Solar Pool Heater - cons?

Feb 4, 2009
16
I’ve got a company coming out to give me a bid on installing a solar pool heater with panels on the roof. I’ve ready gotten bids on installing a gas heater so I know the basic cost range for those. In general I’m looking to extend the pool season and enjoy my pool more (lots of shade over the pool today).

What are the reasons to not go the solar route? I’ve searched most of the threads and haven’t seen any consistent cons or things to be worried about.

Thanks,

Jeff
 
I am in process of installing solar too only down side I cold think of was...
1.) A bad install causing roof problems. This can be mitigated by being an informed consumer, choosing a reputable installer and/or pulling permits if required.
2.) Making a poor decision and installing solar on a roof that is near the end of it's useful life. If you have a 20 year comp roof that is 15 years old you don't want to sink a bunch of money in an install that is going to have to come off in a few years.
3.) I am hesitant to call this a con but some would say they are ugly
 
IMHO There really is no cons for solar heater install. Just make sure it faces the right orientation. It was a no brainier for us as we love a warm pool and the installer had a great warranty. Look at the sig bar for our solar build:cheers: Hope this helps:cheers:
 
Living in FL with a small pool I'm with Brent, I absolutely love the solar and I'm able to use my pool just about all year round... but since you're in NC with a pretty large pool I'm not sure you'll get the the same benefit that we have down here. If you get somewhere around 600+ SQ ft and have a lot of southern sun on your roof maybe it will raise the temp about 5 a day, but if you don't cover it you will loose most of that at night. Even down here the solar doesn't do enough from October to April and I have to use a cover to get the temp where I like it.

So if you combine it with a cover then you'll certainly get something (the cover might give you more than the solar depending on the size of the system and your exposure to strong sun). Possibly others with large pools in your climate area might have more feedback...
 
As Tim has eluded to solar heating is all about square footage of panels. The more you have the more heat you will get. Good sun exposure is obviously also very important.

The main drawback to me about solar is cost of install and the asthetics of the install. If you can deal with the asthetics then the cost is a moot point after 2 or 3 seasons. It's costs nothing extra to run solar panels. Gas heaters cost hundreds per month.

Solar is also slow but steady heat. When used with a cover you pool should always stay warm but it won't heat up quickly.

One thing to always consider is that you can always add a second heater to the pool in the future if I you ever want one. No pool heater is perfect but I think combing solar heat with any other pool heater makes for a near perfect experience.

Love my solar panels if I had to do it again I would have installed them first.
 
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I am hesitant to call this a con but some would say they are ugly

Wha!?! Solar pride, baby!!

Great points already made. Though depending on the brand of solar, the "old roof" issue could be less of one than you might think. My system (Heliocol) has a very simple installation system that would come right off an old roof and go right back up. It's all modular and practically snaps together, so taking it apart would not be bad at all. The majority of the labor for my setup was in the plumbing (underground, at the pad, etc) which wouldn't get redone with a re-roof.

Only con I can come up with is about roof real estate. "Spending" your roof on pool solar might be an issue down the road if you later want to put up PV solar (whole house electric solar system) and don't have enough room for both. I ended up putting my solar on the north side (a solar no-no) because I wanted to save my "prime" roof for my PV solar. I lost a few weeks of extra swim season, probably, but they were in months when I'm not particularly interested in swimming anyway. So the trade off made sense for me. During the summer, the sun is pretty much directly overhead, so same-same. My solar system provider assured me that pool solar is not as fussy about direction and angles as PV solar. I think that is true.

It's April and I'm just now getting the pool warm enough. Solar definitely adds at least five degrees. In the summer, I can crank it to 90. I don't use a cover, I could do a lot better with one, but just don't want to deal with it.

I would think a heater would be stand-alone (mine is) and relatively easy to connect up to an existing filter system. In addition to the panels and mounting system, solar needs a controller, a three way valve, an actuator, a check valve, some temp sensors, drain valves, vacuum breaker and in some cases a lot of plumbing, running up the side of your house and across the roof. I guess that's a con.

I can think of a lot more pros than cons though...
 
Solar is awesome. The cost to install gas lines, electrical, etc., plus the high cost of running it. I have a pool with a spa, and I really only use the gas heater for the spa. The sun will do its job. It's still pretty cool up here in the Sierra foothills, and my pool is sitting at 64. One good week of warm, sunny weather and it will go up 10-15 degrees or more. Size the system properly for your pool size and exposure, and you'll get the bang for the buck. It will extend your season significantly. In the middle of summer, the solar won't turn on very much because the pool will have already reached its set temperature.
 
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Solar is awesome. The cost to install gas lines, electrical, etc., plus the high cost of running it. I have a pool with a spa, and I really only use the gas heater for the spa. The sun will do its job. It's still pretty cool up here in the Sierra foothills, and my pool is sitting at 64. One good week of warm, sunny weather and it will go up 10-15 degrees or more. Size the system properly for your pool size and exposure, and you'll get the bang for the buck. It will extend your season significantly. In the middle of summer, the solar won't turn on very much because the pool will have already reached its set temperature.
What brand solar system and what installer did you go with?
 
In my last house we did a DIY kit from Pool Supply World. Total cost was about $1500, including all new valves, SunTouch controller, actuators, pipes, fittings, etc. I got quotes from several places in the Sacramento area, ranging from around $4000-$6000 (which would not have included all the new valves, etc-- we completely replumbed the pad and did a bunch of other related work at the same time). Just running a gas line at the old house was quoted around $3000. Every solar company claims their product is the best. With the current house, I really have no idea as they were installed with the pool build many years before we bought the house. I really can't even get up to that part of the roof to look at them very easily.

Good luck. Let us know what you end up going with.
 
In my last house we did a DIY kit from Pool Supply World. Total cost was about $1500, including all new valves, SunTouch controller, actuators, pipes, fittings, etc. I got quotes from several places in the Sacramento area, ranging from around $4000-$6000 (which would not have included all the new valves, etc-- we completely replumbed the pad and did a bunch of other related work at the same time). Just running a gas line at the old house was quoted around $3000. Every solar company claims their product is the best. With the current house, I really have no idea as they were installed with the pool build many years before we bought the house. I really can't even get up to that part of the roof to look at them very easily.

Good luck. Let us know what you end up going with.
Thanks for the reply. I'm tempted to try to the Power strip system since I have a concrete tile roof with no sheeting...image_4962.jpg
 

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I had a solar system installed a few years back. My wife and I both felt it was probably the best home improvement project we have ever done.

Before solar, even in the summer, the pool would rarely get much above 80-82F-- with the solar we could choose exactly what we wanted, which was about 86-87F, and it was glorious. In northern florida, we could keep the pool above 80 for about 10 months of the year, as long as we used the cover in the cooler months.

The downsides: Having seen how the panels were mounted to the roof, it seemed to me like this might shorten the life span of the roof somewhat-- lots of things were drilled through the roof, and all had sealant on them, and none of them leaked while we owned it, but if your roof is supposed to last 30+ years, what do you think lasts longer, a roof with a bunch of screws drilled through it or one without a bunch of screws drilled through it? Reality is though, this probably doesn't matter-- who knows if they'll be living in the same house by the time the roof needs to be replaced? Also, if you assign some sort of value to the free heat energy you put in the pool, then what you're saving there probably makes up for the shortened roof lifespan.

Second downside, we had a VS pump. When the solar system kicked on the pump had to speed up to push the water up onto the roof and through the panels, and when the system kicked off, the pump slowed down because it didn't need to do as much work. When we installed the solar system we were using a suction side cleaner, and it appears you are currently using one. It can be a bit tricky to get the pump running at such a speed that the suction side cleaner is receiving the right amount of suction during both the slow and fast pump settings. Ultimately I went to a robot cleaner to avoid these problems.

If you have a VS pump with SVRS, also it can also be a bit tricky to have the solar kick on and off without tripping the SVRS system. I hope to never own a pump with an SVRS system again.

We had a few maintenance issues with our system in the 3-4 years that we owned it-- once the electronic valve actuator broke, but it was under warranty and fixed for free. When we sold the house the inspector noticed that one of the black PVC pipes on the roof had collapsed due to the heat it was exposed to. I think it cost us about $150 for repair. The company we had do the installation was very good about it.
 
The downsides: Having seen how the panels were mounted to the roof, it seemed to me like this might shorten the life span of the roof somewhat...

It can be a bit tricky to get the pump running at such a speed that the suction side cleaner is receiving the right amount of suction during both the slow and fast pump settings. Ultimately I went to a robot cleaner to avoid these problems.

Not to be contrary, but I'll rebut...

A roof without a solar system on it, without a bunch of extra holes, might be more sound, but I think the risk of having panels up there is very minimal, if any. Before I'd seen changeyez's crazy roof, I would have said that it's really the paper that keeps a roof water tight, and the roofing material primarily keeps the sun off the paper to keep it from deteriorating. That's why old wood shingle roofs could last, and work, even after they shrunk and split. At least until the sun got to the paper underneath. Even an open hole in a roof will leak to the paper and that drip will make its way to the gutter. My system is held to the concrete tiles with screws, embedded in roof caulking. And then covered with roof caulking. That's pretty water tight, even if the caulking dried out. Just the screws by themselves are virtually watertight. And even if the water got through all that, it'd just drip on the paper and run to the gutter. The screws are only in the tiles, not through to the sheathing. The solar companies will tell you that the solar system protects the roof, by way of its shade, and the fact that it is drawing heat away from the roofing material. It'll also keep your attic cooler. I think there is something to this, and I wouldn't be surprised if a panel system could actually extend the life of your roof (that one section of your roof, anyway). I wonder if there are any stat's on this, to prove one way or the other.

I solved the pump/vacuum issue by scheduling "cleaner time" separately from "solar time." They don't ever run at the same time. I am able to perfectly optimize the flow for each that way. Since I want my vac to run during the middle of the night, for safety reasons, this was a non-issue for my system.
 
Interesting stuff about the roof. I didn't know all of that about the paper being the key.

I had an asphalt shingle roof, and the screws went through the shingles, through the paper, and through the underlying wood and entered into the space of the attic. I never had leaks, but there were many leak horror stories out there. Also with high winds there are stories of folks sustaining roof damage from wind creating lift under the panels and ripping the screws and mounting out of the roof. With heliocol panels this isn't as much of a concern because of the space between the tubes, but not all panels are made that way.

Our panels (Solar Industries) were more like a mat, and it seemed that they might be to create lift under the right conditions, which could seemingly be offset with a proper installation. The upside of this type of panel was better heating performance on Category B and C days, when compared to a heliocol panel.

So between the screws going all the way through the shingles, paper, and wood, and the stress load of wind on the panels, over the years, seemed reasonable to me to think this might be a little bit more work for a roof than simply sitting there with no screws and no additional wind stress, maybe not though.

Like I said, I think pool solar was the best home improvement we ever did, but almost everything has pros and cons.

As for the pump/vacuum issue, you want your vacuum and pump to run at night for safety, but with solar don't you now have to run the pump during the most of the daylight hours too, for you that would seem to be a "con", no? And you're running the pump at flow rates enough to power your vacuum, and in the day enough to optimize the solar, so what kind of flow rates do you use for that? I'm not trying to be nasty, and I can understand if it sounds like I am-- I'm a bit awkward socially, but I really like to know things like flow rates-- I wish I had gotten an intelliflo pump back then. I bought a FlowVis, but never got around to getting it installed.

I am curious about this too, do you run the pump for all daylight hours, or do you somehow get the pump to turn on when the sun is out? My system had a temperature sensor on the roof, and a temperature sensor in the pipes to check the pool water temp, if roof temp was sufficiently greater than water temp, then a valve actuator would open a valve to the panels and heat the pool until the desired water temp was achieved. Because I didn't always know when it would be sunny, I ran the pump for most of the daylight hours (on a few hours after sunrise, and off 1-1.5 hours before sunset)-- the temperature sensors wouldn't turn the pump on, just the valve, the pump had to already be running. Would be kinda cool to be able to run the pump more optimally timed to when its actually needed.
 
Inline...

Interesting stuff about the roof. I didn't know all of that about the paper being the key.

I had an asphalt shingle roof, and the screws went through the shingles, through the paper, and through the underlying wood and entered into the space of the attic. I never had leaks, but there were many leak horror stories out there.

I would be less comfortable with mounting hardware penetrating paper and sheathing, for sure. Though that's all designed for that. Think about it, asphalt shingles are stapled or nailed on, right thought the shingle, the paper and the wood. The shingles and paper both "heal" around the shaft of the fastener, and make it water tight. Same would happen with other types of fasteners.


Also with high winds there are stories of folks sustaining roof damage from wind creating lift under the panels and ripping the screws and mounting out of the roof. With heliocol panels this isn't as much of a concern because of the space between the tubes, but not all panels are made that way.

Absolutely. I'm still sweating that out a bit, because I didn't penetrate the sheathing or framing, and we get some good winds. But I installed mine as the solar company installs them, and they coached me. So I'm rolling the dice my panels will meet the stress. The Heliocol's have tubes, but also a unique bracket system that together address their wind bearing capabilities.


Our panels (Solar Industries) were more like a mat, and it seemed that they might be to create lift under the right conditions, which could seemingly be offset with a proper installation. The upside of this type of panel was better heating performance on Category B and C days, when compared to a heliocol panel.

I didn't like that mat design for the wind reason. I didn't research about the performance as much as I should have. I know that Heliocols are up there, but I wouldn't be surprised to learn there are better brands. And keep in mind, a lot of what I (we?) know about all this is based in no small part on the hype and marketing of the installers and the manufacturers. So who knows?! I think there is independent data for this, but that could be subject to interpretation, too.


So between the screws going all the way through the shingles, paper, and wood, and the stress load of wind on the panels, over the years, seemed reasonable to me to think this might be a little bit more work for a roof than simply sitting there with no screws and no additional wind stress, maybe not though.

That's logical, I wouldn't argue that. But my panels are attached to the tiles, and unless there's enough lift, the tiles just absorb the movement. Mine are not actually attached to the roof, they're just sort of stacked on each other, so my roof doesn't get all that stress. Additionally, I learned from my PV installer (heavier, more wind-prone panels), that a typical roof is over built to accommodate such things, and the additional stress and weight of solar panels still spec well under the roof's capabilities. This is assuming you have a roof that was built to such a spec. I know mine was, YMMV. That is also assuming that that wasn't more installer hype!!


Like I said, I think pool solar was the best home improvement we ever did, but almost everything has pros and cons.

As for the pump/vacuum issue, you want your vacuum and pump to run at night for safety, but with solar don't you now have to run the pump during the most of the daylight hours too, for you that would seem to be a "con", no?

Yes and no. Running solar "costs" flow, sure. And solar impacts flow in a different way than a NG heater, but only because heaters are normally plumbed to be inline all the time. I was taught here that my NG heater impacts flow by up to 30%. That's a lot! If I plumbed my setup to bypass my NG heater like I do my solar, then it'd have the same impact on the vac issue that my solar does. See? So technically that's a con for an NG heater, which is sucking flow 24/7, whether it's heating or not. My solar only does so when it's heating, because it gets bypassed when not in use. The vac issue is not germane. It mucks things up equally, solar or NG, if NG was being bypassed as solar is. This is about solar cons compared to NG (the OPs original question).

And you're running the pump at flow rates enough to power your vacuum, and in the day enough to optimize the solar, so what kind of flow rates do you use for that? I'm not trying to be nasty, and I can understand if it sounds like I am-- I'm a bit awkward socially, but I really like to know things like flow rates-- I wish I had gotten an intelliflo pump back then. I bought a FlowVis, but never got around to getting it installed.

Hey, were just chattin' and exploring ideas for the OP to consider. No worries. The flow rates used would be unique to each pool. I optimized mine with the FlowVis, based on manufacturers' requirement for each device. It's 40GPM for the solar, the vac is less, but I don't have the flow rate for that in front of me. For my setup, it's 2200RPM for the solar and 1900RPM for the VAC. I was once told (by my numbskull of a pool guy) that my NG heater would also require a good flow, pretty much the same as my solar. So if that's true, and I suspect it is as the heat exchange principles should be similar, there's no con there for the solar. (Sorry, too lazy to look up what my NG heater actually needs for flow, because I never use it.) They don't heat the same (BTU output), nor do they cost the same ($ per BTU). I just know my solar "costs" me what it would cost me for six 100W light bulbs, to raise my pool temp about 10° a day. I'm gonna say that's a tad less than what NG costs! So no con! ;)


I am curious about this too, do you run the pump for all daylight hours, or do you somehow get the pump to turn on when the sun is out? My system had a temperature sensor on the roof, and a temperature sensor in the pipes to check the pool water temp, if roof temp was sufficiently greater than water temp, then a valve actuator would open a valve to the panels and heat the pool until the desired water temp was achieved. Because I didn't always know when it would be sunny, I ran the pump for most of the daylight hours (on a few hours after sunrise, and off 1-1.5 hours before sunset)-- the temperature sensors wouldn't turn the pump on, just the valve, the pump had to already be running. Would be kinda cool to be able to run the pump more optimally timed to when its actually needed.

My runtime hours are flexible. I run solar around six hours a day. More if my daughter wants to swim, off if I know I won't be in the pool. My automation handles all that easily and I can control that on the fly, manually, or automatically from various devices (phone, computer, indoor panel, etc). Just like your system, mine knows when the panels are warm enough to heat my pool and when they're not. What might be different: my system ramps up the pump and engages the panels accordingly, until my target temp is reached. They can work without the sun, but better with, of course. But when the panels are not needed, my pump slows down to whatever speed I want for normal filtering. And I can program during what hours the solar can engage, so that's independent of when the filter mode is running. Is that answering your question? I think the automation and VS pump are solving for me what you were missing?

And just to throw another wrench in the works, I've added PV solar to my home, sized to accommodate my pool and its solar heater, so I actually have none of the concerns for energy efficiency I once did, or others might. I run my pool filter and vac and solar to optimize my experience (warm, clean, clear, etc) without regard for cost. Bragging, yes, but the point is: having PV solar in these times of ever-increasing electricity costs is a no brainer, IMO, and makes a lot of this nit-picking about energy efficiency somewhat (a lot) less of an issue. Both my solar systems will pay for themselves in short order, like five years or so, and then I'll be running and heating my pool for free. So that's a pro for solar, because there's not really a similar available solution for NG heating.
 
I don't really know a ton about roofing, you seem to know more than me about it. I thought part of the idea with shingles was that they overlap each other in a specific way to help protect the roof, and they nail or staple is under that overlap. When you screw solar through it you're putting a hole directly through the outside of the shingle in an area that is not overlapped by another shingle. I thought that was the difference.

The installers say that the roof is built sufficiently to handle the extra load, and what else would they say if they're actually going to do the install? But, we all know that roofs fail over time. The question for the industry is whether or not these systems speed up roof failure on average, and the question for the homeowner is will this system speed up that process in my particular roof. For me, after having the system installed and looking at the roof over time from inside and outside-- seemed like to me that on average this doesn't seem likely to increase roof lifespan. My guess is that there would be a decrease on average, but that it may be negligible or offset by the value of the heating gains-- possibly even offset by the value of the reduced cooling costs for the home.


I spent a good deal of time researching solar pool panel performance about 5 or 6 years ago for the install, and I think the data I got back then came from the University of Central Florida, but maybe I'm wrong about that. I tried to look at the data and make my own conclusions, but much like the pro/con aspect, there are usually at least 2 ways to interpret data.

What's interesting about performance is your report of getting a 10 degree temp rise in a day from your heliocol mats. The best I could really get was about 8 degree rise in a day, in FL-- and that was with a 400sf system on a 392sf pool, whereas you have a 400sf system on a 532sf pool, and only some of that rise could be attributed to the solar. Maybe I could have done better than 8 degrees in the summer, but I never really looked at it when it was already hot outside (category A days).

I didn't know about the impact of the NG heater on flow, which is good for me to learn about since I'll be buying a NG heater or heat pump in a few months (where I live now, solar is markedly less effective). Still, with the flow rates you report, seems like you'd only have to run your pump for about 5 hours a day to filter your pool. If you run the vac for a 3 hours at night, you'd really only have to run your pump for 2 hours in the day and you're doing 6 hours, so it certainly seems that you are running your pump more than you otherwise would to optimize your solar system.

I didn't have all of the automation that you have, and maybe if I had that tuned up better I could have optimized things better. The SVRS pump was a real problem with my solar install. It was very challenging to get the system to work right without tripping the SVRS system, once I got it to a setting that worked without tripping much, I was very reluctant to fiddle with anything.
 
Seems like we got a bit off topic.

I guess I kinda missed the idea was cons of solar compared to NG, I thought it was just cons for solar in general. But compared to NG, there are certainly some cons-- with solar you can't heat your pool much on a cloudy or rainy day, with NG no problem. With solar if you really want to extend your swim season you also NEED to cover the pool. And I mean NEED. In North Carolina you will get a lot more out of your solar system with a cover than without. With NG by and large it just comes down to what you're willing to pay in gas bills. The cover will save you a bunch of money, but if you don't mind paying the bills you can heat that pool up plenty without a cover and NG.

One of my friends in FL took his solar system off and installed a heat pump. He did this because he was unwilling to cover the pool, and his attitude was "when I want a hot pool, I want a hot pool". Solar doesn't really work that way, except maybe in the summer. Similarly this would be a disadvantage for solar vs NG-- if it's October 15, and friends are coming over and you really want that pool to be 84, with NG you can probably make that happen cover or not, with solar and a cover it may not happen.

I really liked my solar system in Florida. Now I'm in Nashville, TN; clearly not Nashville, NC. But it doesn't appear that the climate is all that much different between the two Nashvilles. I'm planning out a pool build, hopefully to start in June, and I don't have any intention of doing a solar system up front, just too many cloudy/rainy/chilly days here. I don't know if that's the right decision or not.

I'm trying to decide heat pump vs NG here. We will be covering our pool. Ideally we'd be able to use the pool year round, and I think gas, a pool dome, and a lot of money are the only things that will make that happen here. Maybe I'm wrong, maybe I could do a heat pump. Still chewing that over.

Why aren't you considering a heat pump? If you want to extend your season, but not use all year round, and you don't have a hot tub, wouldn't a heat pump be much more efficient and cost effective for that?
 
Inline...

I don't really know a ton about roofing, you seem to know more than me about it. I thought part of the idea with shingles was that they overlap each other in a specific way to help protect the roof, and they nail or staple is under that overlap. When you screw solar through it you're putting a hole directly through the outside of the shingle in an area that is not overlapped by another shingle. I thought that was the difference.

All true, the fastener not under another shingle could be less waterproof, addressed in part by the caulking (but caulking is never as good as proper runoff), and the healing principle would still apply. I suspect leaks are most likely caused by installer error, like using the wrong fastener, fastener at a weird angle, backing the fastener out, then back in again, things like that.

The installers say that the roof is built sufficiently to handle the extra load, and what else would they say if they're actually going to do the install? But, we all know that roofs fail over time. The question for the industry is whether or not these systems speed up roof failure on average, and the question for the homeowner is will this system speed up that process in my particular roof. For me, after having the system installed and looking at the roof over time from inside and outside-- seemed like to me that on average this doesn't seem likely to increase roof lifespan. My guess is that there would be a decrease on average, but that it may be negligible or offset by the value of the heating gains-- possibly even offset by the value of the reduced cooling costs for the home.

That's the meat of it. Does mounting anything on your roof compromise it to some degree, regardless of installation technique? Of course. Enough to matter within the lifespan of the roof? Not likely if installed correctly. (IMO)

I spent a good deal of time researching solar pool panel performance about 5 or 6 years ago for the install, and I think the data I got back then came from the University of Central Florida, but maybe I'm wrong about that. I tried to look at the data and make my own conclusions, but much like the pro/con aspect, there are usually at least 2 ways to interpret data.

What's interesting about performance is your report of getting a 10 degree temp rise in a day from your heliocol mats. The best I could really get was about 8 degree rise in a day, in FL-- and that was with a 400sf system on a 392sf pool, whereas you have a 400sf system on a 532sf pool, and only some of that rise could be attributed to the solar. Maybe I could have done better than 8 degrees in the summer, but I never really looked at it when it was already hot outside (category A days).

I probably get 8 this time of year, 10 in other months, 12 in some months. I don't track it too carefully because I get the heat I need most of the months I need it. (April and October are a bit of a disappointment, but I refuse to use a cover. The other off-season months I'm not that interested in swimming. I like a nice air temp, too.) Also, I was siting how much the temp goes up each day, not necessarily what the solar is adding on its own. I never really looked at that. My pool goes up a lot each day without solar. What color is your pool? Mine is pretty dark and that makes a difference (I think a pretty big difference). So it's very possible my system, on it's own, performs much less than yours. I wouldn't be surprised if my solar was only adding 5 degrees, though I suspect its more. I know on the hottest days, even 100+, my pool would never get warmer than about 85. With solar, I once had it up to 95 on a day that was not quite that hot. That's about all the "testing" I've done, and probably where I got "10° rise" from. Not at all conclusive or scientific. I just know my pool is much more comfortable during swim season than it was before solar, but, conversely, I did not get the extension of the swim season I was promised by the solar company. I get maybe an extra month, when I was promised two. But I mounted my panels on the north side, so that probably accounts for the discrepancy. South side mounting would have made a bigger difference in those two "low sun on the horizon" months, no doubt. But I needed the south side for PV.

I didn't know about the impact of the NG heater on flow, which is good for me to learn about since I'll be buying a NG heater or heat pump in a few months (where I live now, solar is markedly less effective). Still, with the flow rates you report, seems like you'd only have to run your pump for about 5 hours a day to filter your pool. If you run the vac for a 3 hours at night, you'd really only have to run your pump for 2 hours in the day and you're doing 6 hours, so it certainly seems that you are running your pump more than you otherwise would to optimize your solar system.

My vac cycle is 1.5 hours. Off season I add 3 hours of filtering in the afternoon, so 4.5 total. That seems to keep my pool clean. Swim season is still 1.5 hours vac, plus at least a six hour solar cycle. More if I want to swim later in the day or want to really crank it up. So that's plenty of summertime filtering. As I said, because of PV solar, I don't concern myself too much about it, so I'm not the guy to talk shop with about squeezing out every ounce of energy efficiency. It's a worthy quest, just not one I pursue any more. I don't ignore energy use, I still have to be conservative so I don't use more than my PV system was designed to produce, or else I pay PG&E at the end of the true-up cycle, but I don't have to be stingy about electricity any more, like I once was, because I added an extra panel or two just so I wouldn't have to be.

I didn't have all of the automation that you have, and maybe if I had that tuned up better I could have optimized things better. The SVRS pump was a real problem with my solar install. It was very challenging to get the system to work right without tripping the SVRS system, once I got it to a setting that worked without tripping much, I was very reluctant to fiddle with anything.

SVRS is something I'm looking at, to better protect my suction port hazard. Good to know about the solar issues with that. I'll have to study up.
 
You sure know a lot about roofs Dirk.

"What color is your pool?"

It was comparable to white plaster-- I think it was hydrazzo or something similar, it wasn't actually white plaster, but it was light colored and it resulted the appearance of clear light-blue water, similar to white plaster. That's a good point.

Hearing you say that April and October are disappointing, suggests you're talking 8-12 degrees May-Sept. I don't think I ever really looked at the temp rise in those months. I know I could easily get it above 90F in those months, without a cover, but I really don't like the pool to be much over 87-88 degrees, so I didn't spend much time analyzing it. My guess is I probably could get more than 8 on those days-- heat production on category A days (when air temp is higher than pool temp) is outrageously high.

For March, April, October, and November, getting 8F rise was usually the best I could do. The pool was covered except when in use for a lot of those days. I wish I knew how the pool temp fluctuated without the solar, but I didn't monitor it closely before having the solar, just knew it was too cold for me, and after the solar, well I wasn't going to turn the solar off to find out.

I definitely felt like I got what the solar company promised in terms of swim season-- with the cover and the solar, and no other heat source, the pool was above 80F for all but about 45-60 days in the coolest part of the year.

I'll acknowledge that I could have possibly done more to limit the problems I had with the SVRS system-- maybe more time adjusting ramp up/ramp down speeds would have helped, but IMO that thing was a total PITA. As far as I know there is no way to disable an SVRS system without doing something kinda "black ops" style to your pump. Some pool guys would tell me I could adjust the sensitivity of the system, but I couldn't figure out how to do that-- maybe I am to blame.

In the roughly 1000 days I had that pump, I never had a real suction hazard event, like my kids hand getting in there. My guess was that the SVRS system tripped probably 5000 times during those 1000 days. Some days not at all, some days it might trip 20-30 times. Sometimes it would trip the breaker for the electric to the pool equipment.

You might have better luck because it seems that your system may allow you to make adjustments more easily. My system was an intellipro VS SVRS with a Sun Touch controller, and it was incredibly cumbersome to make adjustments to things like ramp up speeds.
 

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