Skimmers and Return locations

[Hugman]

First timer here, and first-time pool builder haha. DIY. I am about to finalize my pool kit order and trying to decide on skimmer and return locations. The below dig sheet shows suggested locations which are pretty standard. I have looked through several other postings and really couldn't come to a conclusion. Some do skimmers on opposite corners which seems to make sense to me, but then where should the returns go?
I have looked all over and really can't seem to figure out what is best. Any suggestions would be appreciated!!!

Thanks, everyone! This website is amazing and has been so helpful.

"1085" = Skimmer /. "Inlet" would be the returns.
One inlet will be used for the pool cleaner. So 4 returns total. 16x40 - 8 deep end.
Note: there will actually be 6 foot to the right of the step, they just haven't adjusted the final yet.
.

 

[needsajet]

Welcome to TFP! Good to have you here

With 4 returns, they can probably have them almost anywhere as long as they're distributed around the pool (as you have them now). You'll be able to aim them using the eyeballs in the return jets, in order to get the circulation pattern you want. If it were mine, I'd probably aim the rightmost return at the steps to be sure of circulation there.

A couple of other things... Glad to see there are two skimmers. I'm guessing they're on the downwind side of the pool, which is good. If the wind direction varies a lot, you could spread those out to opposite corners. It's a good idea to plumb the skimmers separately all the way to the equipment pad, so you have control over the blend of flow between the two.

Also, you mentioned one "inlet" dedicated to a cleaner. Just a heads-up that pressure cleaners have pretty much fallen out of favor. If it were mine, I'd make that a vacuum port (shallow depth, a bit below the waterline tile or the depth of the bottom of the skimmer throat) with a dedicated line back to the equipment pad. Another option is to leave it out, and plan on using a robotic cleaner which doesn't rely on the pool's circulation system.

 

[Divin Dave]

I'll throw in my .02

Hi Hugman,
Welcome to TFP!

Like needs a jet mentions, Consider the direction of the predominant wind when deciding where to locate the skimmers.

I think the location of the returns are fine....
However......If it were me, I would add a couple of jets or returns in the steps.
I have a vinyl pool too with outset steps like yours, and leaves and dirt get in there and cannot get out. If I had a do over, I would add a couple of jets in the steps to help keep them clear of leaves and other floaties. I might even squeeze the size of them down to increase the velocity of the flow from them.

 

[Hugman]

Thanks needsajet and Divin Dave!

So the skimmers are set up for prevailing winds, my concern is at times obviously the wind direction changes but more so we tend to get a little swirl effect from the house and the wind tends to whip around it sometimes. Probably overthinking this a bit I'm sure.

Needsajet, the extra inlet is a suction line as you suggested, thanks for the input. I haven't decided on pool cleaner type so I wanted the option just in case. Seems everyone has a different opinion on pool cleaner types haha. Guessing unreasonable expectations lead to the majority of bad reviews.

Divin Dave, steps are vinyl over steel. I thought about putting a return in the step and swim out but the pool kit provider suggested they would end up leaking. Not sure why that would be the case, perhaps the fact that liners tend to be pulled on in these areas? So I guess i shied away from this but still trying to figure out how to get some circulation in there.

I'm leaning toward opposite corners skimmers, top left and bottom right, just not sure how to set up the returns in that situation to get the steps and swimouts along with the overall flow of the pool. It seems this size of a pool can get away with one skimmer, so figured it would be ok to put them in opposite corners.

Any extra suggestions on this setup?

Thanks again, the pool kit provider has not really given much input here. Seems they just go with, "this is the standard setup". No pros and cons provided.....

 

[needsajet]

Nah, not over-thinking. I wish I had two skimmers and my pool is much smaller. Building the pool really changed the breezes in our back yard, and we get the swirling as well. Now is the time, before everything is in and buried!

I'd just move the upper right inlet to lower right, kinda like swapping the inlet for the skimmer.

I agree with Dave regarding the steps and swimout, but I have no experience with that type of pool. If the returns can't be right in the alcove, then I'd have a return across from them and pointed toward them, so I know I can get water moving into the alcoves. The eyeballs in each return give you lots of latitude for creating a water circulation pattern that works, so I think you're in pretty good shape.

 

[Winnie-the-Pool]

Note: there will actually be 6 foot to the right of the step, they just haven't adjusted the final yet.
View attachment 85440.

Just curious, when you say there will be 6' to the right of the step, does that mean the shallow end will be larger or will that put the transition incline in front of the steps?

 

[Hugman]

Just curious, when you say there will be 6' to the right of the step, does that mean the shallow end will be larger or will that put the transition incline in front of the steps?

Well, technically I think it will end up to be 5', not 6'. I want the left side of step to line up with the slope break but the little adapters are 1' each. Not sure how they will line that out but it would be either 5' or 6'. It may even end up to be 4'. Haha. At this point, it never surprises me what they come back with on the drawing.

 

[Winnie-the-Pool]

I like the skimmers on opposite walls, upper left, lower right but I would put each one closer to center, maybe not quite 1/3 of the way down each long wall.

I would place the returns as follows for a good clockwise circulation that will flow past the skimmers well:

1 Far right of top long wall
2 Lower end of right side wall
3 Far left of bottom long wall
4 Top end of left side wall

Just curious as to why you aren't including a main drain?

 

[Hugman]

I like the skimmers on opposite walls, upper left, lower right but I would put each one closer to center, maybe not quite 1/3 of the way down each long wall.

I would place the returns as follows for a good clockwise circulation that will flow past the skimmers well:

1 Far right of top long wall
2 Lower end of right side wall
3 Far left of bottom long wall
4 Top end of left side wall

Just curious as to why you aren't including a main drain?

I will have main drains, not sure why they don't show them in the drawing.

So something like this? My biggest concern is circulation in the step. That's the main reason I question the setup they provided. What are your thoughts there? The step is vinyl over steel and they said step jets would leak if I put them in.

 

[Winnie-the-Pool]

I have a return in my vinyl over steel steps (though my steps are in the center of one of the short walls).

While mine hasn't leaked (I haven't owned this house long, but the Pool Guy that was taking care of it when we bought it has been very honest about other issues with the pool and he took care of it for over 15 years (I kind of felt bad letting him go, but simply didn't need him)) and my steps still collect debris. It's really not difficult to deal with and you should be brushing your pool, including your steps and swimout at least once a week as part of regular maintenance.

Tip: If you brush debris toward the main drains, they will suck in the small debris and you'll have to vacuum less often.

Part of the reason that I placed the returns to create a clockwise flow initially was to prevent water being pushed into the step area. It may be better to reverse the flow since it would be best for the returns to be further away from the skimmers, as not to push floating debris past them. So just move each return around each corner clockwise and the circulation will then be counter-clockwise... does that make sense?

What is the new blue arrow next to the swimout?

 

[ajw22]

I will have main drains, not sure why they don't show them in the drawing.

So something like this? My biggest concern is circulation in the step. That's the main reason I question the setup they provided. What are your thoughts there? The step is vinyl over steel and they said step jets would leak if I put them in.

View attachment 85494

This design will not achieve the circulation described. What you will have is a short circuit of water from the return 90 degrees opposite the skimmer into that skimmer. You will have two pools of water with short paths and the rest of the water will be blocked from the skimmers and have trouble flowing into them.

You are over designing this. Simpler is better. Skimmers and returns at opposite sides of the pool. Dont create tidal barriers.

 

[Hugman]

I moved the returns, the blue circle at the bottom is the suction line for the cleaner.
Sounds like we all agree on opposite corners for the skimmers?
Is this the finished product haha?

Will this work well?

Thanks everyone so much!!!!

 

[Dirk]

Any extra suggestions on this setup?

Off topic...

Consider the locations of your lights. As they are now, there is virtually no where to be around your pool at which a light won't be shining in your eyes. The location of the single light in my pool shines directly into the house, and directly at where we usually sit. Very uncomfortable and so I use it very little.

Your lights should shine away from the house, and away from where you'll tend to lounge around the pool at night. So, for example, if your steps lead to your main patio and house, you might like the lighting better if both lights were on the same side of the pool as the steps, shining away from the house. So while at the patio, or inside the house, you'll see the pool all lit up, but you won't see the light bulbs...

 

[Hugman]

Off topic...

Consider the locations of your lights. As they are now, there is virtually nowhere to be around your pool at which a light won't be shining in your eyes. The location of the single light in my pool shines directly into the house, and directly at where we usually sit. Very uncomfortable and so I use it very little.

Your lights should shine away from the house, and away from where you'll tend to lounge around the pool at night. So, for example, if your steps lead to your main patio and house, you might like the lighting better if both lights were on the same side of the pool as the steps, shining away from the house. So while at the patio, or inside the house, you'll see the pool all lit up, but you won't see the light bulbs...

I have been contemplating that as well. The house is on the step side, I intitally was thinking about putting the lights on that long side as you suggested. Couple of things have me concerned about it. If both lights are on the step side, when in the pool looking back toward the house, would that not be a bit blinding? Perhaps not, given they are low and my porch is elevated from pool level. Also, I wonder if the steps would be almost completely out of the light given the light is directed to the opisite side of the pool. I also have concerns that the shallow end light would be at the 15 or 16 ft mark of the pool given step location. Allthough i may be able to squeeze it in on the right side of steps in the corner.

What are your thoughts on this? Thanks!

 

[ajw22]

I moved the returns, the blue circle at the bottom is the suction line for the cleaner.
Sounds like we all agree on opposite corners for the skimmers?
Is this the finished product haha?

Will this work well?

I don't agree that skimmers should be on opposite corners. Skimmers on one long side and returns on the other long side use the middle of your pool as a big mixing bowl.

Below is the circulation pattern I think your design will create with a big dead spot in the middle.

 

[Hugman]

I don't agree that skimmers should be on opposite corners. Skimmers on one long side and returns on the other long side use the middle of your pool as a big mixing bowl.

Below is the circulation pattern I think your design will create with a big dead spot in the middle.

Thanks for your input Allen, do you like the suggested locations the kit provider has in place.
Skimmers are market w/ 1085 on the bottom long side, 3 "inlets" at the top for returns, 1 inlet at the bottom for return, the extra inlet is for the suction cleaner.
Should I not worry too much about the circulation in the steps and swim out? Thanks for the detailed drawing. Below is a cleaner drawing of the standard by the pool company. Are my direction assumptions correct?

 

[ajw22]

Thanks for your input Allen, do you like the suggested locations the kit provider has in place.
Skimmers are market w/ 1085 on the bottom long side, 3 "inlets" at the top for returns, 1 inlet at the bottom for return, the extra inlet is for the suction cleaner.
Should I not worry too much about the circulation in the steps and swim out? Thanks for the detailed drawing. Below is a cleaner drawing of the standard by the pool company. Are my direction assumptions correct?
View attachment 85515

I like that layout much better. The kit company has the benefit of experience.

You can only optimize so much. Recesses are always a problem keeping clean and you just need to brush the pool and especially those areas regularly.

 

[Dirk]

I have been contemplating that as well. The house is on the step side, I intitally was thinking about putting the lights on that long side as you suggested. Couple of things have me concerned about it. If both lights are on the step side, when in the pool looking back toward the house, would that not be a bit blinding? Perhaps not, given they are low and my porch is elevated from pool level. Also, I wonder if the steps would be almost completely out of the light given the light is directed to the opisite side of the pool. I also have concerns that the shallow end light would be at the 15 or 16 ft mark of the pool given step location. Allthough i may be able to squeeze it in on the right side of steps in the corner.

What are your thoughts on this? Thanks!

When in the pool, the lights will be in your eyes to some degree no matter where they are. For me, it's annoying. One could argue that if all the lights are on the same side, at least there will remain one direction you can face to avoid them.

So it's more about when you're not in the pool. Regarding the steps... hmmm, good point. With two lights, there should be enough ambient light reflecting off the opposite wall to negotiate the steps. They're not going to be dark and in shadow, just less well lit than other areas of the pool. You could always put a small light on a step or two. You could even put the large light on the step, I think I've seen that done. That'd solve for the other issue you mention, of where to place them on the same side.

Ask your PB if he can put them in the curve of the corner (depending on the radius that might work). That would still shine them away from the house, and evenly light the pool from each end, regardless of where the stairs end up. A criss-cross could look very interesting.

If I ever built a pool, I would put the big standard lights on their own switch and use fiber optics to light the entire pool from under the coping, floor lights optional, also on their own switch. I don't like swimming in a lit up pool. And nobody wants to look at my ol' body doing that either!! If my kids were in the pool, I'd want to light it up like the sun (it is a safety issue, after all), but by myself, I'd want only enough light to make out the edges and the bottom. Something like this, without being too gaudy:



Google pool light or fiber optic pool lights. There are some very interesting solutions now.

 

[jimmythegreek]

And make sure u check everything once the kit comes. I see this is a poolwarehouse kit they are horrible w replacing missing pieces and u will def have stuff missing. Their designs are standard don't be scared to move stuff how u want it. I'd recommend bigger skimmers if u have trees or plan to have stuff dropping in the pool the standard skimmers they include are small