Old Guard

In The Industry
Apr 14, 2022
54
Flowood Mississippi
Pool Size
420000
Surface
Plaster
Chlorine
Liquid Chlorine
I never got an answer from Taylor about that one fluky series of FAS-DPD FC tests I encountered back in March. It is now the only chlorine test I do unless I am demonstrating the straight-up DPD method to one of my lifeguards. I love having a confidence level in my results give or take 0.2 ppm.

I am less enthralled by that tiny little blue spoon and the way it interacts with the DPD powder. It cakes up on the spoon making any kind of precise measurement dubious. Then it hangs around and turns the spoon and the little plastic powder container it hangs on black. Cleaning the spoon, even with water or alcohol and a Q-tip, leaves most of the smut in place. It probably does not matter but it bugs me so I wasted a good part of this stormy Independence Day looking for Taylor spoon alternatives.

First question that came up is what does 50 mg of DPD powder equate to in terms of volume? One 32nd of a teaspoon? 1/64? My nasty little blue spoon holds between 50 and 60 mg of water so that would be between 1/83rd and 1/100th of a level teaspoon if my tiny scale is accurate and I got my math right.

Second question was—does powder precision mater? the instructions state "Add 2 dippers R-0870 DPD Powder. Swirl until dissolved. Sample will turn pink (Fig. 1) if free chlorine is present. NOTE: If pink color disappears, add R-0870 DPD Powder until color turns pink." Given the nature of the dipper and the powder "2 dippers" could vary a lot from one person to the next. I find that, if FC is even only 1 PPM, I get a pretty bright pink with just two dippers. If you can just continue to shovel the stuff in . . . how much can precision matter? If it doesn't matter much or at all, can I just use the tip of a popsicle stick to dump a little in? If it doesn't turn pink, just keep doing it until it does?

Possible solutions I have found to my nasty little spoon problem include: tiny stainless measuring spoons, tiny disposable plastic measuring spoons, a 12 pack of the little blue Taylor spoons, and popsicle sticks which are biodegradable and cheap as dirt. I could also see a shrink but that would be prohibitively expensive.
 
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Use the flat side of the spoon, which would be easier to clean. You can train yourself with how much is enough very easily. If you used too much powder, it won't mix. So you want one or two grains swirling around but not a bunch of mud. Find that level of powder, with any scooper of choice, and repeat it.
 
I have never had this problem with the spoon …

Are you rinsing the spoon after every use and letting it dry? Are you keeping the DPD powder bottle sealed?

The Taylor container for the R-0870 powder is actually a special kind of desiccant container. The thick inner wall is actually a desiccant that absorbs moisture to keep the powder dry and free flowing. If your powder is turning brown/purple/black, you are not storing it properly. If the blue scoop is getting powder caked onto it, then you are not rinsing it after use and letting it dry. Basic laboratory cleanliness … I guess no one here remembers chemistry class.

Also, the powder is a mixture of several different chemicals and the DPD indicator dye is less than 2% of the total mixture by weight. The powder is added in excess of anything that is needed to react with all the chlorine in your sample. Precisely weighing it out or getting exact scoops is unnecessary. Simply add two rounded scoops and it’s good all the way up to 50ppm FC.
 
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Use the flat side of the spoon, which would be easier to clean. You can train yourself with how much is enough very easily. If you used too much powder, it won't mix. So you want one or two grains swirling around but not a bunch of mud. Find that level of powder, with any scooper of choice, and repeat it.
That's interesting. Has me thinking popsicle sticks. Is the inverse also true? If it is pink, have you put enough in or do you have to get to the couple of undissolved grains swirling stage for the rest of the test to work? I use this test (and a lot of others) on all four pools almost every Sunday morning. The guards use and record DPD 2-3 X daily at all the pools. That and the Chemtrol results all tend to track pretty consistently. I may play with inside and outside powder doses this Sunday. More likely, JoyfulNoise will straighten us all out before then with the what and the why.
 
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I have never had this problem with the spoon …

Are you rinsing the spoon after every use and letting it dry? Are you keeping the DPD powder bottle sealed?

The Taylor container for the R-0870 powder is actually a special kind of desiccant container. The thick inner wall is actually a desiccant that absorbs moisture to keep the powder dry and free flowing. If your powder is turning brown/purple/black, you are not storing it properly. If the blue scoop is getting powder caked onto it, then you are not rinsing it after use and letting it dry. Basic laboratory cleanliness … I guess no one here remembers chemistry class.

Also, the powder is a mixture of several different chemicals and the DPD indicator dye is less than 2% of the total mixture by weight. The powder is added in excess of anything that is needed to react with all the chlorine in your sample. Precisely weighing it out or getting exact scoops is unnecessary. Simply add two rounded scoops and it’s good all the way up to 50ppm FC.
No. I have not been rinsing it because I didn't want to get it wet. At one location, I do one pool right after the other. I guess I could rinse AND dry it between uses. My little 10g DPD powder bottle has a "gasket" made of a pretty flimsy rubber band. My ¼ lb. stash has a better seal. The powder in the small bottle stays good though. Just the spoon I rarely rinse that gets nasty. I do rinse all of my "labware" except that spoon after every use and coddle my test satchel from an environmental perspective.
 
I tap it off then dry it/wipe it after each use & no more crusty spoon. I also added a desiccant packet to the area where I store the spoon & powder. This seems to help- along with making sure my hands are dry before touching it. I don’t care that it’s stained black. I get a new one every time I buy dpd powder so I have a bunch of them. It lives in the same compartment of my plano tf100 box all the time (which also has some staining) but nothing else in the box does.
 
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Maybe get a bunch of the spoons and that way you can have a fresh spoon when you want it.

You can wash and dry the dirty spoons as needed.

Maybe try acid to clean the spoons.

If you have 10 or 20 little spoons, drop them in a small cup of acid or some other type of cleaner that won't damage the spoons.

Swirl around and then rinse and dry.

Maybe get a tiny little Barbie sized dishwasher to wash the spoons.

I buy 1,000 custom made 24 Karat gold spoons at a time so that I can have a brand new gold spoon every time I check the chemistry, but that's me and not really a good choice for most people.

Note: I get my gold spoons from a spoon guy in Thailand. He can make the spoons out of 18K or 14K gold if you are on a tight budget. He can also make the spoons out of other metals like platinum or silver. If you are interested, PM me and I will give you his contact information.

Here is a 12 pack of regular plastic spoons for a reasonable price.

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If it is pink, have you put enough in or do you have to get to the couple of undissolved grains swirling stage for the rest of the test to work?
If it turns pink, it's enough. But I envision a fine line in my head between the two and what if its a hair below where itneeded to be ?

I mean. I run hot, so it really doesn't matter if I'm off by 1 at 11 ppm. But I still feel better seeing those 2 grains swirling around.
 

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The undissolved “chunks” that people sometimes see are one of the pH buffering components of the mixture. It dissolves slowly and does not need to fully dissolve for the test to work. You can ignore them.

Add the powder, let it stir for a few seconds, then titrate to a clear endpoint. That’s all it takes. If you’re measuring CCs, then add the R-0003 reagent as soon as a clear endpoint is achieved from the previous step and titrate again. Don’t stop in between to write numbers down. The complete test should not take more than a minute or so to complete.
 
The undissolved “chunks” that people sometimes see are one of the pH buffering components of the mixture. It dissolves slowly and does not need to fully dissolve for the test to work. You can ignore them.

Add the powder, let it stir for a few seconds, then titrate to a clear endpoint. That’s all it takes. If you’re measuring CCs, then add the R-0003 reagent as soon as a clear endpoint is achieved from the previous step and titrate again. Don’t stop in between to write numbers down. The complete test should not take more than a minute or so to complete.
Just to add to ^^ keep the test going as it'll start turning pink again on its own and you want to see if the CC changes the solution not the time.
 
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Also, I talked to my spoon guy and he is not taking on any new clients at this time.

I can see if I can locate an alternative source for you, but you would need to pay me a non-refundable retainer of $10,000.00 and a finder’s fee of $10,000.00 if I find you an alternative supplier.

It would also require an escrow deposit of $10,000.00 to be used to ensure payment for any product delivered.

Let me know if you want to go ahead with this.
 
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A couple of things:

1. There’s a Taylor training video on YouTube that states that as long as the spoon is full, precision isn’t necessary, meaning overfilling the spoon is ok.

2. As for cleaning, I “flick” the spoon against the spoon holder edge. Kinda hard to describe, but hold spoon against the edge, putting a little pressure on it so that it bends a little, and let it snap up. That snap will clean enough of the gunk off. Be careful not to flick it into your eyes, though.
 

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