Strange tube exiting around pool

[Dirk]

I agree with all of the posts above that you need to contact the neighbor. You did once and got blown off. You can try a second time. If you get blown off again, then I would use @ajw22 's route of a certified letter.

That is exactly the right approach, IMO, and what I was getting at. You give the neighbor every opportunity to do the right thing, starting with a face-to-face. Then a letter. All before you "turn him in" or engage a lawyer. The letter itself is a salvo, and one that can be misconstrued and resented. That's why I think the face-to-face comes first. If he ignores all that, then it's open season. That may be a foregone conclusion, but even if the conversation and the letter don't work, you can feel good about having done the right thing. Do unto others...

Remember, it's not just the one neighborhood relationship you're trying to protect. What's about to happen will spread like fire up and down the street. He'll tell his side, you'll tell yours. You want to be on the right side.

Just projecting here. My neighborhood is awesome and I value those relationships highly. We help each other. Look out for each other. Guard each other's homes, etc. These relationships can be beneficial for decades, but resentments can outlast 'em. I might even consider helping with expenses before I let something like this turn into a feud. It's not always just about the money or even who was right.

 

[ajw22]

or engage a lawyer.

If you are not familiar with your local government then doing some intelligence gathering from a lawyer who regularly deals with them is not engaging a lawyer but giving you ideas of how to approach them and what response you can expect.

 

[JoyfulNoise]

I think when you are at the letter writing stage, it’s best to use a lawyer or legal service. Lawyers know how to word things and use professional language to make sure what’s being stated is appropriate and factual. It also adds a layer or separation between the emotions of the offended party and the accused. That is very valuable as it is not easy to write in a neutral voice when you are upset about a situation. I have had a few CDL’s drafted in my time by a legal service and they were all way better than anything I could have ever come up with on my own. And, in all those circumstances, the letters had the right effect and the situations were resolved without resorting to any local court.

 

[Dirk]

I think when you are at the letter writing stage, it’s best to use a lawyer or legal service. Lawyers know how to word things and use professional language to make sure what’s being stated is appropriate and factual. It also adds a layer or separation between the emotions of the offended party and the accused. That is very valuable as it is not easy to write in a neutral voice when you are upset about a situation. I have had a few CDL’s drafted in my time by a legal service and they were all way better than anything I could have ever come up with on my own. And, in all those circumstances, the letters had the right effect and the situations were resolved without resorting to any local court.

So true. I used a buddy that was familiar with Contractor Law. I would write my letters as best I could, and then he would edit out about 75%, citing the exact reasons you mentioned (appropriate and factual, neutral voice, etc).

I chose not to use a lawyer, because the amounts I've sued for were less than what a lawyer would cost, so I rolled the dice. If you're in Small Claims court, the judge (if you get that far) is generally going to be lenient in terms of wording and concepts. But if you're in Superior Court, then ya gotta have your ducks in a row. At today's prices, building a proper drainage system could easily put you above the Small Claims limit.

Which is another reason to see if you can settle this amicably, directly with the neighbor. Once the lawyers get involved, they're generally the only winners. In situations like this, there can be two letters (I've used even more myself). The first is a written version of your expectations and can include a running record of your attempts to settle this directly with the neighbor. If that doesn't work, then the next letter is a "legal" demand letter, which, in CA, has certain required components. And I wouldn't try talking anyone out of using a lawyer for that. But the judge can be influenced in your favor if you can show that you put an honest effort into trying to solve this amicable, directly. They're not too keen on folks jumping right to the lawyer and lawsuit stage without even trying to settle it. In fact, in Small Claims (and perhaps in Superior Court (not sure)), sometimes the first thing the judge will ask is if you've tried to work this out. And if not, she'll send you out into the hallway to try (there's likely a Superior Court version of this step as well). It's only after the judge is satisfied that both parties tried to work it out that she'll even hear the case. That's been my experience, anyway. If you're holding copies of letters and notes of conversations, and the defendant had got none of that, because he just ignored you, that's going to help your case.

It's easy for us to say "go talk to a lawyer" or "have them write a letter." But at $300-500 an hour, that can get out of hand fast. Perhaps the "legal services" that Matt is suggesting are not that bad. I've never used one.

Talk to your neighbor. Matt gave you some good ammo:

Basically the neighbor added a pool plus XXX square feet of hard deck plus another YYY square feet of sod/turf. The grade may or may not have changed significantly, but the ratio of hard impervious surface area to total surface area has ... and likely by a lot. This completely changes the flow of water and it's absorption by the ground. It may be the case that this neighbor's yard is no longer capable of holding or absorbing the same amount of water that it did previously and the water that does fall has to find a new route. That will very likely increase the water flow in areas between the homes.

The neighbor might honestly think that the grade didn't cause the problem (hey, benefit of the doubt!), but as Matt points out, it's not all about the grading. Many municipalities limit impervious surface area for this very reason. Too much impacts not only drainage but other environmental factors as well. The strategy I would use, as politely as possible, is the "we can do this the easy way, or the hard way" MO I mentioned. If the neighbor doesn't want to do what's right, maybe he can be convinced to do what's cheapest. Involving the building department, inspectors, engineers won't be that and getting into red tags and legal battles won't be that.

 

[poolq635]

What is your relationship like with your neighbor? And what do you want it to be? Because we can do this the easy way, or the hard way. But at some point they'll need to accept the fact that they're going to need to spend some money, maybe a lot of money, to fix the drainage problem. Before we get into it, you and they need to decide how this is going to go down.

Are pics of their pool, or yours, or do you both have pools?

Short version, in most municipalities, you're responsible for your own property's drainage, and where it goes. And it cannot run unabated onto someone else's. So you'll "win" any action this might require to make right, but I'd hate to see it cost you a neighbor.

We both have pools. It is a strange lot configuration. I have 5ft of my property that is past my house but in their yard. So the one picture is the water going into my rear yard near my pool & the other deeper water is in "their yard" but the 5 feet of my property is the part covered with the water (along my foundation).

I ended up finding a neighbor with a pump that was able to help me. It was 6-8inches deep so enough for their pump to get in. Relationship with neighbor is already bad, she has cameras all over and pointed in my yard and 5ft from my bedroom windows on that side so pretty creepy. She wouldn't let the other person come in with the pump to drain the water, took HOA getting involved and telling her she had too. I don't think this is going to be easy to fix Much appreciate everyone's thoughts on this. it is really helpful

 

[poolq635]

You can contact the Building Department that handles the building permit issued for the pool construction and ask them about the problem that you believe is caused by the pool construction.

You can request that an inspection be done.

They might, or might not, be able to help you.

Just saying that there is water on your property and you are concerned is not enough for the building department to take action.

You typically need some sort of description of what the problem is, what is causing the problem, what the possible solutions are, who’s at fault etc.

If the cause is not immediately obvious, then they will want a professional opinion from a qualified professional.

TY for this. I went down to the city to try to address and you are spot on. They have already failed multiple drainage inspections. The pool permit has been open for close to a year and still hasn't passed all the pool safety inspections.

 

[poolq635]

That was going to be my suggestion, but that's why I asked first about the relationship with the neighbor. If @poolq635 goes to the local building authorities, even for just some fact finding, that could trigger an inspection or inquiry. Some building departments now engage in proactive revenue-finding missions, where they actively seek out red-tag situations, to generate fees and fines.

He needs to first discuss this with his neighbor to work this out. A neighborly conversation that then gets a contractor involved to correct the problem will no doubt be far less trouble and expense than if the local building department gets involved. That could end up costing the neighbor all sorts of fines and permit fees and engineering fees, etc. Thousands of dollars. If that happens without the neighbor's input, that could certainly cause some permanent damage to the relationship.

I'm not discouraging getting the fix done right, and getting it inspected. That's the right approach. I'm just saying that possibility needs to be thought out, and 635 and his neighbor would ideally be on the same page about the process. I'm pretty confident the fix will happen at the neighbor's expense, the trick is to manage and maintain the relationship, which could conceivably impact 635's quality of life for decades.

I would not be happy if my neighbor needed me to do something that was going to cost me a chunk of change (like replacing the fence or something like that). But there would be a huge difference between him handing me a bill vs first coming over and talking to me about it, and working out the best solution for us both. I would get over the expense eventually, but him going behind my back about it would take a whole lot longer.

Couldn't agree more. I was relieved when I went down to the city. I asked to look at the plans and inspections and they gave me copies. They already failed multiple, so at least that is already in process on its own

 

[JamesW]

Have you tried to speak to the neighbors?

If they are not ready, willing and able to deal with this immediately, you probably will need to begin to file complaints to request some sort of resolution.

You can file a complaint and ask the city for help.

Contact the contractor who is listed on the permit and ask them about the situation.

You can file complaints against the contractor if they cannot help you.

You can contact their insurance company and see what they can do to help you.

 

[ajw22]

Couldn't agree more. I was relieved when I went down to the city. I asked to look at the plans and inspections and they gave me copies. They already failed multiple, so at least that is already in process on its own

Document every flooding incident and notify the town building department and HOA. You need to be squeaky to keep tne bureaucrats focused on your problem.

 

[JoyfulNoise]

We both have pools. It is a strange lot configuration. I have 5ft of my property that is past my house but in their yard. So the one picture is the water going into my rear yard near my pool & the other deeper water is in "their yard" but the 5 feet of my property is the part covered with the water (along my foundation).

I ended up finding a neighbor with a pump that was able to help me. It was 6-8inches deep so enough for their pump to get in. Relationship with neighbor is already bad, she has cameras all over and pointed in my yard and 5ft from my bedroom windows on that side so pretty creepy. She wouldn't let the other person come in with the pump to drain the water, took HOA getting involved and telling her she had too. I don't think this is going to be easy to fix Much appreciate everyone's thoughts on this. it is really helpful

Did the HOA approve those plans? Most HOAs have an architectural review committee that is usually required to approve any plans and most CC&Rs will explicitly require that drainage of properties not be affected by any upgrades. If they approved the pool without a proper drainage plan then you have grounds to sue both the individual homeowner AND the HOA. Read your HOA’s CC&Rs to see what the obligations are.

 

[Newdude]

Most HOAs have an architectural review committee that is usually required to approve any plans and most CC&Rs will explicitly require that drainage of properties not be affected by any upgrades.

I went to Google a meme but Google just knew and now THAT is the joke and I don't need the meme.




+1. Sic the Karens on them.

 

[Dirk]

Interesting idea about the HOA. Lighting a fire under them might work, as they'll pass those flames onto the neighbor. The HOA would then want the matter resolved quickly, to limit their legal exposure. I suppose you want to stay on the good side of the HOA, but is there such a thing?

There is a legal concept that allows HOAs to be sued, and with good cause. Spite! (Look it up.)

 

[JoyfulNoise]

Interesting idea about the HOA. Lighting a fire under them might work, as they'll pass those flames onto the neighbor. The HOA would then want the matter resolved quickly, to limit their legal exposure. I suppose you want to stay on the good side of the HOA, but is there such a thing?

There is a legal concept that allows HOAs to be sued, and with good cause. Spite! (Look it up.)

HOA’s have the ability to apply fines to individual homeowners to compel corrections and they can also attach liens to homes in the association when deficienies are not remedied. I was the president of our small HOA for a few years and I can tell you that no HOA board wants to deal with neighbor disputes and will do everything it can quickly to fix the situation. They also don’t usually have the financial wear with all nor time to deal with a lawsuit.

Get the HOA involved.

 

[JamesW]

The contractors are doing the work and it is their responsibility to do it correctly without causing any problems to anyone else.

Contact the contractors to let them know that they need to fix the problem that they created.

Contact the Contractors State License Board to verify the contractor’s licenses, bonds and insurances.

The Contractors State License Board (CSLB) protects California consumers by licensing and regulating the state's construction industry.

Describe the issue and see what they can do to help.

The contractors should be listed on the permits.

Are the contractors required to be bonded and insured?

If the contractors are causing any problems, then the insurances and bonds can come into effect, so you can contact the contractor’s insurance company and their bond company and ask them to review the matter.

Contact CSLB - CSLB

www.cslb.ca.gov

 

[poolq635]

Did the HOA approve those plans? Most HOAs have an architectural review committee that is usually required to approve any plans and most CC&Rs will explicitly require that drainage of properties not be affected by any upgrades. If they approved the pool without a proper drainage plan then you have grounds to sue both the individual homeowner AND the HOA. Read your HOA’s CC&Rs to see what the obligations are.

The plans asked for a raised pool -14 inches ish but not a raised yard. Said up to 4inches base fill. It looks more like 2ft bc we had a 6ft privacy wall but now I can see everyone mid torso up before I couldn’t see tops of heads even.

 

[poolq635]

I went to Google a meme but Google just knew and now THAT is the joke and I don't need the meme.

View attachment 551212


+1. Sic the Karens on them.

This is the worst part she is friends with the head of the arch committee. She literally refused to let me in her yard yesterday to drain the water and had to get others to force it. Unreal

 

[poolq635]

The contractors are doing the work and it is their responsibility to do it correctly without causing any problems to anyone else.

Contact the contractors to let them know that they need to fix the problem that they created.

Contact the Contractors State License Board to verify the contractor’s licenses, bonds and insurances.

The Contractors State License Board (CSLB) protects California consumers by licensing and regulating the state's construction industry.

Describe the issue and see what they can do to help.

The contractors should be listed on the permits.

Are the contractors required to be bonded and insured?

If the contractors are causing any problems, then the insurances and bonds can come into effect, so you can contact the contractor’s insurance company and their bond company and ask them to review the matter.

Contact CSLB - CSLB

www.cslb.ca.gov

I looked him up and he is a pool contractor not general contractor. Only a few years experience. Can a pool contractor do this kind of grade stuff and drains?

 

[Newdude]

She literally refused to let me in her yard yesterday to drain the water and had to get others to force it.

Can we get some clarification here ? Is their yard filling up and then spilling into yours ? Is that why you wanted to drain her yard, to buy you more time before it spilled over again ?

Also, where do you pump to ?

 

[JamesW]

Can a pool contractor do this kind of grade stuff and drains?

Contact the Contractors State License Board to see what they can tell you.

It depends on what licenses they have and if they have the right permits.

Do the plans and permits specify what subcontractors are working on the job?

Maybe the grading is being subcontracted to a different company?

The Building Permit Department can tell you if the right permits have been issued.

The HOA has to follow the rules and they should not allow personal matters to affect their decisions.

 

[JamesW]

It is a strange lot configuration. I have 5ft of my property that is past my house but in their yard. So the one picture is the water going into my rear yard near my pool & the other deeper water is in "their yard" but the 5 feet of my property is the part covered with the water (along my foundation).

This makes no sense.

How is your property in their yard?

If it is your property, isn't it your yard?