Test kit in ... let the SLAMing begin!

[Caco]

Well ideally it needs to be after sunset and before sunrise
I would say 8.30pm your time would be fine for the evening test

What are you whining about?? Sunrise is at 5.53 so not that early!!


But as long as the sun has not really got to the pool you should be ok a bit later in the morning



Question for you, does the slats in your pool cover get filled with water when you retract it?
If so would it be better underwater with the FC at shock level?

 

[buballodingo]

Yes that is a very good question. I have been opening and closing the cover a lot today intentionally. Because when its pulling to open it stretched and when closing in probably in compression. So hopefully there is enough Chlorine getting in there. I also opened and closed whilst pressure washing it a couple of times and whilst the mustard coloured sediment looked remarkable improved I am hoping I just havent moved it around abit as oppose to be concentrated in one area. To be honest it is as good as it will get for now until Remco responds.

I havent answered your query though. It probably will be more open, but that is the lowest part of the pool as well, so the concern from my end is that is where all the sediment will settle. If that is the case, do I chlorine bomb the pit some how, or surely that is already done with what we have done today. Another query is the chlorine more concentrated at the bottom or top or is it the same?

Is it worth testing CYA tonight as well with the OCLT or do I best to wait another day?

 

[Caco]

I would wait a couple of days on the cya
If you measured accurately it should be the 30ppm we aimed for
CYA disappears very slowly, I think like 1-2ppm per month
Thats why a water change is really the only way to lower it
I only test mine monthly

I agree to wait on what your chlorine does and what Remco respond with before moving further on the cover issue

If the filter is going then the FC should be consistent throughout the pool
I dont think it would necessary be higher or lower anywhere, as long as that area gets good flow
It may layer out to some degree, but I dont think there would be huge ppm changes between the top and bottom of the pool. Nothing that would affect a real world situation
I do know if you have a heater or waterfall that only gets used occasionally then the FC would drop to zero in that part of the pipework with little or no flow and could grow algae
We have seen the same thing happen in ladders and behind pool lights

Do you use your cover regularly? If you use it daily, or at least every second day, I think there would be enough water movement in the area to kill off anything before it became a problem

 

[buballodingo]

I use my cover once or twice a week unless I am away. But good point about the heater and the pool lights but I cant control that now can I. I am getting a seond pump installed shortly to run my heater. They hooked it my filter pump so whenever the water needed to come up to temp the filter would run in addition to its normal morning and evening operation and the chlorine went berzerk. So the heater is off for now and used periodically until they return to fit the separte pump so they can run independently.

I just did the chlorine test. FC 13.5. Now I am not confident in my CC. Different light too. Once I readded the agent totest CC the clear sample when ever so slightly pink. When re-adding the titration to make clear again it went pretty clear on 2 drops so CC = 1 BUT there was still the slightest pink that would not get less by adding more titration..so it was as clear as it got.

PS - You again have really put so much time into helping me today when you really didnt have to..thanks so much.

 

[Caco]

With the heater could you run water through it for 10 min or so at least once a week? That should forestall any problems
When it gets reconnected to the system it may pay to elevate your FC for 24 hours to take care of anything that may be lurking in the pipework

As for the lights the only ones I know of have one screw at the top of them
With the power to the light off, undo the screw and the whole housing should lift out
Should be enough wire to sit it poolside
Then you can use a brush or a cloth and wipe behind there
I would say that is a once a season job
If you cant remove the light, squirt some bleach toward it to try to get behind it
But something for down the track and you are bored

No worries mate. I was so angry about the copper it made me wanna help
Next time i'm in sydney you can buy me a coffee as a ty


Edited
BTW when I mean elevate your FC raise it to slam level for 24 hours

 

[buballodingo]

For sure..let me know when ur down here...now im gonna be thinking about this oclt all night

Sent from my SM-G928I using Tapatalk

 

[Caco]

Well fingers crossed you pass
You deserve to, you've been a crazy chemist all day
If not we just continue with the slam for a few days until you do

will catch up with you tomorrow to see how the OCLT goes
Its getting late and I gotta go into work tomorrow
Was supposed to have this week off, but oh well nm
Hi ho, hi ho, its off to bed I go

 

[needsajet]

Wow, you both work fast!! Well done.

Just double-checking that you're fully informed on acid. Use only hydrochloric acid, available from Bunnings, 32%. It's a liquid.

Don't use dry acid because it includes sulphates. The small amount you've used so far is fine, but over time sulphates build up if you continue using dry acid. Sulphates are a poor mix with SWGs and are not needed in the pool. If levels build up high, cloudiness can develop and eventually precipitates causing other issues.

Great work, keep it up!

 

[kimkats]

Well good morning from FL! That was quite a read! Caco you are AWESOME! You have really taken care of this one on your own and done a GREAT job!

Buba! You are really getting a handle on your pool and the testing and adding to get it all balanced! I can't wait for you to see your pool when it is a TFP!

That cover is very interesting. I can't wait to see what the company has to say about the colored "stuff" in the holes. I am hopeful that once you get everything cleaned and the water balanced you will not have any worries about any of it in the future. Until then Bennings is loving the extra $$ LOL

to Caco for being there! and Buba for being such a willing and quick learner!

Kim

 

[buballodingo]

Probably not the post I want to be making at 5:30 in the morning.

FC 11 dropped from 13.5
CC 2 to 2.5 from 1

I really thought a water replacement would have nailed it.

Pool math saying add 159ml Chlorine 13% to get back up to 12 which was the target SLAM level for CYA 30. In theory, my CYA is currently less than 30 because it takes a couple of days to kick in so wouldnt we be SLAMing at a higher level than required which should also mean algae being killed quicker?

The CC increase could also be from the pressure wash I did on the cover yesterday and the algae being disturbed enough and back into the main body of the pool?

The FC decrease could partly be because of the pressure wash and me adding water to the pool although unlikely as CC increased overnight as well.

Also, I watched the OCLT video again, yesterday we were happy with CC at 1 - the video says 0.5 or less...Is there a reason we are happy with 1?

I will add the chlorine now and test again aftet work tonight - will also need to scrub and vacuum after work again.

Thanks...

- - - Updated - - -

Wow, you both work fast!! Well done.

Just double-checking that you're fully informed on acid. Use only hydrochloric acid, available from Bunnings, 32%. It's a liquid.

Don't use dry acid because it includes sulphates. The small amount you've used so far is fine, but over time sulphates build up if you continue using dry acid. Sulphates are a poor mix with SWGs and are not needed in the pool. If levels build up high, cloudiness can develop and eventually precipitates causing other issues.

Great work, keep it up!

Thanks needsajet - I ended up using the Hydrochloric acid 32% that I had at home.

 

[kimkats]

I bet it is a combo of everything you have done. The refill took care of a lot of the stuff. Now you are dealing with stirring up the cover cove, valve drain, cover holes, stirring up the filter, etc.

The CC shows the FC is working. We would prefer .5 for the CC but there is a +/- for each of the tests so we don't sweat it unless it is a "solid" 1 that sticks around or goes higher like your did.

Keep up the SLAM levels for the FC. Keep working on the cover to see what you can do with it and the stuff in it.

You are in a "war" with many battles that need to fought. You will win each one as you work on the pool. Soon you will have a purrfect pool that only needs a little love once a day.

I know you were disappointed but you will et that pool sorted out and better than ever!

Kim

 

[Caco]

Probably not the post I want to be making at 5:30 in the morning.

FC 11 dropped from 13.5
CC 2 to 2.5 from 1

I really thought a water replacement would have nailed it

Bugger, I had my fingers crossed for you too
However it is not a huge overnight loss. And I kinda expected there may be some residual algae around, in the pipework, on the walls, maybe in the cover and in the residual water that has yet to be killed off.
All that means is that you have to continue the slam for a few more days, so keep that chlorine level up at 12ppm

Also, I watched the OCLT video again, yesterday we were happy with CC at 1 - the video says 0.5 or less...Is there a reason we are happy with 1?

I was unconcerned with the 1 CC because your water supply report showed chlorine and chloramines. They are probably using chloramines at the water treatment plant to sanitise your water. These would show up as CC on your test. However they would not show up as more than 1 CC at the levels mentioned on your water report

Also I know you put a huge effort into the cleaning the whole pool area and we know there would have been some algae around that you cant physically get to, so that could have accounted for the 1 CC as well

I occasionally get 0.5-1CC spikes in my pool. Could be anything from a few too many bugs, bird poop in water, leaves, grass clippings... It is only if it continues over a couple of days that I start to take action on it

I will add the chlorine now and test again after work tonight - will also need to scrub and vacuum after work again.

Yep, test and dose when you get home. Brush the pool. I would only vacuum if there is stuff to vacuum.


The good news is we know what has to be done. You still have a bit of algae. You have to slam
Its always hard to tell how long a slam will take, however with all the hard work you have undertaken, and if you keep on top of it I do believe you will have this nailed in short order

 

[buballodingo]

Ok so had an ok trip to bunnings this morning trip 5 . Found some irrigation pipe with a flexible 4mm tube and 90 degre 4mm right angle barb which if I can create enough pressure my be able to clean the grooves.

My plan for today after work is:

1. Have another go at cleaning the cover;
2. Run the heater for 10 to 20 minutes to cycle through some FC though there
3. Scrub and potentially vacuum the pool
4. Back wash and rinse
5. Re top up the pool to proper level with fresh water.

Am I better off testing the FC and CC before or after the above or both - Is there a point of doing OCLT tonight, I feel I am better off waiting til tomorrow night due to the results this morning. I will also be shaking out some more sediment from the pool cover and potentially the heater. Need to get more chlorine testing stuff I am half way through the kit already.

 

[Caco]

Ok so had an ok trip to bunnings this morning trip 5 .

:cop: 5 Trips? You have just reached 'boss' level DIY!!

1. Have another go at cleaning the cover;
2. Run the heater for 10 to 20 minutes to cycle through some FC though there
3. Scrub and potentially vacuum the pool
4. Back wash and rinse
5. Re top up the pool to proper level with fresh water.

1. Good luck on the cover, you show it whose the boss
2. Good plan, lets get it done now and over with
3. In the voice of Dory... 'just keep scrubbing, just keep scrubbing....'
4. Check your filter pressure. No point in backwashing until you are at 25% above clean. Sand filters work a bit better when they are a little dirty
5. Yep, bring it up to the mid point on your skimmer if required

Am I better off testing the FC and CC before or after the above or both - Is there a point of doing OCLT tonight, I feel I am better off waiting til tomorrow night due to the results this morning. I will also be shaking out some more sediment from the pool cover and potentially the heater. Need to get more chlorine testing stuff I am half way through the kit already.

I would test and bring it back up to shock level before you start. That way while you are doing all the other cleaning etc you got a good concentration of chlorine working on it straight away

I would also do another test after you finish the pool work. As a minimum you should be testing 3x a day when work interrupts pool time. In the morning before you go to work, straight after you get home and change into bleach safe clothes, right before bed time.

This should keep you at or near slam level for the whole day. You may want to go 2ppm over your slam level in the morning, so it remains higher for longer while you are at work. There is no point in going higher than that, it would just waste the bleach

Yep order some more FC testing stuff. Dont bother on testing for CC's right now, we know you are fighting algae, that will save you a few drops. Imagine you will get the test pretty quick too

OMG imagine if we hadnt dropped the CYA and how quickly you would have gone through the testing reagent ale:

As for the OCLT, do it again in a few days, when you feel you can face getting out of bed early again You will probably notice that you lose very little FC during the day and that would be the signal to do another OCLT. And really a couple of extra days at SLAM FC is not going to hurt anything. Its based on being high enough to kill most algae, while doing no harm to pool equipment and being at a swimmable level

 

[buballodingo]

Great. I am also leaving the cover on during the day. My reasoning is 2 fold..

1. I want to setup up the pool for how I will use it long term, I generally only uncover the pool to test, swim or if I have apart as it look better;
2. It will maintain the FC better. Sydney is hot at the moment and over the next few days specially, I don't want to lose FC due evaporation especially if I am still fighting algae.

In relation to raising the FC 2ppm in the morning I will see how the pool cover goes 1ppm may do the trick.

Oh, I have been thinking about salt level and my current thoughts of 3500. what do you usually keep salt at, is there any benefit in raising it slightly now?

 

[Caco]

Great. I am also leaving the cover on during the day. My reasoning is 2 fold..

1. I want to setup up the pool for how I will use it long term, I generally only uncover the pool to test, swim or if I have apart as it look better;
2. It will maintain the FC better. Sydney is hot at the moment and over the next few days specially, I don't want to lose FC due evaporation especially if I am still fighting algae.

In relation to raising the FC 2ppm in the morning I will see how the pool cover goes 1ppm may do the trick.

These are all good thoughts but with everything there are pros and cons
As far as I am aware there is no real difference to the slam process with leaving the cover on or off, especially in your case as it never leaves the pool. You are also correct in that it will help slow the loss of FC, not due to evaporation, but due to UV exposure breaking down the FC. However the UV does help breakdown the CC which could build up under a cover.

I think in your case, because you will open the pool daily to test for slamming and brushing, the pool will get plenty of airing if you leave it open for a couple of hours in the evening

Yes the loss while you are away at work will be a test and see kinda thing. You will get a feel for it after a couple of days.

Oh, I have been thinking about salt level and my current thoughts of 3500. what do you usually keep salt at, is there any benefit in raising it slightly now?

From what I recollect you added 75kg (3 bags) of salt to raise the pool to 3600ppm of salt. Another 25kg bag will bring up your salt level to 4800ppm

Personally I would raise to near manufacturers recommended levels and see how your SWG reacts. What is your reason behind wanting to be lower on the salt? If it is from reading the recommendations on this site, which are generally US based, their SWG's I believe have a lower manufacturers recommendation. FYI I dont have a SWG and I run 3500ppm salt, just for bather comfort.

 

[buballodingo]

That was the problem - heater manufacturer says not above 3500 and SWG optimal is 6000 with minimum 5000. The 3500 came from TFP - proves I was reading .

If I add my last 25kg bag my salt should go from 3500 to 4700.

I will add that tonight. Cheers

 

[buballodingo]

OHHH Caco - youve got me hooked...Cant stop thing about this pool

One of your comments above re salt and american SWG versus Aussie ones, is there any other levels that I should not necessarily rely on here?

Im setting looking forward to the days I have no algae and reviewing the forums for daily, bi weekly, weekly, fortnightly testing regimes and trying to set myself up to a maintenance schedule.

The other thing is I am entering these optimal settings into the pool math calc to try to get the CSI to work within parameters with minor tweak to my optimal settings for each pool parameter if you know what I mean?

Another thing with the pool math calculator. At the bottom of the calculator it has suggested FC levels for shocking. It says based on my "now" column that normal shock have FC at 12 but for mustard algae shock at 19. Should I be shocking at 19 as my algae is mustard algae?

 

[needsajet]

There's no difference in effective pool water chemistry between here and America. (except for chem additions and us enjoying the convenience of metric

The salt difference arises from SWC manufacturing and specifications. My SWC is ideal at 4,000 ppm salt, yours is higher. Mine continues fine down to 3,000 and there are Aussie SWCs that run ideal at 3,000. Many people here wait until the SWC is showing 'low salt', in other words "as long as the SWC is happy, you're good"

One other difference I noticed is that the relationship and importance of CYA and effective FC levels is more accepted here, although you'll find pool stores and pool techs that don't get it. You can look at the label on a jug of chlorine to see the acceptance here, which shows higher recommended FC for stabilized pools.

Good seeing all your progress and great to learn from you about the cleanup of the cover. I bet that once the algae is all dead, it will stay clean and become trouble-free!

 

[buballodingo]

Thanks needsajet. It is definitely keeping me busy so looking forward to not being as busy . Tanks also for the clarification above.

I played with the pool mat calculator quite a bit and found the minimum and maxim and my suggested optimal settings for when I am running normally that keeps the CSI between the required parameters. Obviously I will need to tweak with how my pool reacts etc when it is operational. This is what I am thinking at the moment, obviously the optimal column will be my initial target.

Test Type	Abbr.	Minimum	Optimal	Maximum
Free Chlorine	FC	2	4	5
Combined Chlorine	CC	0	0	1
Total Chlorine	TC	2	4	6
Acidity/Alklinity	pH	7.3	7.5	7.7
Total Alkalinity	TA	65	70	75
Calcium Hardness	CH	375	400	425
Cyanuric Acid/Stabilser	CYA	25	30	35
Salt	S	4500	4800	5500
Calcite Saturation Index	CSI	-0.60	0	0.60