SWG cheaper than liquid chlorine?

[ti_chris]

Hi,

I'm considering a SWG to save myself from going to Home Depot every week and buying liquid chlorine to make sure it's fresh. T he main motivation however is to save on costs. Details about my pool chemistry:

CYA: ~30
pH: 7.5
CH: 370
Cl: 5

Currently in my area, the cheapest chlorine I can purchase comes from Home Depot and they sell it for roughly 9$/2 gallons with a concentration of 10%. This summer, I've added roughly 2ppm daily to my pool to keep it at the appropriate level (that translates to roughly 1/2gallon per day). Thus on average, I tend to spend roughly 20$/week on liquid chlorine. That's a little over 1k/year assuming that I keep the same levels throughout the year. I'm in California where the winters are pretty mild. The pool may take half of the chlorine for 4months due to this, but that probably roughly compensates for the shock treatments I have to do as well as the slightly higher intake on really hot days during the summer.

An SWG would cost 1-2k upfront and the cell replacement would cost 500-700 every 5 year. There's also an upfront cost for salt and a maintenance level for salt, but its all seems somewhat small in comparison to the liquid chlorine costs I'm currently incurring.

I read in many places that an SWG is expected to cost more than liquid chlorine to maintain, but according to my math, it seems like an SWG pays for itself in 2-3 year. It also seems like many places can buy much cheaper chlorine than I can, which may be the reason why an SWG makes more sense to me.

I currently need to add acid to my pool at a rough rate of 1gallon per week and I expect the SWG will have similar requirements.

am I missing something or does this math sound about right and an SWG would make more financial sense in my situation?

 

[CaptainCannonball]

For me it was kind of a wash, what pushed me over the edge was liquid chlorine prices and scarcity recently. Turns out that a few seasons of liquid chlorine use meant that I didn’t have to buy any salt. I went with a circupool diy and would highly recommend it. They have a 7 year limited warranty on their stuff, $500 every 5 years or so for a new cell seems like a good deal to me. Good luck, I doubt you will regret it.

 

[ti_chris]

For me it was kind of a wash, what pushed me over the edge was liquid chlorine prices and scarcity recently. Turns out that a few seasons of liquid chlorine use meant that I didn’t have to buy any salt. I went with a circupool diy and would highly recommend it. They have a 7 year limited warranty on their stuff, $500 every 5 years or so for a new cell seems like a good deal to me. Good luck, I doubt you will regret it.

Thanks. I was looking at the circupool RJ60. Their warranty seems amazing and the DIY aspect of it is also quite appealing. I agree with you. Recently, it's been a little difficult to find liquid chlorine at times and it's been a little frustrating especially since it requires a trip to the store. If nothing else, saving the trip to the store would be nice.

 

[panic_button]

I choose salt for both my pools, I can go on vacation for a week and not worry about adding chlorine everyday.

 

[Rancho Cost-a-Lotta]

am I missing something or does this math sound about right and an SWG would make more financial sense in my situation?

Sounds like you've got it figured out. I recently replaced my older system with an RJ-45 plus. So far, so good. You're pool volume puts you between a 40K and 60K unit. For the extra money, a 60K unit would be a good choice.

 

[Rattus Suffocatus]

So when I calculated the cost of my Universal 40 out, the estimated life of the cell versus buying chlorine was almost exactly a wash. Now, if I also had figured in gasoline and my time, then I was slightly positive on the purchase of the SWCG. Now, all of those numbers have changed with the increase of the cost of the cells actually outpacing gasoline and bleach.

However, I also had a string of family disasters this year. And the pool only really needed a good sweeping to recover it once I was able. So the fact that all I had to do when I was too busy is descale the cell once and add acid 2x a week and it otherwise maintained the pool for me makes it worth a slightly higher cost. So that is my story and I am sticking to it.

We all like the "feel" of the water better with the small amount of salt in it, so that's another bonus IMHO (though you can do that without a SWCG).

I say if you are thinking about it, go for it. I don't know of many who regret the decision. I would bet money over the life of the cell now though it will end up being slightly more expensive.... they use about 100W of electricity when on as well (at full power for those designs or some of the newer ones used switched supplies that spread that over the entire time the cell is on... in actual use it doesn't matter.) So there is some electricity cost as well.

I still think my purchase was well worth it. But it's probably false advertising to think is saves money off of stabilized or liquid chlorine. Now for worrying about chlorine supply issues? That's worth it too....

 

[ti_chris]

I choose salt for both my pools, I can go on vacation for a week and not worry about adding chlorine everyday.

Yah that makes sense. I have a Stenner pump for liquid chlorine, which saves me that trouble. It's good enough for a few weeks if I fill up my 7 gallon tank completely. I tend to fill it up weekly however. I'm guessing that salt may be a little less frequent than that.

 

[ti_chris]

So when I calculated the cost of my Universal 40 out, the estimated life of the cell versus buying chlorine was almost exactly a wash. Now, if I also had figured in gasoline and my time, then I was slightly positive on the purchase of the SWCG. Now, all of those numbers have changed with the increase of the cost of the cells actually outpacing gasoline and bleach.

Although in fairness, I wouldn't be surprised if liquid chlorine's prices were going to go up given the high demand and scarcity of it at this point .

However, I also had a string of family disasters this year. And the pool only really needed a good sweeping to recover it once I was able. So the fact that all I had to do when I was too busy is descale the cell once and add acid 2x a week and it otherwise maintained the pool for me makes it worth a slightly higher cost. So that is my story and I am sticking to it.

That's nice. My Stenner pump setup currently buys me that mostly (except for the refilling & driving of the liquids, which is a bit anoying)

We all like the "feel" of the water better with the small amount of salt in it, so that's another bonus IMHO (though you can do that without a SWCG).

I say if you are thinking about it, go for it. I don't know of many who regret the decision. I would bet money over the life of the cell now though it will end up being slightly more expensive.... they use about 100W of electricity when on as well (at full power for those designs or some of the newer ones used switched supplies that spread that over the entire time the cell is on... in actual use it doesn't matter.) So there is some electricity cost as well.

I still think my purchase was well worth it. But it's probably false advertising to think is saves money off of stabilized or liquid chlorine. Now for worrying about chlorine supply issues? That's worth it too....

The tricky part for me is that many places I've read suggest I should replace my main line drain's copper pipe before transitioning to salt, which would be a major upfront cost too :/.

 

[ti_chris]

Sounds like you've got it figured out. I recently replaced my older system with an RJ-45 plus. So far, so good. You're pool volume puts you between a 40K and 60K unit. For the extra money, a 60K unit would be a good choice.

Yah I like the idea of the RRJ60 since I can run it at a lower power and/or for a shorter amount of time. I currently run the pump for roughly 4hrs/day and that puts me roughly I the RJ60 range if I want to do that and add the proper amount of chlorine.

 

[Rancho Cost-a-Lotta]

If you decide to purchase the RJ-60, get it from Discount Salt Pool (AKA Circupool). Select the RJ-45 Plus and upgrade to the RJ-60 for $10. Circupool's main site does not show this offer.

 

[mknauss]

I should replace my main line drain's copper pipe before transitioning to salt,

Pool heat exchangers are made from copper. Mine is 8 years old. What would salt have to do with the copper line?

Also, a main drain is not needed. So plug it off if you are concerned.

 

[rldaniel]

I put in a RJ60 last year and haven't regretted it a bit. Maybe I am different, but I highly value my time spent going the Lowe's or Walmart trying to find liquid chlorine, hauling it out to the pool and putting it in every day. As others have said, I check the CL level two or three times a week and rarely have to add anything including MA. It's not true that a SWG will increase your PH significantly. To me, it's really no contest. Just do it.

 

[Newdude]

From a purely mathematical perspective, the break even point is between 12k and 15k gallons. Lower than that it should be cheaper to use liquid and the larger you go over that point, the cheaper the SWG becomes. I had 35k gallons and I was up by a mile with the SWG.

Certainly finding a 2 for 1 sale on jugs would change the equation, but so would a great clearance deal on a SWG system in the off season.

The personal factor which cannot be ignored is what ‘cost’ everyone values their time and efforts. I, for example, would pay double or triple for the SWG for what it saves me in time. Others don’t even think that breaking even is worth it. Nobody is wrong.

 

[jark87]

to save myself from going to Home Depot every week

That convenience sums it up for me. Plus the convenience of being able to skip the daily chore of chlorine additions, being able to leave for weeks without hiring a pool service, etc. As Newdude said above, to each his own, but I’d gladly pay for the convenience, even if liquid chlorine was a cheaper alternative.

 

[Rattus Suffocatus]

My pool

From a purely mathematical perspective, the break even point is between 12k and 15k gallons. Lower than that it should be cheaper to use liquid and the larger you go over that point, the cheaper the SWG becomes. I had 35k gallons and I was up by a mile with the SWG.

Certainly finding a 2 for 1 sale on jugs would change the equation, but so would a great clearance deal on a SWG system in the off season.

The personal factor which cannot be ignored is what ‘cost’ everyone values their time and efforts. I, for example, would pay double or triple for the SWG for what it saves me in time. Others don’t even think that breaking even is worth it. Nobody is wrong.

My pool is 14Kgal m/l -- and I wasn't kidding when I said it was literally a wash when I calculated it out a year and a half ago-- at the time. Somewhere if you do a search here, you can see where I posted those numbers... so I would venture to guess that you might be correct with the amounts, though if I recall right the bigger units weren't necessarily cheaper in lbs of chlorine a day versus $$$. Those calculations over time are why I went against the common grain here and bought the Universal model instead of the RJ, though if you had a bigger pool than mine that might not be a valid choice. At 2 lbs/day it's about 3.5x oversized for my pool. I can keep my CYA a little lower, etc. because of that and do.

I really need to get back to the idea of a peristaltic pump (like a Stenner) to dose acid. That probably would get rid of the flake insoluble calcium issue that I am having. I also need to figure out some way to aerate my pool better as I have a very hard time driving out CO2 to balance acid additions for TA. Had I known I would have directed the PB to put in a fountain or something. I like to say there is more rock in the water here in Arizona than water (and in the soil than soil, and in many of the people's heads here than brains.. you get it...).. our TA gets out of control during the summer months in our water supply.

I am still to afraid to do borates, but that might change as I am considering a fence around the pool since I have a Golden Retriever young adult puppy who likes to swim when told not to, drink the water and chew on the solar cover. If I do that.. then maybe that could help solve the white flake issue...

But yeah.. I pretty much completely slummed it this summer-- but it it took me about 2.5 hours to clean the pool up so I can see the screw heads in the main drain again. The water was still perfectly clean. I had a lot of dirt to clean up though by sweeping and vacuuming. I am sold on SWCGs. My only issue is the calcium flakes.. I knew that would be a problem and that is also why I bought an oversized unit with less life but less expensive replacement cells. There are apparently people in Tucson who can keep their TA down, but I would guess they have more free time than I do. Unfortunately I am descaling at about 1.25x the recommended amount, so I know the cell won't last as long...

It's STILL worth it though. The more you can automate, the lazier you can be AND the cleaner your pool will be no matter how lazy you are. It's another KISS principle, just like TFP itself.

 

[Mdragger88]

I live in a different area & my bleach doesn’t cost as much as yours & my pool is a dab bigger but here’s my write up comparison. Gas & electricity aren’t factored in. I run my pool from mid April to the end of October.
With the current updrade sale the universal 55 is also now only $1200

 

[phonedave]

When I looked at it about 2 years ago, it was a wash as well. As others have said, now that I have had it, I would pay double the price just for the convenience it gives me. Getting liquid chlorine was not that big of a hassle for me, I am at Wal*Mart, Home Depot, or in the pool store area, fairly regularly. But I was buying it when I was there. No searching for the lowest price and freshest supply. Adding it was not that much of an issue either. My pool was dialed in to a Quart of 6% bleach a day. I could go days without testing. Just fill up the quart bottle in the morning before work and dump it in.

I thought it was easy.

The SWGC is easy. Liquid chlorine is "not difficult". I can ignore my pool for days on end if I need to, and it is just fine. Yes, I could have gone with a pump and dosed liquid chlorine. But I am very happy with my SWCG and actually wish I had one in my hot tub (I know I can add a drape over, but I have issues with that)

I guess an other thought is, if I was trying to do things as cheaply as possible, I would not have a pool in the first place.

 

[CA92807]

Being in CA, as I am too, you need to consider the increased energy cost of the SWG and the pump. With my summer daytime on-peak rate of $0.53 /kWh it was an easy decision for me to go with a Stenner injector. In full fairness, I didn't accrue any cost for chlorine pickup as I get it from Home Depot and I'm there a least once a month anyway. My Stenner system requires about $25 a year in maintenance supplies and about 1 hour of time.

 

[cowboycasey]

My SJ45 cell lasted 7 years and I keep my FC high at 7 FC with CYA at 80.. My pool is open from Mar 15th or so to Nov 15 or so (water under or over 50 degrees) For about 15 to 30 days a year I use liquid chlorine but I fire up the SWG once the water temp hits 60 degrees...

 

[BowserB]

Being in CA, as I am too, you need to consider the increased energy cost of the SWG and the pump. With my summer daytime on-peak rate of $0.53 /kWh it was an easy decision for me to go with a Stenner injector. In full fairness, I didn't accrue any cost for chlorine pickup as I get it from Home Depot and I'm there a least once a month anyway. My Stenner system requires about $25 a year in maintenance supplies and about 1 hour of time.

$.53 a kwh??? Wow. I've looked at solar once a year for the last three years, and the numbers don't work for me here in southeast Texas, as the best I could do was about a 13 year payback. At 53 cents, though, it just might. Have you investigated solar? I seem to recall that California has a solar tax credit in addition to the federal tax credit.