Starting TFPC

No particular order really that you have to do the test in I generally start with the 1st one on the instructions, and go from there. http://www.troublefreepool.com/threads/24188-Extended-Test-Kit-Directions

Here's a couple of hints: use the 10ml water samples, instead of the 25ml water sample for any tests you can. This will save you reagents this is especially helpful for your FC and CC tests because during the slam you will be testing those A lot. Just multiply the drops its takes to clear it .5, and that will be your level. Also, when using the 10ml water sample for Fc/CC testing use just 1 scoop of powder instead of 2, as long as you get a nice med pink color when you add the powder it will test out just fine. :)

In regards to your questions: The 1st thing we need you to do is to provide us with a complete set of levels, from your new test kit, so we can see where you are currently at, and we can better instruct you on what would be your best plan of action given all your current circumstances, and your current test results.

If you can't get a reading on the CYA the regular way (which is quite possible in your case as we are expecting it to be very high) Then:
You can do a diluted CYA test instead and this will help you get an accurate level reading.
This is done by mixing 1/2 pool water, and 1/2 tap water in equal parts. You can fill your plastic measuring container to the 7ml mark with pool water and then fill to the 14 ml mark with tap water. Shake to mix and then pour out 1/2 of it back down to the 7ml line).
With the plastic measuring vial for the CYA test at the 7ml mark with that diluted water,
then fill the vial up from the 7ml line to the 14ml line with the R-0013 solution.
Shake for 30 seconds to mix.
Then start adding it to the view tube until the dot disappears. (If you are having trouble determining the exact level you can pour the solution back and forth several times from the view tube to the plastic vial and keep checking it to make sure you have it correct).
****Once the dot disappears multiple that number by 2, and that is your current CYA level. (The directions for the diluted CYA test is also listed in the Extended test results link at the top as well).

I hope this helps. Just post your results like this:
FC
CC
pH
TA
CH
CYA
and someone will help you after that. :) Have a wonderful day.
 
So, got the results

FC 4.5 it was cloudy and didn't go clear so I went back and redid it after reading that this could be due to CH
CC 1
TC 5.5
pH 7.5
CYA edited --- redid this as suggested with the half pool water half tap water and after multiplying x2 it is 150
TA 400 ish? It seemed to stay green a long time with red strands that dissipated. Added 40 drops ish. Might have a few drops less than I counted but not much
CH 1200

on the pink/yellow container for pH and chlorine, the yellow colouring for chlorine was somewhere between 2 and 3 (or both!)
 
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Cloudy FC test is okay. You are just looking for the Red to go away. CYA really only goes to 100. I would recommend doing the diluted test on that one just to be sure. The scale isn't linear so by the time you get to 100, 200 is only like 1/16 of inch away.
 
I'm guessing that the first order of business is going to be reducing the CYA and CH by removing the water. What would be the highest acceptable level to minimise water needed to refill? If I put target CYA of 90 into pool math, it tells me to take out 50% of the water to achieve that level. How does that sound?
We normally have decent rainfall in October and I could keep the level a bit lower so that I don't have to pump any of it out. A few inches of that is also going to reduce the CYA?
I need a maintenance plan to see me through to the end of October - any suggestions?

thanks
 
+1 to Ale's comment above

At a 150ppm CYA, and a 1200 CH level a 50% drain should lower the CYA to 75ppm, and the CH to ? How much the Ch is lowered would also depend on your fill water levels too. (You can test your fill water level to see what you will be putting back in on the refill. (In the perfect world we'd like to see that the CYA will decrease by half which it should, but unfortunately the CH will decrease in reality by? depending on your fill water level.

I don't know that I wouldn't opt for at least a 75% drain, and refill because my biggest concern would be that once you refill your levels are still going to be higher than you want them still, and be risking scaling because of the CH level still being higher than recommended. IMO at a 50% drain and refill and where your levels are currently at, you'll probably end up having to do a 2nd drain, and refill to get it to where you want/need the levels to be.

The 50% would certainly help some, but I think at least a 75%, would in the long run be more beneficial, and possible save you from a 2nd drain in refill in the near future. Others may tell you differently, but if it were me I'd try to get it all taken care of the 1st go around.

Here is a link that tells what the recommended levels should be. http://www.troublefreepool.com/content/134-recommended-levels

I hope this helps. Just holler back with any questions you might have, and someone will be glad to answer them for you. Have a wonderful day. :)
 
surfbabe,

What are your day time temperatures like right now?

You do not want to drain a plaster pool when the day time temps go over ~85F or else you risk plaster cracking. Draining 75% of a pool your size is going to take a long time. You will not be able to use the pool pump to do it but instead should look to rent a commercial-grade submersible pump that can drain at least 3000 gallons/hr of water. If you do drain during the day, you will need to keep the plaster wet by using a garden hose to spray it down.

How many spigots do you have at your house? When you refill, you'll want to do it as quickly as you can and so having 2 or 3 hoses into the pool will help a lot.


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surfbabe,

What are your day time temperatures like right now?

You do not want to drain a plaster pool when the day time temps go over ~85F or else you risk plaster cracking. Draining 75% of a pool your size is going to take a long time. You will not be able to use the pool pump to do it but instead should look to rent a commercial-grade submersible pump that can drain at least 3000 gallons/hr of water. If you do drain during the day, you will need to keep the plaster wet by using a garden hose to spray it down.

How many spigots do you have at your house? When you refill, you'll want to do it as quickly as you can and so having 2 or 3 hoses into the pool will help a lot.


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We are still mid 90's during the day, going down to 71 in the early hours of the morning. October should see a regular decrease in temperature to about high 70's, low 80's by the end of the month - according to accuweather.

Average precipitation for October is 4 inches. Last 2 years we have had heavy rainfall above that.

I can test the water supply for CH levels.

I have 3 spigots that I can use for refilling.

I can see the logic for emptying more of the water to get those CYA an CH levels down.

I'd also like to take advantage of october rainfall to refill. 4" of water is a lot of money I can save.

So from comments so far:
I shouldn't empty out the pool until the weather cools down a bit more because of concerns with the plaster?
I can empty it out ?75% and take advantage of rainfall in October? This would be helpful because we will not need garden irrigation so water consumption will again be minimised.
I should investigate hiring a pump? Ours seems to empty it out quickly when needed so I'll measure the amount it removes per hour?
Utilise 3 outside spigots for refill. I seem to remember our pool in France took days to fill and it was about the same size.

Looks like I should be ready to empty the water out mid october when the temperatures fall - keeping an eye on the weather forecast for rain to arrive.

In the meantime to minimise algae problems should I just pour in one gallon a day of household bleach?

Edited to add that water supply CH is 125ppm
 
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Just remember that the flow rate of a pool pump is not constant. As the water level drops the pumping efficiency drops as well. This is because pool pumps are designed to move water at high pressure but not very large vertical distances. Submersible pumps are designed for moving water longer vertical distances at high flow rates and low pressure. So even if you measure the flow rate of your pool pump when the pool is full, it's going to be a lot lower once the water level drops.

Renting a sub-pump is not that expensive. Most Home Depots or Lowes hardware stores rent them.


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Also, another thought. Is there a lower spot close to your pool? Mine sits on a considerable rise so when I needed to lower it at the beginning of the year, I just used the vacuum hose and laid it down the hill. Started the flow with one of the returns and then turned off the pump. It was 1/2 empty is under and hour. Now it's true that my pool is less than 5000 gals but still, might be an idea for you.

- - - Updated - - -

Just remember that the flow rate of a pool pump is not constant. As the water level drops the pumping efficiency drops as well. This is because pool pumps are designed to move water at high pressure but not very large vertical distances. Submersible pumps are designed for moving water longer vertical distances at high flow rates and low pressure. So even if you measure the flow rate of your pool pump when the pool is full, it's going to be a lot lower once the water level drops.

Renting a sub-pump is not that expensive. Most Home Depots or Lowes hardware stores rent them.


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Plus if you have a Harbor Freight near by it might be cheaper to just buy the pump and then have it if you need it again.
 
Sounding good Surfbabe. Yes just continue with the daily bleach adds to keep the algae issue from worsening in the process. Maybe you'll get lucky, and it will all run out with the water :) j/k. It's also good to see that your fill CH is at a good range too.

This is just a FYI that I thought was interesting regarding one drain and refill that I read about. One member (as it was needed during the scorching hot Summer months), did their large drain, and refill to prevent from actually draining the pool down at all, so as to not risk any potential issues from the low water levels. What they did was: They actually drained their water from the lowest point of the shallow end of the pool, and refilled it at the deepest point of the deep end of the pool at the same time, and apparently it worked out fine to achieve their purpose. Of course, if a person only has a single depth pool that wouldn't be an option, but I thought it was a rather genius solution to attempt to prevent any potential low water level issues. (Not that I'd recommend this technique necessarily but I thought it was a pretty cool idea).

But Surfbabe with you having 3 spigots refilling at once, and are going to wait for the temps to drop some too, you should be in pretty good shape to prevent any major mishaps from occurring during the drain/refill process. Have a wonderful day :)
 
You may already have thought of this, but the best way to take advantage of your 4+" of rain is to anticipate the rain and drain ahead of time. If you wait to drain until after the rainfall you only gain half the benefit due to dilution.

Also a lot has been written about those of us in very sunny climes living with a CYA of 80-100 while we slowly bring it down by refilling with rain. You just have to use the CYA/FC chart and keep your levels correct.
I went from around 160 to 60 but took me almost a year. No algae by monitoring FC closely. You do use slightly more CL I am told here when you have high CYA but fast drains are not a good idea it is an option
 
Still another "slow and steady" option is to swap irrigation water for full water. You turn off your irrigation system (if you have one) and you water your landscaping with pool water (assuming your pumping station has a spigot located somewhere in the piping).

Folks in desert climates or areas under water restrictions have done that. Pool water is typically ok for most landscape vegetation and you can look up specific plants if you suspect they have low tolerance to saline water (pool water is typically saltier than irrigation water).


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Surfbabe, I just plugged in all your numbers in PoolMath because I knew your CSI was high at those levels, but I want to see just how high. Your current CSI-Calcite Saturation Index is currently at 1.15. Recommended levels is above -0.6 and below 0.6. Here is a link that discusses how scaling can occur at the elevated CSI levels. http://www.troublefreepool.com/content/149-calcium-scaling So of course, the sooner you can take care of the draining and refill to get those levels down, the less chance of scaling occurring in your pool/plumbing you will have. I hope this helps, and have a wonderful night. :)
 
Once again, thanks everyone for your help :D

@Wildcat I have tried to search for posts on managing high CYA whilst living in a hot climate and based on my reading having a high FC is not a big issue and that the formula for the correct FC is 7.5% of CYA? I take it there is no point "SLAMing" my pool until I've lowered the CYA? Is an FC level of 11-12 an issue?

"Also a lot has been written about those of us in very sunny climes living with a CYA of 80-100 while we slowly bring it down by refilling with rain. You just have to use the CYA/FC chart and keep your levels correct.
I went from around 160 to 60 but took me almost a year. No algae by monitoring FC closely. You do use slightly more CL I am told here when you have high CYA but fast drains are not a good idea it is an option"

Wildcat, could you tell me exactly what you did? Did you just lower the pool level prior to whenever rain was forecast?

Is it best to add bleach at night or in the morning?


 

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The 7.5% of your CYA would be your absolute minimum FC, your target should be 11-12%.

I test and add in the early evening because it is convienent for me.

Dom
 
I'm still hanging in here....
I was hoping for a decent amount of rainfall in October but so far, nothing. So, I've somewhat bitten the bullet and formulated a plan which I'm part of the way through.
I bought a sump pump and hoses, I've pumped out about 30% of the water and used it to irrigate my garden - having turned off the irrigation. I'm in the process of refilling the pool and will re-test everything tomorrow. I have muriatic acid and I'll buy a load of bleach ready to start SLAMming the pool and spa. My plan over the next 6 months is to use pool water to irrigate the garden as necessary and replace the pool water used with fresh water, thereby not using extra water to change the pool water. Our water is metered in tiers and the last one is really expensive - I've been minimising washing machine use as well!
 
Well, we had a pretty major storm in Austin over the weekend, as those of you watching the F1 will have seen....the pool and spa were in a terrible state because the heavy downpours took leaves and a brown icky pollen(?) off the trees and into the pool. It took 2 days of cleaning to get all the brown bits and leaves/sticks out of the pool and so finally today I decided to start a SLAM.


I am happy to report that cya is now down to 80! Couldn't quite believe it, so I ran the test 3 times.....
chlorines were all at 0
pH was 7.8

so as advised by PoolMath I added muriatic acid to bring down pH to 7.5 and then 10 jugs of bleach. After 45 mins I tested the water and it was at 41 for FC which is too high and 1 for CC. I had used the pool info from the stuff left by the previous owners and I reckon the max volume of the pool must be 26,500 gallons and it is not at max volume right now. I will monitor and adjust so that the FC is at 31 next time.

The only thing I'd really like to ask right now is about the spa which is on the side of the pool, yet separate. The water is added to the spa from the main pool via the spa/booster pump - which isn't automatic. At the moment I am testing both and running the filter for the spa for about 15 minutes each hour hoping that this is enough to mix the water/chlorine. Should I be doing anything different?
thanks
 
FC level of 31 is still way too high for CYA level of 80. Also, fifteen minutes isn't enough time to mix your water and chemicals. Starting and stopping every hour is going to burn out your pump motor prematurely. Most people run the pump just once per day. Do a search for pump run times.


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