SWG had power, then none

[doncaruana]

Fired up the system for the first time today and initially the IC40 had power but then at some point pretty early (it was on for a few minutes) the power went out on it. Now, I haven't opened the load center yet because this all happened just before it got dark.

This is the original unit installed after season in 2011 (so it's had 10 summers on it) but I've not had any issues. The one thing with this is that it is wired so it's always on, vs being wired with the pump. But, again, that hasn't made a difference thus far (I just learned about the risks of this last year, but haven't messed with it to rewire it).

I know there is a fuse somewhere - is it in the transformer for the SWG that sits in the load center? I also see in the ET manual for no power to IC "Fuse in EasyTouch Load Center is open." with a resolution of "Reset the AC fuse, located in the EasyTouch control panel." Is that the same fuse or a different one? And what does "reset" it mean? Replace it?

Obviously I need to check the wires but I honestly have no real reason to think that's it since it was initially on. Is the best course of action to "fix" that fuse and go from there?

One other thing - I just replaced the liner so there is literally no salt in the water. I'm assuming that doesn't matter but was wondering if maybe it freaked it out because it was so low and made it draw too much power or something. I know, weird, but just trying to figure out what can be figured out.

I know pictures would help and I'll post tomorrow. But I wanted to try and get all the prose explanation down first in the hopes that some of this at least made some passing sense.

So any help as always is greatly appreciated!

 

[Jimrahbe]

Don,

Did you EasyTouch come with the Salt System, or do you have an external power center for the salt cell???

Basically... where does the cable from the SWCG plug in? The bottom of the EasyTouch or to some small external box?

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[doncaruana]

They were installed at the same time. There's one thick cable from the SWCG that plugs into the bottom left of the easy touch.

 

[Jimrahbe]

Don,

In theory, the cell should only have lights (power) when the pump/filter relay is closed. This will only happen when the system is in the Pool mode or Spa mode and the pump is running. The cell should not have lights when in the Service mode.

If your cell has no light at all, make sure your system is set up as outlined above. If set up correctly then the cell should have some lights. If not, you can test voltage going to the cell from the surge card mounted to the back of the EasyTouch behind the dropdown panel at the top of the main box.

It looks like this..

SWG Power Supply PCB.jpg

• Jimrahbe
• Sep 21, 2016

Look at the white connector and see if one of the connections is very brown.

Let us know what you find,

Jim R.

 

[doncaruana]

I know it's not wired like this - the cell normally has power regardless of whether the pump is on. Like I said before, I know that part isn't right but that's the way it was installed and I just last year learned it's supposed to be the way you said.

So right now it should have power and did but doesn't now for whatever reason. Which is why I was asking about the fuse mentioned in the manual.

More info and pics in a few hours.

 

[Dirk]

I've never popped one of these breakers, and don't actually have one for my IntelliChlor (long story), but I imagine if it's popped it'll be sticking out in some way, so pushing it is probably how it gets reset. If that's not the problem, Jim will help you troubleshoot the other possibilities. (For what it's worth, 10 years for an IntelliChlor is amazing!)

If you're going to go into the EasyTouch to inspect, be sure to turn off all breakers. You'll need to turn on breakers to test voltages, of course, but otherwise play it safe.

 

[doncaruana]

Well, the breaker in the upper right is tripped and as soon as I try to reset it, it trips again. I honestly don't know what that means.

 

[Jimrahbe]

Don,

The upper right or the IntelliChlor breaker right under it??

Unplug the cell and see of the breaker still pops.

After 10 years, most likely your cell is bad.

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[doncaruana]

How do I unplug the cell? You mean from the bottom left where the wire comes in?

Also, where would any fuse be that could come into play here?

 

[Jimrahbe]

Don,

There is no "fuse" when the system is inside the EasyTouch like yours, just the IntelliChlor circuit breaker.

Yes, just unscrew the cell's cable connector from the bottom left of the EasyTouch.

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[doncaruana]

Yeah, unplugged breaker stays on. Reconnected and checked the connection with power off and tried a fresh power up. Seems like I smelled some magic smoke that time but didn't see anything egregious.

Nexr step is buy a new cell and install it right? And bigger question... Will I be able to just replace it given my stuff is so old?

And yet another question - would I be better off bumping this up to an IC60? The IC40 was "over powered" for my pool, which might be why it lasted so long? It never needed to run over 40%.

 

[Jimrahbe]

Don,

The system is set to power an IC20, 40 and 60, so that is not an issue.

I'd go with another IC40, but go with an IC60 if you want..

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[doncaruana]

Don,

The system is set to power an IC20, 40 and 60, so that is not an issue.

I'd go with another IC40, but go with an IC60 if you want..

Thanks,

Jim R.

Thanks Jim. A good local shop has an ic40 in stock at a decent price - everything is back ordered everywhere else. Think I'll just roll with it.

Side note: I noticed in my picture it says right there how you're supposed to wire it! My installers were clowns! I'll take this opportunity to fix it, although they cut the wire too short to reach the pump relay so I'll splice some 14ga in.

2nd note: thank goodness for bottled chlorine! I can limp along until I get this rolling!

 

[Dirk]

My installers were clowns!

I've found several similar things with my installation over the years, as I've been learning more about this stuff (from TFP)! We assume when we hire professionals that they know what they're doing. Trust, but verify! We have to be our own experts these days! Or at least know about troublefreepool.com!

 

[Dirk]

I'll take this opportunity to fix it

Just want to double check (pardon if you already know this). I mentioned how you should turn off the breakers if you're going to peek behind the EasyTouch control panel. But the section you'll be working in to rewire the IC is the high-voltage area, and that area will still have 240V live even if you turn off all the EasyTouch breakers. You need to turn off the breaker in your home's main circuit breaker panel that feeds the EasyTouch, too, before you go poking around inside there. Those two big copper-looking bars will have 240V across them even when all the EasyTouch breakers are off.

 

[doncaruana]

Thanks Dirk. Regarding the electrical, I appreciate the warning but I'm pretty well versed then and have done actual electrical work.

On the installers - this site has been a godsend. The only bad part is the more I learn here the more I realize how little my installers knew and how bad they were! If I knew then what I know now...

 

[Dirk]

Sorry, one more thing. I really don't like giving out electrical advice. One, because I'm not an electrician, and two because I'm not onsite, observing everything there is to observe when it comes to electrical panels. That said, you mentioned "14ga." Maybe because that's what everything is wired with. It looks like 14 in the pic (though you can't always tell). Any who, I'm only seeing 20A breakers. That's probably a code violation, and certainly not the best, safest. You use 14G on a 15A breaker, and 12G for anything wired to a 20A breaker. It's possible your whole box is wired incorrectly.

I always recommend folks use a professional, licensed electrician, ideally one that specializes in pool wiring, when it comes to messing with pool electrical.

Edit: we were typing at the same time. I appreciate you saying you know electrical. So do I. But there was a ton I didn't know about pool electrical. Anyway, you missed that bit about the 14G wire. Just be careful, is all I'm sayin'...

 

[doncaruana]

I just took my first swim anyway, so I haven't taken a deep dive in there. I appreciate it - I'll do my due diligence.

Although I do see that the intellichlor is only a 12a breaker and that's the only line I would put the 14ga on.

 

[Dirk]

I just took my first swim anyway, so I haven't taken a deep dive in there. I appreciate it - I'll do my due diligence.

Although I do see that the intellichlor is only a 12a breaker and that's the only line I would put the 14ga on.

Jim might want to correct me, but I think that IC breaker is between the transformer and the surge board. It protects the transformer from the IC, but it doesn't protect the wiring between the transformer and the 120/240V power source. It's the transformer that gets wired to the pool relay, not the IC or its surge board. The transformer, via the pool relay, gets wired to a breaker, and if that breaker is 20A, you use 12G for that.

OK, I gotta bow out, because I swore a while back I wouldn't get involved with trying to advise folks on an Internet forum about pool electrical, other than to encourage them to get a professional to do it. Take care.

 

[doncaruana]

OK...some things here...Most of the wire in the box is 14awg, including the wire that's directly on the SWCG transformer, so I think that will be ok. Unfortunately, the clowns that did the install tied the yellow and black from the SWCG transformer right to the main panel breaker along with the line to the main system transformer. That's 12awg coming off the breaker into that group. The wires marked with the red x are the ones tied together in that big red wirenut in the lower right. For reference, the 3 breakers in this pic are, from top to bottom - 240 for pump and heater, light, main panel.




Now, what I think I need to do is take that the yellow and black from the swcg and run it up to one of the load sides of the filter pump relay. That's all based on this figure from the load center install guide. I should just be able to run a 14awg jumper down from load1 or load2 on the filter pump relay and tie it in with the yellow and black once I get them separated off the breaker itself.

Does that make sense? Am I missing something?