SWG and Corroded Ti Heater

[techobrien]

Long time lurker, first time poster. First would just like to say thanks for the support this forum has provided.

I have a 13 month old Cal Spa with factory SWG (aka Saltron Mini). Tonight I discovered my heater cartridge has corroded itself badly enough to trip the GFI.

I follow this forums guidelines pretty religiously. But to summarize my water care techniques:

Temp 101-102
SWG runs 1 to 2 hrs per day depending on usage, Free Chlorine hovers between 1 and 5 (it can swing up a lot if we don't use the spa for a few days, but more commonly is between 2 and 4). It has been as high as 10 when the SWG ran away from me for a week or so, or when raising to SLAM which I have only done once.
CC is generally 0.1 - it dropped WAY down after cleaning with Ahhsome and this also reduced my overnight chloring consumption significantly.
I add borates via Boric Acid until 50ppm
When starting up, I use dichlor until CYA is at 30, then switch to the SWG or pure chloring as-needed.
Salt 2500ppm
Since buffering with borates by pH is much more stable but does drift up. I add dry acid ever few weeks to bring it down to approx 7.6, but it's generally between 7.4 - 7.8. Before borates, it would climb up to 8.2 pretty quick.
Because of the dry acid use my TA does drop. I add baking soda to bring it back up to ~80ppm every few months.
My water comes out of the tap with almost zero calcium for whatever reason. I add Calcium Carbonate until CH is 170.
I fill with a filter (provided with my SWG kit)
The spa filter runs ~20 hrs per day via circ pump, and two ozonators run for those ~20 hours as well.
I test with a Taylor K2006.

I HAVE seen some damage to plastics and headrests including discoloration of the spa cover. I'm not sure if this is from the ozone or chlorine, or is normal.

Is anything I'm doing going to cause this kind of corrosion? It's a Titanium heater - I would have expected this system to have lasted longer.




Edit: Photo size for visibility.

 

[sande005]

What specific model? Bought new or used, and how old?
Most (but not all) Cal-Spa models have a 3 year warranty on the equipment. What does your dealer say?

You've got a leak where there shouldn't ever be one - causing things that were never intended to be wet to rust/corrode. At a guess, a bad job of sealing the right hand terminal at the factory.

You didn't mention that it also has an ozone generator, except in passing. But regardless, it seems like you are operating it "as purchased" and likely close enough to factory spec. that chemistry is not the issue. So time pursue a warranty claim....

 

[Mdragger88]

You mentioned cya upon fill but are you topping it up occasionally? Cya degrades in the hotter water of a spa & without it the fc can be quite harsh on things.
You mentioned factory swcg & saltron mini - which is it? If its not a factory supplied/recommended sanitation system it may void your warranty regardless of if it had anything to do with the failure or not.

 

[SJPoe]

Your water/routine looks pretty standard - I would say your water is probably 100 times better than 90% of the hot tub users out there. As a certain member here I believe said once, some hot tubs you wouldn't want to touch from orbit...

My CalSpa came with a 5 year warranty, and my local dealer/store have been excellent at handling the two minor issues we've had. It looks like this is an issue with the posts on the heater rather than the heating element itself - probably a bad seal, which lead to a seeping leak, which then corroded the washer/nut/terminal until it shorts the heater circuit.

My Ozonator 'accidentally' got disconnected...the only discoloration I've notices is with the black foam headrests, but functionally they seem fine, so I don't really care

 

[techobrien]

Thanks for the quick reply folks.

What specific model? Bought new or used, and how old?
Most (but not all) Cal-Spa models have a 3 year warranty on the equipment. What does your dealer say?

You've got a leak where there shouldn't ever be one - causing things that were never intended to be wet to rust/corrode. At a guess, a bad job of sealing the right hand terminal at the factory.

You didn't mention that it also has an ozone generator, except in passing. But regardless, it seems like you are operating it "as purchased" and likely close enough to factory spec. that chemistry is not the issue. So time pursue a warranty claim....

Cal Spa Costa-X EC-767 - purchased brand new from a Cal Spa dealer locally, and installed October '23 so just about 13 months old. I will definitely be making a warranty claim. I think the only thing I do differently for water care other than the Cal Spa "spec" is the TA, which I keep lower than they ask for (I'm at ~80ppm, Cal Spa manual asks for 100-120).

It does have the dual ozone option installed and runs for ~20 hours a day with the circ pump.

You mentioned cya upon fill but are you topping it up occasionally? Cya degrades in the hotter water of a spa & without it the fc can be quite harsh on things.
You mentioned factory swcg & saltron mini - which is it? If its not a factory supplied/recommended sanitation system it may void your warranty regardless of if it had anything to do with the failure or not.

I was unaware of the CYA dropping phenomenon - I'll go re-test. I can't recall seeing any noticeable drop when I was testing CYA regularly, but it's probably been quite a while since I checked.

I called it aka a Saltron Mini because it basically is one. In these systems it looks like Cal Spa has an OEM version from another manufacturer and plugs it into power as well as a separate control panel - no integration with the main controller whatsoever. But this is indeed a factory "Cal Salt" SWG system and I ordered the spa this way so there should be no concerns about the warranty. But I did find it more useful to refer to the Saltron documentation which gives a bit more about FC generation per hour of run time.

Your water/routine looks pretty standard - I would say your water is probably 100 times better than 90% of the hot tub users out there. As a certain member here I believe said once, some hot tubs you wouldn't want to touch from orbit...

My CalSpa came with a 5 year warranty, and my local dealer/store have been excellent at handling the two minor issues we've had. It looks like this is an issue with the posts on the heater rather than the heating element itself - probably a bad seal, which lead to a seeping leak, which then corroded the washer/nut/terminal until it shorts the heater circuit.

My Ozonator 'accidentally' got disconnected...the only discoloration I've notices is with the black foam headrests, but functionally they seem fine, so I don't really care

My CalSpa also has a 5yr warranty from the dealer and I'll definitely be reaching out. I've had a few other weird things happen (like some of the RGB lights are dead) so I'm curious to see how they'll approach the warranty claim. My spa is full-foam so there's no way they're replacing those LED's in the field.

I've read a few others who are pretty against ozone. Did you notice any difference in CC levels after 'accidentally' disabling yours? I always assumed that the ozonators were helping me CC lower while also allowing me to have slightly less FC. I understand ozone also breaks down FC so I can understand how those might be fighting each other. But I've never disconnected it and tested that theory to see if it was actually helping, hurting, or doing nothing.

 

[Mdragger88]

That is very cool about the swcg.
I’m definitely storing that one in the file for later as people ask all the time for recommendations on oem swcg spa options.
Alot more cost effective system than the fresh water disposable cell system that is offered by hot springs.
When I was looking up the cal spas the only accessories/options I could find listed were ozone.
I assume you can simply use a saltron replacement cell? (After your warranty expires)

 

[SJPoe]

I've read a few others who are pretty against ozone. Did you notice any difference in CC levels after 'accidentally' disabling yours? I always assumed that the ozonators were helping me CC lower while also allowing me to have slightly less FC. I understand ozone also breaks down FC so I can understand how those might be fighting each other. But I've never disconnected it and tested that theory to see if it was actually helping, hurting, or doing nothing.

I'm not against Ozone, you just don't really have any way to know if its working or not. From what I've read from people way smarter than me, if anything, it destroys the FC, with little benefit in terms of sanitation, and probably doesn't do any good to any plastic either. I wonder if that SWG can be retrofitted

With just the my wife and I using the spa regularly, we've got a fairly predictable FC demand, so other than a little Muriatic Acid to keep the PH in check occasionally, we've not really had any issues, and I haven't noticed any change in CC etc. I typically change the water in the spa about every 4-6 months - and I purge with AhhSome and change the filters etc when I do. The only warranty issue we've had with the spa was a cracked main filter assembly - looks like it was from the factory, and probably didn't even show up on their original testing. After a couple years, it got big enough that there was a noticeable loss of water, and a persistent wet patch by the base of the spa on the concrete. They had it replaced and back up and running inside a week, total downtime on the spa was maybe two days where I drained, cleaned and then refilled after the fix had time to cure etc.

 

[techobrien]

I wonder if that SWG can be retrofitted

Definitely retrofittable. The biggest advantage so far with the SWG has been chlorine delivery while on vacation.

It gets power from the "AV" power connector in the spa pack. The main difference between the Saltron and the Cal Spa variant is that the buttons and display are connected via a "puck" that sits topside much like the extra spa buttons or Cal Spa ATS Controller. It would be pretty easy to drill out a cup holder and run the cable. There are no other differences to the spa pack. I can take more pictures of the wiring if it'd be helpful.

I believe most of the Cal Spa tubs come default with a Titanium heater but that would be the other other change to the tub to support a SWG as far as I'm aware.

This looks like the full installation kit, but might want to check with a dealer to confirm PN's

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That is very cool about the swcg.
I’m definitely storing that one in the file for later as people ask all the time for recommendations on oem swcg spa options.
Alot more cost effective system than the fresh water disposable cell system that is offered by hot springs.
When I was looking up the cal spas the only accessories/options I could find listed were ozone.
I assume you can simply use a saltron replacement cell? (After your warranty expires)

Yeah! I've been very satisfied with it and I felt more confident in pulling the trigger on a SWG after I saw it's a well-established piece of equipment, and not some proprietary solution like Hotsprings. I do wish it was integrated into the main controller or at least I could set the time on / off from the controller. Like the Saltron, it starts generating as soon as the tub powers up. So in case of a power outage it will reset to generating at that time of the day instead of my preferred time (late night, early AM).

The Cal Salt manual also gives the tip about cleaning the cell by soaking in vinegar and I've done that twice, although I had very little scale / calcification on the cell. I can't see any other differences between Cal Salt and the Saltron other than the one mentioned above. My local dealer also sells me parts at cost, which I believe he quoted $225 for the cell when / if it burns out (quickspaparts has this for $336.00, and the Saltron replacement cell goes for ~$175 it looks like, so still cheaper).

 

[Mdragger88]

I have my saltron mini on a mechanical timer so it comes on for 1 or 2 hours a couple times a day instead of say 4 hours all at once.
In a bigger tub it may not be a big deal but in my small tub it was a fine line between just right and too much with a once a day cycle.
The saltron cells can be had for $125 occasionally, currently $150 on amazon & spa depot. Definitely worth looking into when you’re done with the tub warranty.
In my tub with an average run time of 3hrs a day they tend to last me about 18 months pretty consistently. I’ve had to replace my controller once - about 3 1/2 years in.
If you run a lowish ch & negative csi like myself there’s never been anything to clean off the cell really so I forgo that to help prolong the life of my cell. Cleaning with acid (vinegar included) removes some of the coating that is responsible for the magic of chlorine generation so its best to only do so if the cell actually has buildup. For other types of cells we recommend using a popsicle stick or zip tie to remove any buildup before resorting to a diluted acid solution but that’s not really feasible with these crosshatched design cells.

 

[techobrien]

Dealer service rep was out today and swapped the heater with a new unit. Here's the inside of the tube showing the heating element still in sparkling condition.

I think you all diagnosed it 100% and the service tech agreed - manufacturing defect at the terminals or even a defect in the metal tube itself causing the leak. There seems to be a lot of "material" around the hole for one of the terminals.

Unrelated, he mentioned Cal Spa is switching to Gecko packs from Balboa. I find that surprising as I understood Gecko to be the more "budget" brand.

I have my saltron mini on a mechanical timer so it comes on for 1 or 2 hours a couple times a day instead of say 4 hours all at once.
...
In my tub with an average run time of 3hrs a day they tend to last me about 18 months pretty consistently. I’ve had to replace my controller once - about 3 1/2 years in.
If you run a lowish ch & negative csi like myself there’s never been anything to clean off the cell really so I forgo that to help prolong the life of my cell. Cleaning with acid (vinegar included) removes some of the coating that is responsible for the magic of chlorine generation so its best to only do so if the cell actually has buildup. For other types of cells we recommend using a popsicle stick or zip tie to remove any buildup before resorting to a diluted acid solution but that’s not really feasible with these crosshatched design cells.

I've never seen any significant buildup on mine so I will definitely forgo the cleaning. - thanks! How can you tell when the cell is dead? I'm assuming it's also related to runtime, so if I'm only running 1-2 hrs per day I can expect more life out of mine?

Interesting you say that about the controller failure. The service tech today mentioned the only SWG related failure they've seen frequently is the controller itself give up after a few years, and due to a bad capacitor inside.

 

[Mdragger88]

The first tell tale sign of cell failure that I have experienced with them is the low salt light coming on when the actual salinity is in range.
This is a common symptom for all types swcg’s nearing the end of life.
You can usually add some salt to pacify it into producing to a point but you don’t want to go too high/out of range.
Having an accurate way to test your salt level independently is imperative for a swcg owner or you can easily over salt if relying solely on the controller. If the salt is too high and you throw in a new cell you risk frying it.
Some cells simply just give up the ghost & fail to produce one day.

I am not sure what went wrong with my original controller, I opened it up and checked everything but nothing seemed awry on the board. I was really expecting there to be a spider or something in there.
I’ve got pretty decent electronic skills & I still have it so I may just get a new capacitor and see if I can get it running again so thanks for the tip!

 

[techobrien]

Having an accurate way to test your salt level independently is imperative for a swcg owner or you can easily over salt if relying solely on the controller. If the salt is too high and you throw in a new cell you risk frying it.
Some cells simply just give up the ghost & fail to produce one day.

I am not sure what went wrong with my original controller, I opened it up and checked everything but nothing seemed awry on the board. I was really expecting there to be a spider or something in there.
I’ve got pretty decent electronic skills & I still have it so I may just get a new capacitor and see if I can get it running again so thanks for the tip!

I found the pack of salt test strips I have to be pretty accurate against the Taylor test kit - but I understand they can be pretty inaccurate as well so maybe I just got lucky. I still only rely on the Taylor. Usually I fill up by weight, and even though I only add about 75% and let it stabilize and then add a little more, I end up on the high-end of the spectrum (aim for 2250, end up at 2500). There seems to be a longer time constant for salt dissolving than I'd expect there to be in 101 - 102 degree water.

If these boxes are anything like the old HV LCD driver boards, the first thing I'd look for is aging components like electrolytics. Depending on the symptoms (totally dead vs signs of life but no output) might tell you to look more in a low-voltage vs high-voltage area of the board. Curious if you find anything!

 

[wireform]

I add dry acid ever few weeks to bring it down to approx 7.6, but it's generally between 7.4 - 7.8.

I'd stay away from dry acid and just use muratic acid instead.