Test kit in ... let the SLAMing begin!

[needsajet]

The hydrostatic valves I've seen here are kept closed by a stainless steel spring and they open if pressure outside the pool exceeds pressure inside the pool. Your property and the pool would have to be lower than the surrounding land for ground water pressure to exceed the pressure from the water in the pool. You would probably notice some dirt or dirt colour in the water down in the main drain if this was happening. Sometimes they get stuck open during the build from grit or no o-ring and that type of thing, but not real likely. That type needs to be replaced every 6 or 7 years.

That did get me wondering about the extra pipe riser in your equipment picture, which I believe is attached to your main drain (the one in the pool, not the one in the cover pit), but hasn't been used for anything. Is there any sign of water seeping out of that? Is the cap on that pipe glued or just stuck on it to keep it clean? Sorry, grasping at straws a bit, but we need to figure out where the calcium went! There's only a few things that can cause the CH reading to drop - water removal and replacement with lower CH water (e.g. backwash, overflow, drain-refill, or a leak), and testing error.

TA will drop from acid additions. CYA does drop slowly always, but much more from water replacement.

 

[buballodingo]

Ok...so I have had the bucket in for some time now. The weather has been horrible. But rain not so intense. The bucket water level and pool level are still exactly the same. Is it safe to assume no leak or do I need a few days dry weather?


I will test chlorine again tomorrow as I have had the SWG on 100% for the last wee as well to see if it makes a difference.

 

[needsajet]

Nope, you've ruled that out. Good to know.

 

[Caco]

Great no leak, awesome news!!

 

[buballodingo]

Im excited!!! Finally some test results that are good. I did not touch my water since the last test and everything has improved:

	FC	CC	pH	TA	CH	CYA	Salt	Borate	Temp	CSI	Notes
5/03/2017 10:51	2.5	0.5	7.6	50	125	15	3400			-0.16	Put SWG to 100% 12pm on . Before this it was 60%.. CYA was again below 30. I guessed 15 so the added 690mg CYA 26/2 had no impact or water overflowing from rain and cover opening could be replacing CYA water with rain water?
12/03/2017 18:19	11.0	0.5	7.6	75	150				24.00	-1.02

SO when my SWG is not operating at 100% it is no where near as effective. Im currently running it 10.5 hours which more than required for my pool I think so I will leave at 100% and adjust down 1 hour at a time during the week and test again next saturday.

My salt tested at 3400ppm and I was going to add salt. There is no salt light indicator on my SWG so I will keep running salt low and see what happens. I just dont understand why:

1. Salt dropped from 5000 in the previous week to 3400ppm;
2. My TA has increase to a perfect level from the last test;

I will add CYA 30ppm at a time until I get it at the right level. In either event, no leak, no algae and chlorine is up.

Back to my SWG- do you think I have problem or before lowering hours of run time should I try to drop the %? I assume 100% t lower run time is actually more cost effective?

Thanks

 

[needsajet]

Not everyone would agree by any means, but yeh, to me it seems cheapest to run it at 100%. It definitely is for a single speed pump. (yay, we don't have those)

I run for 8 hrs per day because the pool stays skimmed and cleaned for all the hours I want it to look nicest. SWG is at 50%. But if cover is on, it's 4 hrs pump time and 100%. With the variable speed pump though, I think the cost difference is very small.

Hey great to hear about your numbers, mate And more than that, it's great to know about your taking control of the pool. And you've learned a ton which you can share with others any time you want. Cheers to TFP!

A CSI at -1.0 is not what you want, but your numbers don't look like a -1 to me. It is a bit low though, and with the rainy season coming, I would raise CH to 250.

 

[buballodingo]

I have a variable speed pump. Which reminds me - do you think pump speed impacts SWG efficiency. The 2 changes I have made are SWG at 100% and pump speed from Eco to medium which is 1400rpm to 2400rpm?

Good point about CSI. To be honest It has not been something I have foused on, but now with the pool looking ok it is definitely something that needs my attention. I plugged in some numbers and at my optimal levels CSI is about -1.14,
That is with:

FC = 9
CC = 0.5
TA = 75
CH = 250
CYA = 80
Salt = 4000
Temp = 27

So how do you get the CSI to work if your numbers dont allow it? Have I missed something?

 

[Jezza]

Buballodingo I make your CSI at -0.43 with those figures with ph at 7.6 (and I rounded your TA to 80).

That figure should be fine but it will drop as the water temperature drops so letting your pH drift up to 7.8 and to then hold it would be ideal but I would be adding some calcium to get it up to the 350 mark which is the recommended range for a concrete pool.

Running your pump on low shouldn't affect your SWG levels as long as there is enough flow to keep your SWG happy.

 

[buballodingo]

Buballodingo I make your CSI at -0.43 with those figures with ph at 7.6 (and I rounded your TA to 80).

That figure should be fine but it will drop as the water temperature drops so letting your pH drift up to 7.8 and to then hold it would be ideal but I would be adding some calcium to get it up to the 350 mark which is the recommended range for a concrete pool.

Running your pump on low shouldn't affect your SWG levels as long as there is enough flow to keep your SWG happy.

Good pickup Jezza. CSI on Jesses' pool calculator is different from the Pool math website. I was looking at the excel sheet. I entered the numbers online and got yours. Thanks for that.

 

[buballodingo]

I must have done something really bad in a former life. How do I go from FC 2.5 to 11.0 and back down to 0?

5/03/2017 10:51	2.5	0.5
12/03/2017 18:19	11.0	0.5
17/03/2017 18:13	0.0	0.5

How is my CC 0.5? Pool has a bit of yellow in it. So it is algae back again...I Just dont understand how this can happen from 5/3 to 17/3. I was on top of this thing and had the first positive result in a while.

SLAM again...over it.

I put in FC 10 chlorine (1650ml) and the filter on 24/7 and on super chlorinate overnight. I am hoping I have hit it early enough it will be quick. My only concern is I put enough CYA to get to 70ppm last week. I cant test it now as it is getting dark. Will test in the morning and play with my chlorine and go from there. I wonder if my pool cover delays allows balanced water lower in the pool to overflow during a rain event? Still doesnt explain how my fc spiked from 5/3 to 12/3?

 

[Stooge007]

Mate, I feel for you! Nothing going right. Good luck!

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

 

[needsajet]

Mate, I feel for you! Nothing going right. Good luck!

+1

Is there any green in the cover slats?
Is there any runoff finding its way into the pool?
Any chance the unused main drain has an algae farm inside?

 

[buballodingo]

No to slats... yes to run off but only the 1m paths around pool...main drain possible but i was told its not connected and only a relief valve....

Sent from my SM-G928I using Tapatalk

 

[needsajet]

Normally a hydrostatic valve goes in the deepest drain, but who knows! Maybe the pool drain isn't plumbed, but just seems weird that it wouldn't be.

There's an equipment pic back in post #47 that shows an unused pipe (bottom left corner). It looks like it has a threaded cap on it. I'm hoping that's coming from the main drain in the pool (not the one in the pit). If not, great, but just trying to eliminate something that could be causing problems. Your situation is hard to figure out!

To find out where that goes, I'd buy a few adapters and attach a garden hose to it, run water into it and see where the water comes out.

Dropping to 2.5 ppm FC wasn't good, and maybe that's all it is, but your apparent day-to-day FC consumption also seems too high, suggesting nascent algae since your last SLAM. One day at 2.5 wouldn't be that bad, but if it was several, it would be enough to let the algae get underway.

Fresh water floats on salt water until it mixes in and causes whatever dilution (rainfall divided by pool depth; 190 mm so far this month so maybe 15% of your water)

I do feel for ya. Your pool shouldn't be a pain, mate.

 

[buballodingo]

Normally a hydrostatic valve goes in the deepest drain, but who knows! Maybe the pool drain isn't plumbed, but just seems weird that it wouldn't be.

I have 2 hydrostatic valves. One in the pit under the pool cover and one in the deep end of the pool. The one in the pit is connected and functional. The other I was advised was just the valve without connection. I am waiting for the pool guy to come and confirm though as there is also a pipe coming out at the base of the filter that bends back into my drainage point in the pool room which is unaccounted for. In the pick it is right in the front of the filter at the base and has 2 90 degree bends on it.

There's an equipment pic back in post #47 that shows an unused pipe (bottom left corner). It looks like it has a threaded cap on it. I'm hoping that's coming from the main drain in the pool (not the one in the pit). If not, great, but just trying to eliminate something that could be causing problems. Your situation is hard to figure out!

To find out where that goes, I'd buy a few adapters and attach a garden hose to it, run water into it and see where the water comes out.

I tested this one. There is a spare return under my skimmer that is connected to this point. I was actually thinking of connected in to suction as it is near the skimmer and may impact skimming or can I connect it as a return.

Will add a couple of pic of my pool surround shortly.

Dropping to 2.5 ppm FC wasn't good, and maybe that's all it is, but your apparent day-to-day FC consumption also seems too high, suggesting nascent algae since your last SLAM. One day at 2.5 wouldn't be that bad, but if it was several, it would be enough to let the algae get underway.

I didnt drop it intentionally if that was what you were thinking? The FC levels were dropping more than usual and I was picking it up and adding chlorine as well as playing with my swg %.

Fresh water floats on salt water until it mixes in and causes whatever dilution (rainfall divided by pool depth; 190 mm so far this month so maybe 15% of your water)

I do feel for ya. Your pool shouldn't be a pain, mate.

The overflow pipe which is on top of the top step is 100mm below the top water level so maybe the good stuff is overflowing.

Here is another thing I noticed this morning and am unsure if it s a sign as they were not there yesterday..I have 10 worms dead in the base of my pool? I usually have the odd 1 or 2 but I clean the pool 2 times a week. This is the most I have seen?

 

[buballodingo]

Brushed the pool and removed the worms with the pool net. Did some tests after having the fiter running over night on superchlorinate...still on the SC cycle.

FC 15. I only put enought chlorine to get to FC10 so SWG doing its job.
pH at 7.4
CYA at 60

If there is any good news it is I havd a CYA reading for once. I put enough in last week to get to 70 so that is pretty close.

I could not be bothered vacuuming so may do that tomorrow. If there is a bit of sun I will go in and check under the pit lid.

Cover looks clean. The worms are a mistery, as is the return of algae. Could it be the amount of rain in sydney? ANy one else in sydney going through this?

My FC should be at 24 for SLAM at CYA 60 but will wait till tomorrow as pool still overflowing from rain and SC cycle still on.

Question if I test the over flow water...should the FC be lower or what else do I test to see what is overflowing?

Edit: Overflow water was slightly lower at FC 13.

 

[needsajet]

Testing TA for overflow vs. the pool water is a reliable indicator. (you probably have plenty of test supplies for that as well). Good to hear that the SWC is pumping out the FC as it should be.

Nope, I didn't mean to infer that you intentionally dropped to 2.5 ppm FC. It was only mentioned to explain that falling that low can have repercussions (if left low). So you want to set your chem program so that no matter what happens, you don't fall below the minimum. Also testing every couple of days will help ensure you don't get low FC.

But yeh, I would SLAM it again as soon as possible. Presence of algae is one of the triggers.

Yep, just scoop the worms when you can, cause they'll waste chlorine getting bleached. Me too, lotsa worms. The rain is massive wow!!! We've had around 150 mm the last two days. My pools are maintaining chlorine and getting too much if I don't turn them down (crappy weather, no swimming, little sun). Had to pump them down today.

I'm getting junk off the pool surround in our pool, which is using some extra FC no doubt. I'm leaving the pool covered with the cleaner running, but open up if the sun shines. I can see a robot in your equipment pad pic. That could you out with the brushing

 

[kimkats]

I know large amounts rain always messes up my pool. I am sure it is because of adding new water and losing my balanced water.

You just cannot catch a break. I was hoping to see things have evened out. It will be interesting to hear what you see if you are able to swim down for a look in the pit.

Kim

 

[duraleigh]

I have not been following this thread but want to jump in. Some of this will sound harsh but, after 475 posts, you should be in a better position of understanding.

Why in the world are you testing overflow water? Once water is out of your pool, it has no bearing on keeping your pool clean and I can't understand why you are testing it.

It sounds like you are using your SWG to approach a SLAM.......that is incorrect. If you are going to SLAM the pool, SLAM the pool. The SWG should not be used to bring the FC up to SLAM value or to maintain it. You must follow the SLAM article perfectly if you intend to get rid of your algae issues once and for all.

Have you read the SLAM article??

You have a beautiful pool and there is no reason it cannot be crystal clear and algae free. Reading back a bit, it sounds like your testing has been to sparse and that you have never had a clear understanding of SLAmming your pool not consistent application of FC to keep your pool clear.

I hope you will re-read "The "ABC's of Pool Water Chemistry" up in Pool School. I hope you will also gain the discipline of correct and timely testing so your great looking pool can become algae free.

There are no miracles or "magic" in what we teach.......it is simply a disciplined, precise approach to pool water chemistry that should not be a mystery.

 

[buballodingo]

I have not been following this thread but want to jump in. Some of this will sound harsh but, after 475 posts, you should be in a better position of understanding.

Why in the world are you testing overflow water? Once water is out of your pool, it has no bearing on keeping your pool clean and I can't understand why you are testing it.

It sounds like you are using your SWG to approach a SLAM.......that is incorrect. If you are going to SLAM the pool, SLAM the pool. The SWG should not be used to bring the FC up to SLAM value or to maintain it. You must follow the SLAM article perfectly if you intend to get rid of your algae issues once and for all.

Have you read the SLAM article??

You have a beautiful pool and there is no reason it cannot be crystal clear and algae free. Reading back a bit, it sounds like your testing has been to sparse and that you have never had a clear understanding of SLAmming your pool not consistent application of FC to keep your pool clear.

I hope you will re-read "The "ABC's of Pool Water Chemistry" up in Pool School. I hope you will also gain the discipline of correct and timely testing so your great looking pool can become algae free.

There are no miracles or "magic" in what we teach.......it is simply a disciplined, precise approach to pool water chemistry that should not be a mystery.

Duraleigh,
For me that was more than a bit harsh. I have never owned a pool, tested one or otherwise till I test prior to Christmas. SO for me, this has been a great feat despite your thoughts. Its not just about the testing it was also trying to educate myself on what equipment I had, what they did and how to use it.

I apologise for not being intelligent enough to be in a "better position of understanding."
I apologise for leaving my SWG on while we have constant rain.
I apologise for my testing being sparse whilst I work 80 hours a week and take care of my 3 kids.

I have read all the articles and vids on the forum I am grateful for them, again I can only apologise for being as dumb as I am for not knowing better at this time.
I apologise to everyone for the time I wasted in posting and seeking your help, I really appreciate all your help sincerely

Duraleigh, I appreciate your help and "magic" reply. Thank you for noting the number of posts it has taken me to fail and still not really understand what you teach.