Spa Level Dropping - Where to Install Check Valves?

[amelia.smith]

Hello,

New pool owner here and would appreciate your insight into this. We have a raised spa which attaches to the pool. The water level in our spa sinks to the level of the pool when the pump isn't running. Based on what I've read, we should have a check valve installed on the Spa Return line. Would also installing a check valve on the Spa Suction side help with anything? Please see picture! Thank you....

 

[ajw22]

Thanks for labeling your pipes.

Does your spa have a spillover to the pool?

Does the spillover always run when the pump is on?

What valves move when you turn your SPA on?

It looks like you have a motorized Jandy valve on the SPA RETURN and you do not have a motorized valve on the SPA SUCTION. In the pic both the SPA RETURN valve and the SPA SUCTION valves are closed. If they are closed they should not leak water and a check valve would not help you. You might want to check the diverter in the SPA valves and see that they are sealing closed.

 

[jblizzle]

Welcome to TFP!!!

Hard to see, but is that little pipe hiding behind the SPA return line just a supply to the booster pump?

Do you typically see water spilling over from the spa into the pool while in "pool mode"?

I do not see any "spa make up" line so, the only place where a check valve might be helpful is on the spa return line ... although the return 3-way is fully closed should not really be allowing water back through it either.

 

[amelia.smith]

Hi Allen, thanks for your advice!

Are you suggesting not to install any check valves in the system? You first suggest checking the mechanisms inside both the SPA SUCTION and SPA RETURN valves that are circled in the picture below? Hopefully, it is easy to check that both of the diverters are working properly.



Our spa does have a spillover to the pool.

When the pump is on, there seems to be some continuous minor and probably inadvertent spillover from the spa to the pool. The spillover that occurs when the pump is on is a lot less powerful compared to when we turn the spa on.

The same picture I included above shows the position of the valves the moment we turn on the spa (SPA SUCTION valve is closed and SPA RETURN valve is open). We have to manually turn the SPA SUCTION valve 180 degrees when we only want to heat the spa water since the valve is not motorized for now (SPA SUCTION and SPA RETURN valves will both be open).

Thanks for labeling your pipes.

Does your spa have a spillover to the pool?

Does the spillover always run when the pump is on?

What valves move when you turn your SPA on?

It looks like you have a motorized Jandy valve on the SPA RETURN and you do not have a motorized valve on the SPA SUCTION. In the pic both the SPA RETURN valve and the SPA SUCTION valves are closed. If they are closed they should not leak water and a check valve would not help you. You might want to check the diverter in the SPA valves and see that they are sealing closed.

 

[JamesW]

You can put a check valve on the spa return.

The suction looks like the valve actuator was recently removed. You can see the missing screws.

You can get a new actuator if you want. It's easy to install. The screws should be around somewhere.

There should be a check valve on the spa return already. Maybe it was removed.

What's going on where the line goes into the ground.

 

[amelia.smith]

Thanks for your very warm welcome, Jason!

Below should be a better view of the little pipe hiding behind the SPA RETURN line. Maybe it leads to the air blower?


While the pool is in "pool mode," we do see water spilling over from the spa into the pool. It is a very small stream and barely noticeable compared to when "spa mode" is on.

Would it be easier or more cost efficient to check the 3-way valves on the SPA SUCTION and SPA RETURN lines first or install a check valve on the SPA RETURN line first?

So you would suggest only installing a check valve on the SPA SUCTION line if we had a "spa make up" line? Would taking a better picture help determine if we have a "spa make up line?"

Welcome to TFP!!!

Hard to see, but is that little pipe hiding behind the SPA return line just a supply to the booster pump?

Do you typically see water spilling over from the spa into the pool while in "pool mode"?

I do not see any "spa make up" line so, the only place where a check valve might be helpful is on the spa return line ... although the return 3-way is fully closed should not really be allowing water back through it either.

 

[jblizzle]

If the spa return line 3-way valves is 100% closed when in pool mode, you should not get any spillover from the spa to the pool (because I do not see a bypass to send water from the pool return line to the spa ... a "make-up" line). But, if in pool mode the actuated 3-way valve does not fully close the spa line, so that you get some overflow, then that is the way that the spa is draining when the pump is off and adding a check valve on the spa return line should stop it.

 

[ajw22]

When the pump is on, there seems to be some continuous minor and probably inadvertent spillover from the spa to the pool. The spillover that occurs when the pump is on is a lot less powerful compared to when we turn the spa on.

If you do not intend there to be spillover when the pump is running then it means that valve is not sealing completely closed. I would fix the valve before you install a check valve.

Some people leave the SPA return slightly open when the pool is running to give a constant flow to the SPA and spillover to keep the SPA water from getting stagnant. It also ensures the spa water maintains the same chemicals balance as the pool. If you do want to keep the SPA return slightly open then you need a check valve.

You can add a motor to your SPA suction valve for under $200.

 

[amelia.smith]

We just purchased the house so the previous owner probably didn't want to replace the broken actuator. So many lovely surprises when purchasing a home! We will look into replacing the actuator since it sounds pretty easy to install.

Do you think it would be easier or more cost efficient to check the 3-way valves on the SPA SUCTION and SPA RETURN lines first or install a check valve on the SPA RETURN line first?

Is this what you were wondering about in the picture below - what's going on with the SPA RETURN line where it goes into the ground? Anyone have an idea?

Thanks James!

You can put a check valve on the spa return.

The suction looks like the valve actuator was recently removed. You can see the missing screws.

You can get a new actuator if you want. It's easy to install. The screws should be around somewhere.

There should be a check valve on the spa return already. Maybe it was removed.

What's going on where the line goes into the ground.

 

[JamesW]

I suspect that there might be a check valve right where the spa return goes into the ground.

Can you dig around the ground a little bit to see what's there?

 

[ajw22]

Do you think it would be easier or more cost efficient to check the 3-way valves on the SPA SUCTION and SPA RETURN lines first or install a check valve on the SPA RETURN line first?

Checking the 3 way valves takes the removal of a few screws. A new diverter costs less than $20.

Is this what you were wondering about in the picture below - what's going on with the SPA RETURN line where it goes into the ground? Anyone have an idea?

The paper and the watermark block seeing the pipe junction clearly.

 

[JamesW]

The check valve in this post is probably the type that you have.

Pool Plumbing Orlando | Check Valve Replacement

 

[amelia.smith]

The check valve in this post is probably the type that you have.

Pool Plumbing Orlando | Check Valve Replacement

James, that looks exactly like ours - the mystery has finally been solved! See our picture...guess we will need somebody to replace it as it seems pretty involved. Sounds like Jandy check valves are popular. Would you recommend replacing the old check valve with a Jandy or do you recommend something else?

 

[amelia.smith]

Thanks Allen! Doesn't look too bad so I think we will attempt to replace it ourselves.

During the summer, we had to refill the pool every 1-2 days. We could not run the pool pump for a few days while we replaced the house electrical panel. During those few days, the water level in the pool seemed to stay full. We didn't have to refill the pool during that time and suspect the water from our elevated spa back-flowed to the pool. The lowest level that the spa water dropped to is right below the jets.

If we fix both the 3 way valves and our check valve, do you think this would solve our leak or you think there is a leak somewhere else in the pool or spa?

Checking the 3 way valves takes the removal of a few screws. A new diverter costs less than $20.

View attachment 88167

View attachment 88168



The paper and the watermark block seeing the pipe junction clearly.

 

[JamesW]

I suspect that the flapper probably broke off of the old check valve. Hopefully, it's in the valve and not stuck in the plumbing.

I would cut out the bad valve and install a Jandy valve on the horizontal line instead of the vertical line.

You can install a check valve pointing down, but it's not good design. Check valves work best when installed horizontally or vertically pointing up so that gravity is closing the valve flapper instead of trying to open it.

When the spa backflows into the pool, the pool might be getting too full and losing water at the skimmer or somewhere else.

Once you get the check valve in, carefully check the water level to see if it stays good.

 

[amelia.smith]

Ok thanks for the pointers. Do you know if a pressure relief valve is the same as a check valve? The valve on our spa return line looks a lot like the picture below.

I suspect that the flapper probably broke off of the old check valve. Hopefully, it's in the valve and not stuck in the plumbing.

I would cut out the bad valve and install a Jandy valve on the horizontal line instead of the vertical line.

You can install a check valve pointing down, but it's not good design. Check valves work best when installed horizontally or vertically pointing up so that gravity is closing the valve flapper instead of trying to open it.

When the spa backflows into the pool, the pool might be getting too full and losing water at the skimmer or somewhere else.

Once you get the check valve in, carefully check the water level to see if it stays good.

 

[JamesW]

That's a type of check valve with a strong 30 lb. spring. It's put in parallel with the caretaker to bypass flow at a certain pressure (30 psi).

That same style of check valve comes in different spring strengths.

In any case, that's not a good check valve for your application.

 

[amelia.smith]

Ok so sounds like it is definitely a check valve on our spa return line. Does the following plan of action sound the most time and cost efficient?

1. Replace diverters in 3 way valves on SPA SUCTION and SPA RETURN lines.
2. If spa water level is still dropping or there is still a leak, cut out old check valve and install Jandy check valve on SPA RETURN line only (preferably on a horizontal line like picture below).

That's a type of check valve with a strong 30 lb. spring. It's put in parallel with the caretaker to bypass flow at a certain pressure (30 psi).

That same style of check valve comes in different spring strengths.

In any case, that's not a good check valve for your application.

 

[JamesW]

I would remove the old check valve and install a new one.

 

[ajw22]

If the flapper on your existing check valve has broken or stuck you want to remove it before it causes more problems.