SWG run time calculations assistance

DAB942

Gold Supporter
Nov 13, 2017
524
Space Coast, FL
Agreed. I've decided to hit the reset button on mine. I'm going to kind of start over, chemically and then fire the SWG back up. I might have thrown mine out of whack a couple weeks when I think I had a air leak in my filter housing that went unnoticed for some time.
 

sbcpool

Well-known member
Mar 10, 2015
588
Upland, CA
I'm sure if I raise the CYA high enough even a low-output SWG could keep it up with enough runtime. I don't want people to think I'm saying that the RJ60+ can't work no matter what. I'm saying that any sized unit could do that given enough run time. If I had to run it 12 hours a day I'd burn through cells in 2 - 3 years. I specifically bought what was supposed to be an oversized unit so I could achieve the same results with shorter run time. The unit is not performing that way. In the end it means I paid a $350 premium for nothing, and that all calculation involving the cost-benefits are hugely inaccurate because the unit has to be run three times as long as specs would suggest.
 

HeyEng

Gold Supporter
Silver Supporter
Nov 7, 2018
697
Oklahoma City, OK
Pool Size
14000
Surface
Plaster
Chlorine
Salt Water Generator
SWG Type
CircuPool RJ-60 Plus
Did a little experiment w/ my RJ-60 last night.

Pool volume: 14,000
Salinity: 3600 (Taylor Test) 4000 (RJ Readout "average")
Pool Temp: 84
CYA: 70

I ran the SWCG at 100% for 12 hours (8p-8a) and had a FC increase of 4.5 PPM (8.5 FC to 13.0 FC).

Using the SWCG calculator located here, it estimates that it should produce 26.1 FC @ 100% over 24 hours...and well, my 4.5 over 12 hours is NO WHERE near that, it's closer to 34% of the "predicted" production number.

I do understand that there are some variables I can't account for, but I can't fathom what variable would make up for 8.55 *additional* PPM of FC I should be seeing. I didn't do an OCLT prior to the test, but my FC has been running pretty high and when I did an OCLT a week ago, I passed with flying colors.

All I can say is that I am happy my pool is as small as it is. I can run the SWCG for a fairly short period and keep up with the FC demand but I could see how there could be issues for someone that had a 30,000+ gallon pool!

Edit: My current FC demand is about 3.5 PPM a day right now. Temperature is mid to high 90s, no clouds, lots and LOTS of sun. From 8a-8p, the pool burned 3.0 PPM and the later OCLT (8p-8a) was 0.5 PPM.
 
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sean.a.hyde

Gold Supporter
Jun 5, 2018
138
Pittsburgh, PA
Did a little experiment w/ my RJ-60 last night.

Pool volume: 14,000
Salinity: 3400 (Taylor Test) 4000 (RJ Readout "average")
Pool Temp: 84
CYA: 70

I ran the SWCG at 100% for 12 hours (8p-8a) and had a FC increase of 4.5 PPM (8.5 FC to 13.0 FC).

Using the SWCG calculator located here, it estimates that it should produce 26.1 FC @ 100% over 24 hours...and well, my 4.5 over 12 hours is NO WHERE near that, it's closer to 34% of the "predicted" production number.

I do understand that there are some variables I can't account for, but I can't fathom what variable would make up for 8.55 *additional* PPM of FC I should be seeing. I didn't do an OCLT prior to the test, but my FC has been running pretty high and when I did an OCLT a week ago, I passed with flying colors.

All I can say is that I am happy my pool is as small as it is. I can run the SWCG for a fairly short period and keep up with the FC demand but I could see how there could be issues for someone that had a 30,000+ gallon pool!

I will edit this tomorrow when I determine what my chlorine demand is right now.
As an RJ-60+ owner, I would like to contribute to this, but I am scared about raising my FC by so much..., but maybe I shouldn't be?
Mine currently runs for 8 hours/day at 25%, but my demand is super low since my pool is almost always covered.
 

HeyEng

Gold Supporter
Silver Supporter
Nov 7, 2018
697
Oklahoma City, OK
Pool Size
14000
Surface
Plaster
Chlorine
Salt Water Generator
SWG Type
CircuPool RJ-60 Plus
As an RJ-60+ owner, I would like to contribute to this, but I am scared about raising my FC by so much..., but maybe I shouldn't be?
There is no harm in raising it...you could even push it up to SLAM level and still safely swim.
 

Brett S

Well-known member
Mar 15, 2019
722
Orlando
As an RJ-60+ owner, I would like to contribute to this, but I am scared about raising my FC by so much..., but maybe I shouldn't be?
Mine currently runs for 8 hours/day at 25%, but my demand is super low since my pool is almost always covered.

Based on the experience of everyone else in this thread it seems likely that your FC level won’t go up nearly that much. But if you’re nervous about it you could always do a shorter run time... instead of running 8 hours overnight maybe try 3 or 4 hours in the evening. Doing it after the sun sets is best so you don’t have to deal with chlorine loss from UV.
 

Hootz

Bronze Supporter
Feb 5, 2018
258
Rogers, AR
I can't find a good example in the time I have but there have been some recent threads from new circupool owners that are disappointed in the output. One of the first things Circupool asked was a water analysis including phosphate levels. Some owners were successful in raising the circupool output by treating for phosphates.
 

sbcpool

Well-known member
Mar 10, 2015
588
Upland, CA
I just finished getting all the "haze" out of the pool after using a phosphate remover when my test showed 300. Vacuumed this morning. We'll see what happens, but when I drained the spa and filled with brand new tap water I still saw FC production at about 33% of expected.
 

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sbcpool

Well-known member
Mar 10, 2015
588
Upland, CA
As an RJ-60+ owner, I would like to contribute to this, but I am scared about raising my FC by so much..., but maybe I shouldn't be?
Mine currently runs for 8 hours/day at 25%, but my demand is super low since my pool is almost always covered.
If your unit is performing as others' your runtime would generate about 0.5 ppm FC, which may be just fine for a covered pool.
 

DAB942

Gold Supporter
Nov 13, 2017
524
Space Coast, FL
We have all sorts of action here in FL. Blazing sun, then six inches of rain. I might not get this dialed in until December.
 
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DAB942

Gold Supporter
Nov 13, 2017
524
Space Coast, FL
I added LC yesterday. I think it dipped too low a few weeks ago and that is the issue. I also had been adjusting the swg daily as FC moved. I think I need more data. So, I will get the FC up and start over and not adjust for a week. With the sun levels here changing from day to day, I may have been trying to move the needle when I shouldn't have.
 

Hootz

Bronze Supporter
Feb 5, 2018
258
Rogers, AR
It seems to me cya level is paramount. It took me 2 seasons to learn how to interpret the test. My level was much lower than I had determined using the tf100 test, due to improper reading of the results. I slowly crept up to 80 cya this year and it has made a difference in my daily chlorine loss, thus making it easier for the swg to keep it up. My pool and spa volume is about 25,000 gallons and I am maintaining a steady fc level running the rj60+ at 35 percent for 12 hours.
 

Brett S

Well-known member
Mar 15, 2019
722
Orlando
It seems to me cya level is paramount. It took me 2 seasons to learn how to interpret the test. My level was much lower than I had determined using the tf100 test, due to improper reading of the results. I slowly crept up to 80 cya this year and it has made a difference in my daily chlorine loss, thus making it easier for the swg to keep it up. My pool and spa volume is about 25,000 gallons and I am maintaining a steady fc level running the rj60+ at 35 percent for 12 hours.

So assuming that your RJ-60+ is running at it’s rated capacity, 35% for 12 hours in 25000 gallons should products 2.6ppm of chlorine. That certainly sounds reasonable for daily chlorine consumption. And if you were actually generating 1/3 of the rated capacity like some of these other folks are seeing that would only be .86ppm and I think it would be highly unlikely that your pool is consuming less than 1ppm of chlorine a day.
 

sbcpool

Well-known member
Mar 10, 2015
588
Upland, CA
It seems to me cya level is paramount. It took me 2 seasons to learn how to interpret the test. My level was much lower than I had determined using the tf100 test, due to improper reading of the results. I slowly crept up to 80 cya this year and it has made a difference in my daily chlorine loss, thus making it easier for the swg to keep it up. My pool and spa volume is about 25,000 gallons and I am maintaining a steady fc level running the rj60+ at 35 percent for 12 hours.
CYA doesn't affect production, only keeping what is produced. We're not trying to solve keeping the little FC we're generating, we're trying to solve how long it takes to generate it.
 

DAB942

Gold Supporter
Nov 13, 2017
524
Space Coast, FL
It seems to me cya level is paramount. It took me 2 seasons to learn how to interpret the test. My level was much lower than I had determined using the tf100 test, due to improper reading of the results. I slowly crept up to 80 cya this year and it has made a difference in my daily chlorine loss, thus making it easier for the swg to keep it up. My pool and spa volume is about 25,000 gallons and I am maintaining a steady fc level running the rj60+ at 35 percent for 12 hours.
I think that is a big issue -- being able to accurately interpret that test. I tested it and thought it was at 60, so I added. Then tested a week or so later -- no change. Since the test is visual, I assumed it was in the water. Tested last week and it was looked like 30. So, I added two gallons of liquid stabilizer. Tested and it looks like 60. arghhhhh
 

laprjns

LifeTime Supporter
Aug 14, 2012
454
Ellington, CT
Pool Size
30000
Surface
Vinyl
Chlorine
Salt Water Generator
SWG Type
Pureline Crystal Pure 60,000
@sbcpool issue has nothing to do with FC lost or CYA level. The issue is that sbcpool's RJ-60Plus is not producing chlorine at the rate that is advertised. His testing clearly shows that the SWG is not meeting its specified production. In fact the production rate that was demonstrated by sbcpool's tests show that the RJ-60 is only producing chlorine at a 1 lbs per day rate, which is 1/3 of the advertised rate. Its actually producing at a similar rates as an RJ-20, What he needs is for those of you that own a RJ-60 to run a similar test to what he ran and report back on what your SWG are really producing.
My pool and spa volume is about 25,000 gallons and I am maintaining a steady fc level running the rj60+ at 35 percent for 12 hours.
I agree with Brett that this results implies that your RJ-60 is producing at or near the specified 3.1 lbs per day.
Based on @HeyEng, @Dave_NJ and sbcpool test results, I'm starting to think that there maybe a production quality issue with these cells. @HeyEng , @Dave_NJ and sbcpool tests of their cells show that they are not producing anywhere near the specified production rate, while Hootz data point implies that his is. From reviewing past posts of all four, it appears that Hoots purchased and installed his RJ-60 last year around June, and HeyEng, Dave_NJ and sbcpool all purchase and installed this year. Is there a problem with cells that were shipped this year??
 
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DAB942

Gold Supporter
Nov 13, 2017
524
Space Coast, FL
I can't tell yet. Mine is about a month old. In my case, I may have other issues -- so I can't say with any degree of certainty that the SWG isn't work as advertised.
 

mas985

TFP Expert
LifeTime Supporter
May 3, 2007
14,046
Pleasanton, CA
Pool Size
20000
Surface
Plaster
Chlorine
Salt Water Generator
Why not just do a spa test? Chemistry issues can be easily overcome with a higher starting CL level. Tests can be done in a very short period of time so UV extinction is not a big issue.
 

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