Stray Voltage in Pool

[cowboycasey]

if there are metal sleeves where the ladder was supposed to be then that was probably part of the bonding that is no longer there... Try running a copper wire from the ladder sleeve down into the pool and see what you get...

 

[drsipe]

I went back and looked, you did mention it, but at the time it didn't sink in.

Chances are the sleeves where the ladder and possibly the railings are in the decking are bonded, but with them removed, you may have lost some of your water bonding. If you still have them, try putting them back into the water and see if your stray voltage goes away.

If you don't have them, you can try an experiment and run a wire from the sleeves to the water to see if the stray voltage goes away.

 

[spencia98gt]

I'll try running some wire to the sleeves when I get home. any certain way I need to connect the wire or can I just touch it to the sleeve and the water? Only issue I see is if the sleeves aren't bonded together. Then I would need to run a wire to every single sleeve and the water correct? That slide had 6 sleeves and the rail and ladder have 2 each.

 

[duckcmmndr]

I'll try running some wire to the sleeves when I get home. any certain way I need to connect the wire or can I just touch it to the sleeve and the water? Only issue I see is if the sleeves aren't bonded together. Then I would need to run a wire to every single sleeve and the water correct? That slide had 6 sleeves and the rail and ladder have 2 each.

The water is supposed to be bonded by 9 square inches of bonding material (i.e. legs of ladder)...so a single wire may help you troubleshoot, but it will need more than that for good water bond. Normally the portion of the ladder that is in the pools is much more than 9 square inches. If you have a coil of wire...you might hang a coil of several feet in the water to ensure a good contact area.

 

[drsipe]

I would start with the ladder sleeves, they are the most likely to solve your bonding issue.

Bare copper would work best, and you need to make a good electrical contact to the ladder sleeves. Maybe you could use something to wedge the wires against the sleeve wall. Then as stated above, you may need a few feet of wire in the water. I would use both ladder sleeves with wires run individually.

I'm not sure but some old #12 house wire should work for a test, just remove all the insulation from the wire.

Good luck, I hope this helps you.

 

[spencia98gt]

Well I tried running copper wire from both ladder sleeves into the pool and it did nothing. The current didn’t change at all. I tried the same with the step rail sleeves. Tried bonding the light to the rest of the system again and still had the same outcome as last time. It lowered the current by the steps but raised it everywhere else. Still nowhere else is ever showing as much current as near the steps. I should note we did have our steps repaired as they were badly cracked so the guy had to rebackfill them. Not sure if that could have disrupted anything or not but again that is where the current is highest. Anyways I’m at a loss now. Hoping the electrician might have some better news. I even had a concrete guy come out and give me an estimate to rip out my concrete and get a new bonding grid installed and then recover it. Hoping it doesn’t come to that but it’s m getting to the point where I just need it fixed.

 

[cowboycasey]

You should be able to cut into the existing concrete on 4 corners and hit rebar.. Just tie into that rebar and you are good to go.. Exactly where the rebar is at is the question...

 

[Bperry]

Well I tried running copper wire from both ladder sleeves into the pool and it did nothing. The current didn’t change at all. I tried the same with the step rail sleeves. Tried bonding the light to the rest of the system again and still had the same outcome as last time. It lowered the current by the steps but raised it everywhere else. Still nowhere else is ever showing as much current as near the steps. I should note we did have our steps repaired as they were badly cracked so the guy had to rebackfill them. Not sure if that could have disrupted anything or not but again that is where the current is highest. Anyways I’m at a loss now. Hoping the electrician might have some better news. I even had a concrete guy come out and give me an estimate to rip out my concrete and get a new bonding grid installed and then recover it. Hoping it doesn’t come to that but it’s m getting to the point where I just need it fixed.

What are the voltages again? I thought when you bonded the light niche to the pump, everything was reading around 0.5V? I’d say to keep that and see if you can find the next highest area and bond that back to the pump bond lug as well.
If the pool is 30 years old, there may not be rebar in the deck. My pool is only 20 and there isn’t rebar, though I wish there was.

 

[kellyfair]

It‘s interesting that there seems to be a time pattern earlier in the thread.

 

[drsipe]

Well I tried running copper wire from both ladder sleeves into the pool and it did nothing. The current didn’t change at all. I tried the same with the step rail sleeves. Tried bonding the light to the rest of the system again and still had the same outcome as last time. It lowered the current by the steps but raised it everywhere else. Still nowhere else is ever showing as much current as near the steps. I should note we did have our steps repaired as they were badly cracked so the guy had to rebackfill them. Not sure if that could have disrupted anything or not but again that is where the current is highest. Anyways I’m at a loss now. Hoping the electrician might have some better news. I even had a concrete guy come out and give me an estimate to rip out my concrete and get a new bonding grid installed and then recover it. Hoping it doesn’t come to that but it’s m getting to the point where I just need it fixed.

Sorry, that didn't work. I hope the electrician can provide a solution.

Please keep us informed as to your actions and results, that way we can all learn.

 

[spencia98gt]

Finally got the electrician out here today and to much dismay not much was accomplished. He found some issues in the sub panel with the grounds and neutrals but not much else. Voltage wasn’t there when he arrived but luckily it started before he left. Yea there is definitely a pattern. Seems to start around 5pm most every day. When I bonded the light niche the voltage went from 4 down to about .5 at the steps but it jumped up to 1.5 everywhere else around the pool. The electricians best guess was that maybe it is bonded but just on one corner near the light and that’s why the voltage seems the strongest on the other side of the pool near the steps. That is all just a guess though. He thinks my next option may be to cut a trench in the concrete around the entire pool and run a new bonding wire and connect it to 4 corners of the pool plus all the metal sleeves. What are y’all’s thoughts on this? I’m definitely willing to do whatever it takes at this point.

 

[mguzzy]

Yeah.. it sounds like there is a break in your bonding grid somewhere and its causing the potential to move around depending on what part of the grid you try to connect. like some kind of weird bridge circuit. I think his plan is sound, and see if you can create a new bonding grid to negate the stray potentials. What's weird is the temporal aspect of the pattern. What is going on in your area at 5pm? ooooweeeehooooo!

 

[cowboycasey]

hmmm, you could try something out, I am all about DIY.... On the outside edge of your concrete in the dirt run a complete #8 cooper wire around your pool, connect it to all your equipment...

On 4 corners drill into your concrete and connect the wire using one of these clamps Bronze Bonding Clamp 2125 UL

But instead of using the included bolt use a concrete bolt like this...https://www.lowes.com/pd/Simpson-Strong-Tie-6-in-x-5-8-in-Concrete-Anchors/1002707772

And coat the bolt and clamp in this Amazon.com: NO-OX-ID Two 2-Ounce Tubs A-Special Electrical Contact Grease - Improves Conductivity and Fights Corrosion in Automotive Marine Industrial Maintenance Antenna and Railroad Applications: Automotive

Will this work?? I am not sure but it is WAY less expensive then tearing out your existing concrete and starting from scratch... If it does not work your not out to much money and you can still use the wire and the no ox on batteries and all kinds of stuff..

 

[ajw22]

Yea there is definitely a pattern. Seems to start around 5pm most every day.

This is an important clue that should not be ignored. This tells you some switched device, not connected to a GFCI, is leaking current into the ground circuit.

The device could be around your property or your neighbors.

Find the device and you will fix your problem.

Use your voltmeter in different areas of your property and on your neighbors property and see if you can map out an area where the voltage increases and follow it.

 

[spencia98gt]

hmmm, you could try something out, I am all about DIY.... On the outside edge of your concrete in the dirt run a complete #8 cooper wire around your pool, connect it to all your equipment...

On 4 corners drill into your concrete and connect the wire using one of these clamps Bronze Bonding Clamp 2125 UL

But instead of using the included bolt use a concrete bolt like this...https://www.lowes.com/pd/Simpson-Strong-Tie-6-in-x-5-8-in-Concrete-Anchors/1002707772

And coat the bolt and clamp in this Amazon.com: NO-OX-ID Two 2-Ounce Tubs A-Special Electrical Contact Grease - Improves Conductivity and Fights Corrosion in Automotive Marine Industrial Maintenance Antenna and Railroad Applications: Automotive

Will this work?? I am not sure but it is WAY less expensive then tearing out your existing concrete and starting from scratch... If it does not work your not out to much money and you can still use the wire and the no ox on batteries and all kinds of stuff..

I would love for this to work but i thought the bonding wire needed to be 24” from the pool and connected to the pool wall in 4 corners as well as all the metal sleeves?

 

[spencia98gt]

This is an important clue that should not be ignored. This tells you some switched device, not connected to a GFCI, is leaking current into the ground circuit.

The device could be around your property or your neighbors.

Find the device and you will fix your problem.

Use your voltmeter in different areas of your property and on your neighbors property and see if you can map out an area where the voltage increases and follow it.

This is an important clue that should not be ignored. This tells you some switched device, not connected to a GFCI, is leaking current into the ground circuit.

The device could be around your property or your neighbors.

Find the device and you will fix your problem.

Use your voltmeter in different areas of your property and on your neighbors property and see if you can map out an area where the voltage increases and follow it.

Well the past couple of days it started around 3:00….and occasionally it skips a day. The problem is I’m on 15 acres and both immediate neighbors are on 8 acres of mostly woods. It’s going to be tough map out a grid but would I just be touching the meter to the ground in different places?

 

[ajw22]

Well the past couple of days it started around 3:00….and occasionally it skips a day. The problem is I’m on 15 acres and both immediate neighbors are on 8 acres of mostly woods. It’s going to be tough map out a grid but would I just be touching the meter to the ground in different places?

You have a well pump or something? Someone in your house always as take a shower around 3 PM?

You really are on a treasure hunt and need to explore and experiment until you stumble across it.

Keep looking.

 

[wgipe]

I wonder if you could isolate it by waiting until it happens, then turning off breakers one by one (in all panels, working from the subpanel(s) back to the main panel) to see if the stray voltage incrementally or completely drops.

 

[Bperry]

Its also entirely possible that ground water or moisture under the deck interacts with elements in the deck to generate a voltage differential. It doesn't need to be leaking utilities or anything like that. Its only my opinion but in think you're probably on a wild goose chase and just need to bond deck so it doesn't matter where the voltage is coming from.

 

[spencia98gt]

You have a well pump or something? Someone in your house always as take a shower around 3 PM?

You really are on a treasure hunt and need to explore and experiment until you stumble across it.

Keep looking.

I do have a well pump but that’s not it I don’t believe since I’m cut power to the whole house and the voltage is still there. Plus once the voltage starts it’s there well into the night