Sta-Rite Pump Seals -- EDIT: Assumptions Are Bad

[COBrien]

Apologies in advance for the long post...

Folks, I'm about to have a Class III come-apart...

I'm running a who-knows-how-old Sta-Rite pump. Model number is P4RA5F-125L (as best I can decipher...). More on this later. (EDIT: I deciphered wrong and assumed I knew what I was talking about...)

My 4-year-old 1-1/2 HP pump motor locked up on me last Friday. I ordered a new motor, and also ordered up a new impeller and diffuser, as the old parts were cracked and, I figured, would grenade upon startup of this new motor.

Once I got the pump apart, I realized that all the o-rings were in deplorable condition. So I ordered up a seal kit for a P4E/P4EA pump. What difference does that one letter make, right?

Ha!

Not a single o-ring or seal in that kit will work on my pump. The shaft seals are too big (O.D.), and won't fit the holes they're supposed to go in. The diffuser o-ring is too big (I.D. and O.D.), so it won't sit in the groove for which it's intended.

Searching the 'net for o-rings and seals by pump model reveals that just about everyone lumps the P4E/P4EA/P4R/P4RA pumps together. My seal kit was for a P4E/P4EA, so if it'll fit those pumps, IT WON'T FIT MINE. (EDIT: Because that's not the right model number...)

The other online retailers I've found don't have pictures and/or descriptions of parts. Just part numbers and prices. Yeah. Not helpful.

Further, it seems the pump model I have doesn't even exist. I've found P4RA5F-187L and lots of P4RA6xxx models, but nothing like what my data plate shows.

Does anyone have one of these pumps? Anyone know of a knowledgeable place I can call to find these seals?

I'm really trying not to shell out $500+ for an entirely new pump -- as this one works great (motors are junk...) -- but I'm quickly running out of options. I've been using my TigerShark to circulate water each night when I add my 10% chlorine, and after 7 nights the novelty of it and amazement at the TFP process's ability to keep this pool from becoming a swamp has worn off. Completely.

Thanks in advance for ANY help, advice, words of wisdom, commiseration, etc.

 

[mknauss]

Re: Sta-Rite Pump Seals -- On the Verge of Nervous Breakdown

Did you use InyoPools? Good track record of being knowledgeable about older equipment. And a supporter of TFP.

Take care.

 

[kadavis]

Re: Sta-Rite Pump Seals -- On the Verge of Nervous Breakdown

Does the seal plate have a copper insert in it? Pre 1998 had a insert so the seal would be different. After 98' they changed the seal plate and seal. They also sell a seal plate kit C203-193P for that pump that includes seal and o-ring

 

[COBrien]

Re: Sta-Rite Pump Seals -- On the Verge of Nervous Breakdown

Did you use InyoPools? Good track record of being knowledgeable about older equipment. And a supporter of TFP.

Take care.

I've browsed their website, but what they appear to list is the same as all others. The complete seal kit they offer is the same thing I purchased from Amazon.

I tried calling today, but they're only open Monday through Friday. I'll try Monday and see what we can figure out.

 

[COBrien]

Sta-Rite Pump Seals -- On the Verge of Nervous Breakdown

Does the seal plate have a copper insert in it? Pre 1998 had a insert so the seal would be different. After 98' they changed the seal plate and seal. They also sell a seal plate kit C203-193P for that pump that includes seal and o-ring

If you're referring to the copper part that is held onto the seal plate by two (2) screws, no. This pump is apparently newer than 1998. It's a really simple design -- seal plate, impeller (no separate nut required), diffuser, pump body (in order of installation).

There is a copper insert pressed into the backside (i.e., impeller side) of the diffuser, which I believe serves a similar purpose as a crankshaft bearing in an automotive engine. The original one was toast, and had scored the nose of the impeller quite badly. That, with the cracks in the impeller and diffuser, led me to replace those parts as well.

I think I can make the original seal plate o-ring work, and the o-ring in the kit I already have may work (didn't try it in the groove, as I'd already discovered the other o-Rings weren't a match and had hoped to return the whole set) but I'm definitely in need of:

1. A water slinger (I think... there's a rubber washer on the shaft of the new motor, but I'm not sure that's a proper water slinger);

2. Shaft seal(s); and

3. Diffuser o-ring.

I might even be able to make my existing shaft seal set work, as those parts aren't in terrible shape... I'd just prefer to go with all-new seals for peace of mind. "While I've got it apart," you know.

 

[kadavis]

Re: Sta-Rite Pump Seals -- On the Verge of Nervous Breakdown

Well if this is the Sta-Rite Max-E Glas II then you should use the PS 201 shaft seal or the PS 3868 Viton seal. The Diffuser o ring should be the same U9-374, and Seal plate is U9228A. The water slinger, Pentair Slinger, Water (17351-0009) - INYOPools.com

 

[COBrien]

Re: Sta-Rite Pump Seals -- On the Verge of Nervous Breakdown

The more I think I've got this figured out, the more I confuse myself.

Here are the parts I have:

Diffuser: C1-200PA
Impeller: C105-137PEB

And here is the seal kit I ordered on Amazon (it's an Aladdin kit, for whatever it's worth):

The APCO2372 Diffuser O-Ring package also has the following numbers on it:

U9374
3327470
O-83

 

[COBrien]

Sta-Rite Pump Seals -- On the Verge of Nervous Breakdown

Okay, I think I've actually got this figured out. Maybe...

I Googled 'StaRite P4RA5F-125L' just now.

Google responded with, "Did you mean StaRite P2RA5F-125L?"

Lots of results for the P2RA.

I double-checked the data plate on my seal plate. The second digit is unreadable. Somehow I assumed it was a 4.

I checked INYO Pools's website for the Dura/Max-e Glas pumps (not the II series...), and the diffuser and impeller parts carry the same part number as what I pulled off my pump.

It seems I brought this all on myself by not Googling more thoroughly before making any purchases.

Ordering the GOKIT54 (1998-present) now. I will post results afterward.

 

[COBrien]

Re: Sta-Rite Pump Seals -- On the Verge of Nervous Breakdown

After a good conversation with someone at INYO Pools, I called Pentair to find out the date of manufacture of my pump. Pentair acquired Sta-Rite some time ago, but they advised my pump predates the acquisition. They sent me to the folks at Sta-Rite to "talk to one of the guys who's been there a long time" to see if they could help. As it turns out, they forwarded me to another division of Sta-Rite, but "Cowboy Steve" was extremely knowledgeable and helpful. He transferred me to Karl at Sta-Rite pool pumps, and Karl confirmed what Cowboy Steve had told me.

My pump was manufactured in December 1993. Which means it should have a copper heat sink on the seal plate behind the impeller. These are pressed in place. The fact that the copper heat sink is not there and that a newer-style shaft seal was in there (which will physically fit, but won't prevent water intrusion into the "dry area" of the pump/motor system) is probably the reason my last motor only lasted 5 years or so, when the original motor had lasted some 19 years.

Karl also mentioned there is a retrofit kit for the seal plate which will allow the use of 1998-present seals. As deep as I am in this project already, I'd just as soon get the right parts and get it back together.

So, in addition to the GOKIT54 (1998-present) I ordered from INYO Pools, I also ordered up a new copper heat sink and the appropriate shaft seal set on Amazon (sorry, but I have a Prime account, and free 2-day shipping is a huge benefit).

Here's hoping that, between the later-style shaft seal kit in the GOKIT and the parts I ordered from Amazon, I'll be able to get this beast back together and running better than ever.

 

[COBrien]

Just to keep this thread updated...

My copper heat sink and shaft seal set arrived today. As per the recommendation of Karl at StaRite, I checked the fit of the heat sink to the seal plate. It did not press in by hand -- it's a good, tight interference fit.

A 7/8" socket fit into the shoulder of the heat sink quite well. A 3" extension on the socket made life easier. With a bit of light tapping with a hammer (rotating the seal plate about 90 degrees between taps), and she seated just right. I don't think it's going anywhere, so I didn't feel the need for any RTV or silicone between the base of the cone and the seal plate.

One question, though: Should the heat sink be up against the seal plate over its entire outside surface? Because this is what I ended up with:



After convincing myself that this was appropriate (though I may be wrong...), I set to work on the ceramic seal. Following the instructions included with the seal, I applied some soapy water to the o-ring and carefully pressed it in place.



Like a glove!

I mated the seal plate to the new motor, being careful not to bump the shaft with the ceramic seal (and placing the blue rubber shipping cap over the shaft threads), then applied more soapy water to the I.D. of the shaft seal (the assembly with the spring in the middle of it), and gently slid it over the shaft until it bottomed out on the ceramic seal.



I then threaded on the impeller, getting it hand tight after removing the start capacitor and barely being able to get a wrench to the flats on the back end of the shaft.

Sorry, no pic here. Lol!

I also went ahead and installed my new diffuser on the seal plate and gave the motor a few spins by hand to check for any misalignment or interference between the impeller and diffuser. None. Looking like we're good to go.

Now I just have to (im)patiently wait for the man in brown to bring my GO KIT (which has the wrong shaft seals, because, well, you've seen how I was operating in the beginning of this fiasco...), and I can get the pump back together.

Hopefully with enough time to filter all the junk out of my water before the wife's work get-together on Saturday.

The water is clear (I.e., not green), but is beginning to cloud up ever so slightly. I've been adding 1 gallon of 10% each evening after starting the TigerShark in an attempt to compensate for having no circulation for 12 days. My pool usually requires 64-80 oz. of 10% daily, and FC/CC tests every 2 days show FC in the expected range, and CC no greater than 0.5.

 

[COBrien]

Once again, keeping this thread updated for posterity...

I spoke with a gentleman at StaRite in Wisconsin (not Karl, but another very knowledgeable guy who commended me on keeping a 24-year-old pump running), and he confirmed that the copper heat shield / heat sink cone is designed to fit exactly the way it's shown in my pics.

My Go Kit came in yesterday, along with my motor base pad (the little hard rubber strip that supports the motor, which has never been on this pump since I've owned it...) and SkimPro skimmer baskets. It was like Christmas at my house last night!

I got the pump all back together and fired 'er up at about 11:00 last night. Not a single problem.

I did notice my filter pressure is higher now than it was with the old motor. Where my clean pressure was about 12 psi, it's now 16 psi. I backwashed the filter last night just to be sure. This makes sense, as the motor was not running at 100%, and the compromised diffuser o-ring sure wasn't helping in the efficiency department.

Within an hour, the water was noticeably clearer. It's amazing what filtration will do!

Thanks again to all for your input and advice!