know it already ( it was just a few hours ago, 2 hrs or less of sunlight & the temp is cool)

Most embarassing

I know there is a lot going on but you need to slow down and take it easy and do the testing correctly...This is why i said before you seemed chaotic. You seem to make a lot of careless errors. How can we help you overcome this?

 

[JasonLion]

Waterbear is right. It really helps to be slow and methodical. Making mistakes can cause expensive problems (depending on the mistake).

The ammonia test result helps, that means we are on the right track. You do indeed have ammonia in the pool and it will take extreme amounts of chlorine to burn it off. That helps the previous test results make sense as well.

The 1 oz of bleach in the bucket test tells us that you need at least 96 ppm of chlorine, and presumably more. Hopefully not too much more, the FC level was 7ish, so the reaction was starting to slow down. However, and this is important, you don't want the FC level in the pool ever going above 20, so you can't just add the chlorine all at once.

Basically you want to follow the exact same procedure as shocking the pool, as in the Pool School article. I suggest making your target FC shock level 15 as before, so you have some headroom and are really sure you don't go over 20.

You can do the bucket test again, more carefully, but that isn't essential. We have enough information now to know that you won't need 800 ppm of chlorine, or anything ridiculous like that. So I suggest going ahead and doing the whole pool.

It is most efficient to only add chlorine in the evenings. During the day a fair bit of the chlorine will be lost to sunlight. Adding chlorine during the day will speed things up, but it will also waste chlorine, you choice.

 

[Johnny B]

I know there is a lot going on but you need to slow down and take it easy and do the testing correctly...This is why i said before you seemed chaotic. You seem to make a lot of careless errors. How can we help you overcome this?

This was a careless error. I like to think my other errors were typical of a rookie. "How can we help you overcome this?: you can't do anything for me in this area, I have to do that- I want it, I'll try harder. I'm going slow. I don't see this as something to do fast.

Waiting on Jason & answers to the other questions I asked.

Thanks

 

[Johnny B]

Thanks Jason
I enetred FC 1.5, Target 15, & the result says to add 4 gallons 2 quarts or 5.9 (96 oz) jugs.
I assume I enetered the proper data?

Sorry, I don't really understand the lower Blue section on the calc that keeps getting referred to. It is mentioning ppm, right? How is it relevat to the data I enter in the top yellow section? In the top yellow section I enter the FC & Target FC & it gives the amount to add. The shock in lower blue section says 6. Can someone pls explain how I need to be using this 6 figure.

Jason & others mention "I suggest making your target FC shock level 15". How do you know that? I'm sure I am supoposed to know that by now, sorrry. You shock if you have algae, or the (CC) level is above 0.5, or the free chlorine (FC) level is zero.
Shocking:
1) Measure the FC level
2) Add enough chlorine to bring FC up to shock level
Where is this "shock level", how do you/I determine "shock level"?

It is a relief to know you are making progress on my results.
No problem adding bleach only at night. I can always do that, right? Or could there be a case where you want me to add it daytime ( just so I know)?
Reason I ask:
"Shocking:
1) Measure the FC level
2) Add enough chlorine to bring FC up to shock level
3) Repeat steps 1 and 2 as frequently as possible, as often as once per hour, and not less than twice a day, until the FC level remains the same overnight and CC is 0.5 or lower."
So, all shockings ideally done in sunless hours, right?

Guys, I plan to test, & shock if indicated, hourly tonight.
I simply put in my FC, whatever that tests to be, & my goal reamains 15, right?

Thanks for tolerating me guys, sincerely.

 

[frustratedpoolmom]

My comments are in Bold and Italic below....

Thanks Jason
I enetred FC 1.5, Target 15, & the result says to add 4 gallons 2 quarts or 5.9 (96 oz) jugs.
I assume I enetered the proper data?

I get 4 gallons 1 qt... your gallons is 19,800, right?

Sorry, I don't really understand the lower Blue section on the calc that keeps getting referred to. It is mentioning ppm, right? How is it relevat to the data I enter in the top yellow section? In the top yellow section I enter the FC & Target FC & it gives the amount to add. The shock in lower blue section says 6. Can someone pls explain how I need to be using this 6 figure.

I don't see "6". Do you mean the recommended levels? I see between "3 and 7" and shock to 15. These do vary slightly from the "CYA Chart" in my signature...but it's not something to concern yourself with right now. Just shock to 15.

Jason & others mention "I suggest making your target FC shock level 15". How do you know that?

This is why we rely on the expertise of folks like Jason and Waterbear...they have dealt with hundreds if not thousands of pool issue reports like yours and they know what works. The Pool Forum was around before TFP and there was this guy named Ben....oh never mind. Shock to 15 cause Jason says so! LOL. Trust me, we won't steer you wrong....

I'm sure I am supoposed to know that by now, sorrry.

No you're not. You are overwhelmed and we have all been there at one point or another, nothing to apologize for.

You shock if you have algae, or the (CC) level is above 0.5, or the free chlorine (FC) level is zero.
Shocking:
1) Measure the FC level
2) Add enough chlorine to bring FC up to shock level
Where is this "shock level", how do you/I determine "shock level"?

Your shock level is based on your CYA level. In this case we are having you shock to 15, per Jason's recommendation.

It is a relief to know you are making progress on my results.
No problem adding bleach only at night. I can always do that, right? Or could there be a case where you want me to add it daytime ( just so I know)?
Reason I ask:
"Shocking:
1) Measure the FC level
2) Add enough chlorine to bring FC up to shock level
3) Repeat steps 1 and 2 as frequently as possible, as often as once per hour, and not less than twice a day, until the FC level remains the same overnight and CC is 0.5 or lower."
So, all shockings ideally done in sunless hours, right?

Guys, I plan to test, & shock if indicated, hourly tonight.
I simply put in my FC, whatever that tests to be, & my goal reamains 15, right?

YES. Exactly. Pop, more pop! We will help you get this figured out...

Thanks for tolerating me guys, sincerely.

We're here to help. I know you are overwhelmed and frustrated...and I know EXACTLY how you feel...but I'm telling you this will be fine.

 

[Johnny B]

Me in this print/font

I get 4 gallons 1 qt... your gallons is 19,800, right?

Yes,19,800 gal, CYA 30. I still get 4 gallons 2 quarts or 5.9 (96 oz) jugs.

I don't see "6". Do you mean the recommended levels? I see between "3 and 7" and shock to 15. These do vary slightly from the "CYA Chart" in my signature...but it's not something to concern yourself with right now. Just shock to 15.

The “6” in the lower blue section of the calc.
And where do you see “between "3 and 7" and shock to 15”? On the calc? Or another chart because I don’t see it on the CYA?Cl chart

Shock to 15 cause Jason says so! LOL. Trust me, we won't steer you wrong....
Oh I trust you guys! I feel I’m ticking guys guys off so I’m trying to learn so I can stop pestering them so much because I need your help & I don’t want to come across as lazy.

Your shock level is based on your CYA level. In this case we are having you shock to 15, per Jason's recommendation.OK, Your shock level is based on your CYA level, but its indicated based on if you have algae, or the (CC) level is above 0.5, or the free chlorine (FC) level is zero. How does he derive 15? What do we do when Jason tires of us & dumps us- the horror!

I’ve put in 5.9 jugs 96oz, (hope I didn'y goof) plan to test, shock if indicated, hourly tonight.

Thanks for your help poolmom.

 

[frustratedpoolmom]

LOL.... what do we do if Jason dumps us? Despair and do a Thelma and Louise....

Okay if I changed the pool calc input to a "now" input of 1fc I get what you get. I had 1.5. I also had the CYA that said 40. Changed it to 30 and I see your "6".

"6" is your top range of "normal" for your target. This is once everything is resolved. Once we get this pool figured out...your "range" will be 2-6. So, you don't EVER want to let your FC drop below 2, and your 6 is a good target to "dose" your liquid chlorine to. So for example, I'll test, and dose to 6, and that in theory, should last me for at least a day or more before it drops to 2 or 3 (from swimmers and sunlight) before I bump that FC back up to 6. Does that make sense? Your recommended shock level according to that section is 13. But, we're sticking to 15 for now because JASON SAYS SO, and I trust him.

We don't think you're lazy. Believe me, this overwhelming kind of sensation you are experiencing happens more often than not.

I'm glad to help, because I have walked in your flip-flops.

 

[JasonLion]

99% of the answer you need is simply to understand how the Suggested FC Levels section of my Pool Calculator works. The tricky part, which you really should ignore, is that The Pool Calculator will tell you something slightly different than what I told you. That difference is me being "too clever" and isn't really all that important.

If you go to my Pool Calculator and enter your current CYA level, 30, in the Now column and hit tab, you can look down at the Suggested FC Levels section 2/3rds of the way towards the bottom and see that normal shock level is 13. So in the normal every day world you could pick an FC shock of 13 and everything will be just fine.

Shocking only at night is mostly because this is ammonia and not algae. If it was algae there would be more motivation to shock during the day. You don't want to give algae a full day to grow and get ahead of you. But the ammonia will wait so there isn't any point in wasting chlorine to sunlight.

Below are some extra details of why I said 15 instead of 13. I recommend that you ignore everything below here.

When dealing with ammonia you want to add chlorine as quickly as possible without damaging anything. However, if FC gets too high there can be problems. How high "too high" is depends on your CYA level. You don't generally want to go above mustard algae shock level by very much. So, in round numbers, just about 20 is as high as you ever want FC to go while CYA is 30.

You have been making mistakes, so you don't want to go all the way up to 20. 20 plus a mistake would be too high. I figure that 15 is a nice reasonably high FC level that still leaves you 5 more ppm to make a mistake before there could possibly be a problem. For normal day to day algae, shocking to 13 would be fine. But we want to speed things up a little so I am recommending something higher.