Surge protector for VSP

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thrashj7

Member
May 17, 2017
9
Vancleave, MS
Pool Size
26000
Surface
Vinyl
Chlorine
Liquid Chlorine
I just purchased a variable speed pool pump. I want to add a surge protector because of the electronics on it.
I don't have any room in my outside service panel, so thought i would replace my old timer box with a disconnect box at pump itself. My feed wire is UF 12-2 with ground so there is no neutral wire. ( Or does this "ground" act as neutral since grounds and neutrals are on same strip in main panel)?
Is it possible to install a surge protector without neutral wire? Would i be better off adding sub panel to service panel and installing a surge protector there?
Any advice on which surge protector to get?
 
See if you have room in the main (closest to the incoming feeders) to add something like this. It takes the place of two full size breakers so does not need additional room.
Siemens QSA2020SPD Whole House Surge Protection with Two 20-Amp Circuit Breakers https://a.co/d/fBFtaMK
 
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Ahultin said:
See if you have room in the main (closest to the incoming feeders) to add something like this. It takes the place of two full size breakers so does not need additional room.
Siemens QSA2020SPD Whole House Surge Protection with Two 20-Amp Circuit Breakers https://a.co/d/fBFtaMK
Click to expand...
So the Siemens will directly replace my current 2 pole 20 amp pump breaker correct? Top right in OFF position. If so that is great.
Does my not having a neutral wire at pump have any effect on the pumps protection?
Currently have mechanical timer at pump. I know I need to remove the trip pins if I leave it, but is there a better setup to have at the pump with a VSP?
Could I mount a disconnect box and use old the 20A breaker there? Or do I need GFCI breaker?
Or is there a better option for a means of disconnect?
 

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thrashj7 said:
So the Siemens will directly replace my current 2 pole 20 amp pump breaker correct? Top right in OFF position. If so that is great.
Does my not having a neutral wire at pump have any effect on the pumps protection?
Currently have mechanical timer at pump. I know I need to remove the trip pins if I leave it, but is there a better setup to have at the pump with a VSP?
Could I mount a disconnect box and use old the 20A breaker there? Or do I need GFCI breaker?
Or is there a better option for a means of disconnect?
Click to expand...
Unfortunately that won't work in your scenario as the siemens has 2 single pole 20 amp circuits.
I'll start with the following disclaimer lol:
Current NEC code requires the pool pump to be on a gfci breaker, doing this will not resolve that (and does not leave a resolution)
Confirm on the panel door that a tandem breaker will work in your panel, if so pick up one of these QUAD breakers (make sure it's the quad, 2 sets of tied handles)
Quadplex Two Double Pole 30 Amp Outside Two Double Pole 20 Amp Inside Circuit Breaker https://a.co/d/0Q9kd3E
Replace your 30 amp bottom left with the quad and bring the pool pump wires into the 20 amp leg.
Leave the 20 amp 2 pole where it is and pickup an external tyoe 1 surge like this
Intermatic IG1240RC3 Whole Home Type-1 or 2 Surge Protection Device,Gray https://a.co/d/8anJXBO
You can drill the top of the current load center, right side as near as possible to the 20 amp breaker and i stall the surge surface mount on your wall. Neutral from that to the neutral bar, two hots to the 20 amp breaker top right and ground to the ground bar. This will protect that panel and anything on it (including your pump) from surge.
 
Ahultin said:
Unfortunately that won't work in your scenario as the siemens has 2 single pole 20 amp circuits.
I'll start with the following disclaimer lol:
Current NEC code requires the pool pump to be on a gfci breaker, doing this will not resolve that (and does not leave a resolution)
Confirm on the panel door that a tandem breaker will work in your panel, if so pick up one of these QUAD breakers (make sure it's the quad, 2 sets of tied handles)
Quadplex Two Double Pole 30 Amp Outside Two Double Pole 20 Amp Inside Circuit Breaker https://a.co/d/0Q9kd3E
Replace your 30 amp bottom left with the quad and bring the pool pump wires into the 20 amp leg.
Leave the 20 amp 2 pole where it is and pickup an external tyoe 1 surge like this
Intermatic IG1240RC3 Whole Home Type-1 or 2 Surge Protection Device,Gray https://a.co/d/8anJXBO
You can drill the top of the current load center, right side as near as possible to the 20 amp breaker and i stall the surge surface mount on your wall. Neutral from that to the neutral bar, two hots to the 20 amp breaker top right and ground to the ground bar. This will protect that panel and anything on it (including your pump) from surge.
Click to expand...
OK i will follow this plan.
As far as a cut off/disconnect at the pump itself, what would you recommend for that?
 
You could add an outdoor box and use a double pole switch. Do you have a wall near the pump you could mount it on?
TayMac MM420C 1-Gang Nonmetallic Extra Duty Weatherproof In-Use Horizontal/Vertical 16-in-1 Standard Cover, 2.75 in, Clear https://a.co/d/48RgcY0
BELL PSB37550GY Single-Gang Weatherproof Three 1/2 in. or 3/4 in. Threaded Outlets, 2 in, Gray https://a.co/d/1emvh56
Legrand-Pass & Seymour CSB20AC2WCC6 20-Amp 120-volt/277 Voltage Alternating Current Back and Side Wire Commercial Double Pole Switch, White https://a.co/d/4mpxYgy
 

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Ahultin said:
You could add an outdoor box and use a double pole switch. Do you have a wall near the pump you could mount it on?
TayMac MM420C 1-Gang Nonmetallic Extra Duty Weatherproof In-Use Horizontal/Vertical 16-in-1 Standard Cover, 2.75 in, Clear https://a.co/d/48RgcY0
BELL PSB37550GY Single-Gang Weatherproof Three 1/2 in. or 3/4 in. Threaded Outlets, 2 in, Gray https://a.co/d/1emvh56
Legrand-Pass & Seymour CSB20AC2WCC6 20-Amp 120-volt/277 Voltage Alternating Current Back and Side Wire Commercial Double Pole Switch, White https://a.co/d/4mpxYgy
Click to expand...
Yes i have a wall to mount to. I'm going to replace my old timer box. What you sent was pretty much what i had in mind. I had thought to use a 20 amp breaker, but yours will be easier to do. i just wanted to double check if i was on the right track.
Thanks for all the help on this, much appreciated.
 
thrashj7 said:
Yes i have a wall to mount to. I'm going to replace my old timer box. What you sent was pretty much what i had in mind. I had thought to use a 20 amp breaker, but yours will be easier to do. i just wanted to double check if i was on the right track.
Thanks for all the help on this, much appreciated.
Click to expand...
The plus to doing a load center is then you could install the proper gfci breaker. This would entail running new 4 conductor cable and conduit a load center and a gfci breaker
Siemens QF220A QF220 Ground Fault Circuit Interrupter, 20 Amp, 2 Pole, 120 Volt, 10,000 AIC, Color https://a.co/d/gXYzbeu
SIEMENS W0816ML1125CU 125 amp, 8 Space, 16 Circuit, Outdoor Center Load Cente, Gray https://a.co/d/2qAAHKv
www.homedepot.com

Siemens Ground Bar 10 Position ECGB10 - The Home Depot

Reliable product from the technology leader. Technology enabling reliability. When it comes to ready availability, easy installation, and fewer callbacks, you need a manufacturer you can trust. Our products
www.homedepot.com
 
Last edited:
Ahultin said:
The plus to doing a load center is then you could install the proper gfci breaker. This would entail running new 4 conductor cable and conduit a load center and a gfci breaker
Siemens QF220A QF220 Ground Fault Circuit Interrupter, 20 Amp, 2 Pole, 120 Volt, 10,000 AIC, Color https://a.co/d/gXYzbeu
SIEMENS W0816ML1125CU 125 amp, 8 Space, 16 Circuit, Outdoor Center Load Cente, Gray https://a.co/d/2qAAHKv
www.homedepot.com

Siemens Ground Bar 10 Position ECGB10 - The Home Depot

Reliable product from the technology leader. Technology enabling reliability. When it comes to ready availability, easy installation, and fewer callbacks, you need a manufacturer you can trust. Our products
www.homedepot.com
Click to expand...
Sorry for more questions but i have a follow up question about the Siemens QSA2020SPD Whole House Surge Protection with Two 20-Amp Circuit Breakers you mentioned first. Is it the same size as a regular 2 pole breaker?
If i replace my bottom left breaker with a Quadplex as you recommended and used it for my water well pump (30A) and pool pump (20A), could i then remove the 20A top right and put the Siemens QSA2020SPD in that slot? That would give me 2 20A single pole breakers in that slot, correct?
My panel is Midwest brand and accepts Siemens type "QP" breakers
If that will work which would give best protection?
 
Yes , the Siemens QSA2020SPD fits the same spot as your double pole 20 and would add 2 single pole 20 amp breakers. A couple things to note, putting the siemens in your midwest panel seems to void any warranty from siemens. The siemens also has a lower surge capacity of 10ka vs the intermatic at 50ka. The intermatic includes a 5yr $10,000 " connected equipment warranty"
The quad breaker is a qt which is different than qp. There needs to be a "gap" on the buss bar to fit the quad breaker as the quad has a block so it only fits certain spots. Since the quad is available at most local lowes or home depot, I'd grab one of those first and see if it even fits.
 
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