Switching spa to dichlor/bleach method

[jvl1010]

We have a 2 month old spa with frog ease and it’s impossible to keep the water balanced. Add to that I’m low getting foam and a residue that looks like soap on the surface.

I’d like to switch to the Dichlor/Bleach method. If I clean out the tub with Ahh-some and do a fresh fill, how quickly can we use our spa once we start this method. Is there a waiting period while we dial in the CYA.

We also have an ozone generator. Does that change anything?

 

[Mdragger88]

As soon as u have adequate fc in the water & ph is in the 7’s jump in
Ozone can deplete fc so keep that in mind.
Be sure to Always follow the FC/CYA Levels maintaining fc above minimum for your cya at ALL times no matter if u are using ozone, uv, or the frog lest nasties will grow .

Ozone Systems - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

 

[VinnyinNJ]

I have a little different philosophy about initial tub use. Once you do the purge (I used to shock the purge water with high chlorine dose) and rinse out the tub no need to worry about it. If you take a hot bath you are in "chlorine free" water and IMO it's kind of the same for the first fill after the purge. You can add dichlor to get at least 3 PPM chlorine to feel safer. This is assuming you are not having a lot of people in the tub after the purge, If you are then this doesn't apply.

When I first got my tub, I was fortunate enough to be on a forum that had a microbiologist that had a tub. He had a specific way to dose the tub so that you are not tubbing in a lot chlorine sometimes close to 0 chlorine, it works very well. Some people were skeptical about it but he tested his tub under a microbiologist mind set and I felt it was trustworthy if you take internet people at their word. You need chlorine, you may want to have a higher level of chlorine in the tub once a week for stubborn bacteria but like pool water chlorine demand dictates how much of a bacteria load your water is carrying. Also remember in a stand alone hot tub you are usually dealing with bacteria only and they are more fragile then algae and chlorine destroys then in a shorter period of time.

 

[Mdragger88]

I have a little different philosophy about initial tub use. Once you do the purge (I used to shock the purge water with high chlorine dose) and rinse out the tub no need to worry about it. If you take a hot bath you are in "chlorine free" water and IMO it's kind of the same for the first fill after the purge. You can add dichlor to get at least 3 PPM chlorine to feel safer. This is assuming you are not having a lot of people in the tub after the purge, If you are then this doesn't apply.

When I first got my tub, I was fortunate enough to be on a forum that had a microbiologist that had a tub. He had a specific way to dose the tub so that you are not tubbing in a lot chlorine sometimes close to 0 chlorine, it works very well. Some people were skeptical about it but he tested his tub under a microbiologist mind set and I felt it was trustworthy if you take internet people at their word. You need chlorine, you may want to have a higher level of chlorine in the tub once a week for stubborn bacteria but like pool water chlorine demand dictates how much of a bacteria load your water is carrying. Also remember in a stand alone hot tub you are usually dealing with bacteria only and they are more fragile then algae and chlorine destroys then in a shorter period of time.

Hot tubbing with zero fc sounds like a quick way to get a skin infection. It is definitely not recommended if there are other people involved as having residual fc is necessary to prevent person to person transmission of pathogens . The amount of bacteria present can double every 4 minutes especially in a warm water environment (above freezing but below boiling) with no fc.

 

[VinnyinNJ]

I have heard and read bacteria doubles every 20 minutes but my information can be wrong. I along with my family have soaked in the tub with vet little chlorine without skin problems. Now when I had a party I would make sure there was chlorine in the tub before, during and after.

The idea is to have 3 PPM chlorine 20 minutes after you dosed. At that point any bacteria should be dead. I said close to 0 so there is a residual bit of chlorine in the tub. It also requires person to make sure they are taking care of the tub properly and not let the chlorine go to 0 for extended periods of time. If it does go to 0 you need a high dose (shock/slam) to make sure you get the bacteria.

The way I used my tub and how a different person uses their tub could be completely different. The Microbiologist did analyze his water to see if it worked and according to him it did. If I soaked in 0 5 to 1 PPM for 30 minutes, hit the tub with chlorine and 20 minutes later there was very little chlorine left there is a problem. But if I put in enough for 3 PPM and 20 minutes later there is still about 3 PPM there is very little load in the tub.

Now if the tub has been at 0 for days, do not use it until a higher dose of chlorine is used and you get good results from the test.

 

[VinnyinNJ]

Hot tubbing with zero fc sounds like a quick way to get a skin infection. It is definitely not recommended if there are other people involved as having residual fc is necessary to prevent person to person transmission of pathogens . The amount of bacteria present can double every 4 minutes especially in a warm water environment (above freezing but below boiling) with no fc.

I was on my phone before but this is in that Microbiologist's words. Not trying to covert anyone but putting it here in case someone wants to read it.

 

[Mdragger88]

Depending upon the size of the tub & the bather waste involved a 30 minute soak can use 2ppm/person.
There are different types(categories) of bacteria, some reproduce faster than others.

I personally don’t want any of them exponentially reproducing in the large people soup bowl on my patio if I can help it. Under sanitizing & under oxidizing on a regular basis only leads to more biofilms which can’t fully be removed with chlorine alone leading to a more frequent need to purge, drain, & refill. There is no harm in chlorinating properly but there is risk in doing the opposite. You will never have a sterile hot tub or eliminate all bacteria/pathogens but sufficient sanitation greatly lowers the risk of being affected by them. This forum is based on adequate chlorination practices so I cannot advise otherwise.

 

[VinnyinNJ]

Depending upon the size of the tub & the bather waste involved a 30 minute soak can use 2ppm/person.
There are different types(categories) of bacteria, some reproduce faster than others.
View attachment 452663
I personally don’t want any of them exponentially reproducing in the large people soup bowl on my patio if I can help it. Under sanitizing & under oxidizing on a regular basis only leads to more biofilms which can’t fully be removed with chlorine alone leading to a more frequent need to purge, drain, & refill. There is no harm in chlorinating properly but there is risk in doing the opposite. You will never have a sterile hot tub or eliminate all bacteria/pathogens but sufficient sanitation greatly lowers the risk of being affected by them. This forum is based on adequate chlorination practices so I cannot advise otherwise.

The file wasn't in the the correct format but I have it now. That soup bowl is a different situation, that requires a different chlorination procedure. The few times I had a party I did chlorinate before to have chlorine in the tub, during as we were eating and after with a shock dose. But the times only my family was in I put the chlorine in after we soaked but like I said before there was a residual amount. In the post that didn't have a file, I'm posting in case someone wants to read the procedure.

 

[Mdragger88]

When u add me, my husband, or any bather after the 1st soak since purging you get instant people soup was my point. No party necessary. Hot tubs are really just big bathtubs that reuse the same water over & over & over. Keeping that diverse ecosystem from turning into something uninviting or even dangerous requires some vigilance. Many people make the mistake of of undersanitizing because of their fear of chlorine. With cya involved the recommended fc levels on the FC/CYA Levels are less harsh than most municipal tap water which contains no cya & often 3 or 4ppm fc.
This paper makes no mention of cya nor it’s relationship with fc which can lead to unsanitary conditions quickly if you only keep 2-3 ppm fc & solely use dichlor for chlorination allowing cya to climb above 40ppm. This is the main flaw in his plan.
I prefer not to wait until my water has a “nasty smell” as mentioned in his plan but instead properly chlorinate to account for bather waste & standby demand all the time so there is no need for “shocking” on a schedule. I suspect he needs to do this because of the increasing cya due to dichlor use yet maintaining the same fc as when there was little to no cya.

 

[Ahhsomeguy]

Hello Mdragger88: You’re also using the Aqua Clarity aren’t you? With that product, you have fairly good protection even at low FC readings. How is it working for you?

 

[wireform]

Jv
Contrary to what this tread has brought up just know that the basis of the entire forum is to treat and sanitize the water in a safe precise manner. Pools aren't as risky as hot tubs as the amount of water to people ratio is much greater so the adverse effects are not immediate. Hot tubs being a small body of water heated to much higher temps is much more susceptible to bacteria. That being said sanitization needs to be at the forefront and skirting danger with low levels FC then quickly bringing it up to a level isn't the same as always knowing the water doesn't get below X sanitization. If you learn your tub with your use you can control it very easily but one thing is a definite, you must start with clean slate and that means a solid purge or two to be sure your good on that end. The Ahh-some product is the best we know out there to date and does as promised.

 

[Mdragger88]

Hello Mdragger88: You’re also using the Aqua Clarity aren’t you? With that product, you have fairly good protection even at low FC readings. How is it working for you?

Yes, I am using the Aqua Clarity weekly. I don’t depend on it to make up for inadequate fc so I always stay above minimum for my cya. It is simply a maintenance tool in my fight against biofilms that come with hard working husbands, kids, & users of skin/beauty products like myself that use the tub.
I have noted that the slightly persistent cc’s of .5 that usually arises near water change/purge time was non existent before this last water change. The water was around 8 months old. I usually do a purge& water change every 6 months but the tub wasn’t getting a ton of use & things we’re looking great with no cc’s & no increased fc demand
It seems to also help with the standby fc demand (which would likely be higher the more biofilms you have in your plumbing).
My swg cell is currently out of commission & have been manually chlorinating for standby as well as soaks, so when going on vacay last week I raised fc to slam level for my cya before I left & 5 days later Fc was still nicely above minimum. My last purge also produced basically no detritus which tells me an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. I use a dab less than 1oz every Saturday in my 200ish gallon tub.

 

[Ahhsomeguy]

Great to hear. Wow, that AC is going to last you 2 full years in a 200:gallon tub. It is an amazing product.

 

[VinnyinNJ]

Jv
Contrary to what this tread has brought up just know that the basis of the entire forum is to treat and sanitize the water in a safe precise manner. Pools aren't as risky as hot tubs as the amount of water to people ratio is much greater so the adverse effects are not immediate. Hot tubs being a small body of water heated to much higher temps is much more susceptible to bacteria. That being said sanitization needs to be at the forefront and skirting danger with low levels FC then quickly bringing it up to a level isn't the same as always knowing the water doesn't get below X sanitization. If you learn your tub with your use you can control it very easily but one thing is a definite, you must start with clean slate and that means a solid purge or two to be sure your good on that end. The Ahh-some product is the best we know out there to date and does as promised.

The PDF that I posted was by a microbiologist. I am not one and I don't know if anyone who has responded is as well. I agree that sanitation is very important and as he said in the PDF as well. He specifically stated to have a microbiologically safe tub right on top. It's not in this PDF but at one point on the forum he ran tests on his water. At the time and I still do I feel he gave good information. Now that using dichlor until 30 PPM CYA and stopping I think this becomes even more effective then when this was written.

There was a time that dichlor only was used in a tub along with MPS when N2 came along. There was also a time Ahhsome wasn't around; I started using the purge when I found out about it and it is a great product. The idea about the CYA/FC chart wasn't discussed and forget about using bleach. He mentions using 7x the normal dichlor amount to super chlorinate, that idea was to not only burn chloramines but to kill anything that the "normal" chlorine levels may not have gotten. When this was written was before Chem Geek was on the scene and I don't think he was on the particular forum where this was posted. When Chem Geek tried explaining about CYA, bleach and the like on a different forum he wasn't taken seriously but I was already familiar with the BBB method so he answered my questions and I adopted the dichlor/bleach use model. I followed this dosing method without any issues but I may have been a little more diligent in adding chlorine daily/every other day.

Although I posted here and suggested it if anyone or no one is comfortable with it that's fine. Soaking in a tub with chlorine is the norm.