Skimmer and Drain, Vacuum port, Pool vacuum

[Jeffrito]

Hi, My Pentair Rebel gets stuck on the 2 drains, and stays in the deep end. I'd like to retire it after 3 years. To make it move (slowly) at 2400 RPM I have to move the lever all the over to the left which cuts off the skimmer. Having the lever set so both function has never worked. So I run the vacuum 6 hours and then walk out and move the lever all the way over to the right for 2 hours (Pump runs 8 hours). I'm sure this is not the way to do it as it infers there will always be an old retired guy around to mess with the pool settings.
I have considered getting a robot that I can drop in and it cleans the entire pool and then is taken out. This would mean closing the side vacuum port.

Questions

1. When the side vacuum port is closed due to not using a suction vacuum, does the lever for the valve between the port and the skimmer/drain stay all the way to the right? How do I test the main drains, I can't feel any suction? And will I get enough circulation using just the skimmer and the bottom drains?
2. If I upgrade to another suction vacuum, any recommendations? And should I be able to have both my skimmer and vacuum working together? And can I leave the vacuum in the pool 24/7 like I have been, running 8 hours along with the pump?

Circulation: The 3 returns are just pvc flush with the wall blowing straight out, #1 works well, #1 less so, #3 barely anything comes out. I have always felt the vacuum was necessary then for circulation.
Hope this is clear - Thanks!

 

[Jimrahbe]

Jeff,

Your pump only has two inputs... Vac Line and your Skimmer (and maybe your Main drain..)

Based upon your plumbing, your main drain is plumbed into the bottom of your skimmer.

This mean that unless you have a floating diverter valve under your skimmer basket, then you effectively have no main drain suction. And even if you do have a floating diverter valve, it most likely is not working, as most do not, or they are very intermittent. Show us a pic of your skimmer, looking down, with the basket removed..

The good news is that you do not need a main drain at all...

The only way to have your Vac and your skimmer both work well, at the same time, is to increase your pump speed..

Your circulation issue has a lot to do with having no eyeballs on your returns.. Water will take the path of least resistance every time.. It is much easier to go out the closest hole, then to go all the way to the farthest hole..

The fix is to install eyeballs.. Make the first eyeball the smallest, the middle eyeball a little bigger, and the last eyeball the biggest.. This will even out the flow at all three returns.

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[Jeffrito]

I'm having a problem finding a vacuum I've looked at the 4 wheel Hayward (expensive to repair )and the Polaris - they all seem to have issues with getting out of the deep end and getting hung up and flipping on their side. What if I just get one of the robots I can drop in run and then pull out? The question then is how is my water circulating? Currently it goes through my side vacuum fitting and also through the skimmer I don't know about the main drains I would have to test those somehow- I tried with my little pH tester and I didn't see the dye being sucked in but maybe I'm doing it wrong. As far as eyeballs I'll have to look into that do they fit right on the cut off PVC that's flush with the side of the pool? I don't think the flow is enough to make much difference frankly I can feel it with my hand. Strong over the large shallow Baja ledge medium in the shallow end and the deep end return is just a trickle . I'm just concerned that my only source of drainage is going to be my skimmer if I plug up that side valve. How do I test my main drains? And what I was actually looking for is a fitting that would go over the side suction intake That would still suck in water it would have a protective covering over it but that way I would get suction from both the skimmer and the side valve after removing the suction vacuum- do they make something like that because I've looked and I don't see anything from my first pass search . Thanks!

 

[Jimrahbe]

Jeff,

Your skimmer should provide all the suction and circulation that you need..

I asked for .... " Show us a pic of your skimmer, looking down, with the basket removed..".. This will tell us if you main drains are working at all.. I doubt they are, but most old pools do not have a working main drain, and they work just fine.. You do not need it..

They make eyeballs that mount to cut off pipe.. Are you sure the return pipes are just cut off??

Pool Eyeball Insider Fitting - 1-1/2" Slip - 1/2" Opening

This is a 1-1/2 inch Directional Return Knock-in Fitting in white with a 1/2 inch opening. Our directional eyeball insider fittings with 1-1/2 inch slip are knock-ins and self-aligning. They are designed to fit standard slip inlets or wall fittings. Made of high-quality ABS plastic, our inlet...

www.poolweb.com

I'm sure they make more than just this one..

There is no reason that you can't be sucking through the vac port as well as the skimmer, if you wanted.. If you do that with the hose off, you really need a cover that keeps someone from sticking there arm against the open port..

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[Jeffrito]

I'm having a problem finding a vacuum I've looked at the 4 whew Hayward (expensive to repair )and the Polaris - they all seem to have issues with getting out of the deep endand getting hung up and flipping on their side. What if I just get one of the robots I can drop in run and then pull out? The question then is how is my water circulating? Currently it goes through my side vacuum fitting and also through the skimmer I don't know about the main drains I would have to test those somehow- I tried with my little pH tester and I didn't see the dye being sucked in but maybe I'm doing it wrong. As far as eyeballs I'll have to look into that do they fit right on the cut off PVC that's flush with the side of the pool? I don't think the flow is enough to make much difference frankly I can feel it with my hand. Strong over the large shallow Baja ledge medium in the shallow end and the deep end return is just a trickle . I'm just concerned that my only source of drainage is going to be my skimmer if I plug up that side valve. How do I test my main drains? And what I was actually looking for is a fitting that would go over the side suction intake That would still suck in water it would have a protective covering over it but that way I would get suction from both the skimmer and the side valve after removing the suction vacuum- do they make something like that because I've looked and I don't see anything from my first pass search . Thanks!

My returns are only 1 inch PVC. I have three of them. Like I said the first one works OK the second one fair and the third ones pretty useless so I don't think I'm getting circulation through my returns I think I'm gonna rely upon a suction vacuum? And the vacuum port seems to be one and a half inch PVC with the vacuum fitting being an inch and a quarter I'm just looking for a plug that has vents in it but I can't find one

 

[Jeffrito]

Jeff,

Your skimmer should provide all the suction and circulation that you need..

I asked for .... " Show us a pic of your skimmer, looking down, with the basket removed..".. This will tell us if you main drains are working at all.. I doubt they are, but most old pools do not have a working main drain, and they work just fine.. You do not need it..

They make eyeballs that mount to cut off pipe.. Are you sure the return pipes are just cut off??

Pool Eyeball Insider Fitting - 1-1/2" Slip - 1/2" Opening

This is a 1-1/2 inch Directional Return Knock-in Fitting in white with a 1/2 inch opening. Our directional eyeball insider fittings with 1-1/2 inch slip are knock-ins and self-aligning. They are designed to fit standard slip inlets or wall fittings. Made of high-quality ABS plastic, our inlet...

www.poolweb.com

I'm sure they make more than just this one..

There is no reason that you can't be sucking through the vac port as well as the skimmer, if you wanted.. If you do that with the hose off, you really need a cover that keeps someone from sticking there arm against the open port..

Thanks,

Jim R.

Sorry, I didn't see this when I posted below. Here's a picture of the skimmer. The pool is only three years old. The return lines are 1 inch PVC, which I don't think is up to code or sufficient. They don't provide much circulation. The intake vacuum port appears to be an inch and a half with the fitting being an inch and a quarter but I can't find a plug that has a vent on it anywhere online but maybe I'm not using the correct search terms.
I have one of those skim-a-rounds that increase the flow into the skimmer. I don't know if you guys recommend that - it just seemed to pull in the water faster. There's a picture here of that taken out. There's two openings one isn't sucking in any water at all regardless of lever setting. There's also that one cap I have never used that has the movable cover on it. I'm not sure exactly how that works.

 

[Jimrahbe]

Jeff,

I'm sure you are correct, but I find it almost impossible to believe that any pool builder would use 1" plumbing for pool returns..

That makes no sense at all!!!

That "cap" that has a movable cover, is what makes your main drain work... I too am unsure exactly how it works...

There are two holes in the bottom of the skimmer, the one closest to the water, is connected to your main drain.. The other hole is connected to your main pool pump.. This is why you have suction on one and nothing on the other..

Let's see if @JamesW has a clue how the cap or diverter valve actually works...

That skim -around is just all magic but no rabbit... It is not something we would recommend.. Your skimmers should actually work...

I suspect that your skimmer is missing its weir door.. In between the mouth of the skimmer, and the skimmer basket, there should be a weir door.. This door is what makes the skimmer actually skim.. This door kind of floats or bobs up and down with the pool water.. Do you have an operating weir door??

Here are some 1" slip fittings..

Pool Return Jets, Wall Fitting Eyeballs - INYOPools.com

InyoPools.com offers high-quality pool wall return jets, also known as eyeball fittings, to optimize water circulation in your swimming pool.

www.inyopools.com

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[JamesW]

Show the whole system.

 

[Jeffrito]

Show the whole system.

Hi James
Thanks for weighing in. Wasn't sure by what you meant by show the whole system. I've posted a bunch of screenshots up there with descriptions, but here's a four minute video that goes over pretty much everything and gives you an overview of the returns. The layout, the skimmer, the construction materials the pump, the solar system, some of the plumbing, the controller, etc. let me know if you need anything else!
Thanks
Jeff