It just was really hard to turn and was overloading the motor, not sure why it happened but it did. The motor had been replaced some point in the past but I don't think the wet end/pump had been touched. The original impeller just had plastic threads for the motor shaft, which melted to the shaft to screw into. I couldn't get it apart so took it to Leslie's which advertised no labor for equipment brought in for repair. They couldn't get the impeller off either so I took it to a local pool store that had the same deal. Not sure if this is an industry standard or just something they do here, but it gets you in their door. If I could have gotten the impeller off I'd have replaced it myself, but the parts cost wasn't that much more and they were friendly and helpful. The new impeller has a brass threaded insert to make it easier to take apart, without destroying the impeller. The pool looked like it had been sitting all summer, still had the winter cover on, so I think the seal dried out and when I did the quick test it came apart and froze everything up, then when I tried to test it wet the motor couldn't move and overloaded the circuit. The test did confirm the motor was working, I knew from reading here there still might be problems with the seal or pump which I couldn't test for.
Shopping for a used AGP... questions
- Thread starter y_not
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It just was really hard to turn and was overloading the motor, not sure why it happened but it did. The motor had been replaced some point in the past but I don't think the wet end/pump had been touched. The original impeller just had plastic threads for the motor shaft, which melted to the shaft to screw into. I couldn't get it apart so took it to Leslie's which advertised no labor for equipment brought in for repair. They couldn't get the impeller off either so I took it to a local pool store that had the same deal. Not sure if this is an industry standard or just something they do here, but it gets you in their door. If I could have gotten the impeller off I'd have replaced it myself, but the parts cost wasn't that much more and they were friendly and helpful. The new impeller has a brass threaded insert to make it easier to take apart, without destroying the impeller. The pool looked like it had been sitting all summer, still had the winter cover on, so I think the seal dried out and when I did the quick test it came apart and froze everything up, then when I tried to test it wet the motor couldn't move and overloaded the circuit. The test did confirm the motor was working, I knew from reading here there still might be problems with the seal or pump which I couldn't test for.
I folded mine back in after I had about 2' of water up the sidewall. Not real neat but I was getting tired at the time and it works. Causes it to pooch out a little above the water line. I think it looks better than leaving it hang over. You got to leave a little on the outside in case the ground settles and pulls the liner past the coping and top rail. I left about 2" and it's mostly un-noticeable under the top seats. Depending on size of pool you may have more or less material overhanging. My pool is slightly undersized so the bottom seam runs near the top of the cove with a 72" expandable liner. With a non-expandable liner I understand they will stretch a little so you might be able to dig out a little, but not much. When I was looking they had 2 sizes of expandable liners, I think one was 60" and the other 72". I ended up not going as deep as I thought I would but we had bought the liner during the winter when they were on sale. I probably could have got by with the 60" liner.
Wow, that's quite the pump story there.
In this area, I'm pretty sure they'd laugh at me if I even asked about free labor on a pump repair. LOL
But I'll certainly try if the time ever comes, I'll throw Leslie's in their face.
But case in point, one shop here thinks that you can't put DE in your sand filter and if you do, it'll surely ruin it. Another shop believes in mandatory sand replacement every 5 years. "As it rolls around in there like a sand tumbler, so it has a limited life." Don'cha know??
So laughable.
So am I correct to assume that I can't have, say, an 8 or 7 foot deep end on one end?
As it appears they don't make the liners that deep, but I haven't looked realy hard or anything. Just a quick skim.
*no pun intended.
One place said if you use an expandable liner, expect wrinkles unless you are a professional pool installer. Is that because you need a liner vac?
PS. Your sig says you have a 10" Hopper. Do you mean 10 feet ' not inches " ?
In this area, I'm pretty sure they'd laugh at me if I even asked about free labor on a pump repair. LOL
But I'll certainly try if the time ever comes, I'll throw Leslie's in their face.
But case in point, one shop here thinks that you can't put DE in your sand filter and if you do, it'll surely ruin it. Another shop believes in mandatory sand replacement every 5 years. "As it rolls around in there like a sand tumbler, so it has a limited life." Don'cha know??
So laughable.
So am I correct to assume that I can't have, say, an 8 or 7 foot deep end on one end?
As it appears they don't make the liners that deep, but I haven't looked realy hard or anything. Just a quick skim.
*no pun intended.
One place said if you use an expandable liner, expect wrinkles unless you are a professional pool installer. Is that because you need a liner vac?
PS. Your sig says you have a 10" Hopper. Do you mean 10 feet ' not inches " ?
The deep end is only 10 inches deeper than the rest. You can't get a pre-manufactured liner to the depth that you want, but you might be able to get a custom liner. I have some wrinkles but I think it is mainly due to not going as deep as the liner was designed for and my inexperience in putting a liner. I had a little help from the DW but was mostly on my own. You can use a regular shop-vac, there are several you-tube videos on it. I used the let down method that Dennis of shadebuilder.com uses.
My deep end is right at 6 feet. When I installed, I may have stretched my liner too much, but I still have 1.5' overlap, so I could have gone 7 feet...my liner was a 72" expandable (I think made by swimline). On my pool's hopper layout, I probably wouldn't want to go much deeper, since part of my slope down to the deep end is pretty steep (my deep end can be seen here: one fool's method for doing a deep end.
If I had a larger diameter to start with, I would probably attempt 7' next time.
If I had a larger diameter to start with, I would probably attempt 7' next time.
I did mine a little different from Linen, mine is a full circle. The slope starts about 4' in from the sides and levels out to about an 8' circle on the bottom.
OK, I gotcha. I figured it had to be 10ft, as 10 inches seemed like an oddity. Can I ask how you landed on 10" and not, say a foot?msgtdan said:
Sounds silly expensive.... CUUUUSSSSTOOOOOMMMMM YIKES!!!!!msgtdan said:
I imagine it'd be pretty hard to keep the wrinkles out of it doing it pretty much all by yourself. Talk about a WORKOUT!!msgtdan said:
Is this the method you used? http://www.shadebuilder.com/Above-Groun ... ation.html
What made you go this route, over the vacuum method?
The method Dennis outlines in the link above seems like simple logic to me, other than unrolling it outside the pool, then rolling it back up before placing it in the pool. I wouldn't have thought of that, I would have just plopped it in the center and unrolled it. Seems like extra work, but I suppose that's so you don't mess up your nice, level, smoothed sand base unrolling the stiff tightly factory packed & wound liner. So on that front it makes sense.
Actually, on second thought, you must have followed this one.
http://www.shadebuilder.com/Expandable- ... ation.html
He says the following about the seam position prior to fill.
"We are now going around the pool... pulling the liner up a little at a time... keep doing this until the bottom seam is about six inches down from the top rail on the inside of the pool."
By top rail, does he mean 6in. below the top lip of the pool? Meaning the seam is far, far too high from where it needs to be? IE. His "let down" method, because you slowly lower it as it fills, so the seam lines up 52"-48" down?
Speaking of seams. Being that it's an expandable liner, where is the seam supposed to end up? Surely it's not going to line up with the bottom cove of the pool, yeah?
It seems like in places it will and others it won't, since if it were to line up, that'd imply that the liner company custom made the liner for your pool's dimensions. Hrmmm..
linen said:
HAHA!! What a great thread title that you linked to. I love it! I really had a good laugh on that.
Then again, I'm easily amused. It makes life "more funner" that way.
I read through the thread pretty good, skimmed some. Will study more later.
I have one glaring question. These "expandable" liners. Are they just that, the vinyl is designed to stttreeeeeetch beyond it's length to a certain point?
Meaning your 6ft liner can got to say 7ft or something?
Is that what separates them from an overlap liner? As they look the same otherwise, since they have no bead/hook. Just a cut end.
Glad you enjoyed it...a lot of good stuff in there from supertune and jrh.
My understanding is that the expandable version of an overlap liner does stretch more than the non-expandable overlap liner. My liner was speced to stretch to 6'...I just mentioned 7' cause I think I could have gotten it to stretch that far without problems.
My understanding is that the expandable version of an overlap liner does stretch more than the non-expandable overlap liner. My liner was speced to stretch to 6'...I just mentioned 7' cause I think I could have gotten it to stretch that far without problems.
What can I say, I'm easy to please. Give me a little humor and I'm a happy camper.
My problem is that I'm 6'3", so I need at least 7 ft or I'm going to be in that "not touching but touching, standing on your tippy toes." mode. You know what I'm talking about? I hate that.
*perry the platypus* grrr
So is there one brand of liner, or brands that are better than others?
My problem is that I'm 6'3", so I need at least 7 ft or I'm going to be in that "not touching but touching, standing on your tippy toes." mode. You know what I'm talking about? I hate that.
*perry the platypus* grrr
So is there one brand of liner, or brands that are better than others?
This looks intriguing but I can't find prices on them anywhere.
http://www.classicpoolandspa.com/dbliner.html
"Doughboy liners are a "True Mil" measure. Don't be confused by the 20 gauge or 20 weight when the liners really measure only 15 Mil (.015") in thickness or less."
Truth or marketing hype? They also say it stretches to a true 7ft depth.
http://www.classicpoolandspa.com/dbliner.html
"Doughboy liners are a "True Mil" measure. Don't be confused by the 20 gauge or 20 weight when the liners really measure only 15 Mil (.015") in thickness or less."
Truth or marketing hype? They also say it stretches to a true 7ft depth.
I went out and looked at the pool on Sat.
Spent a lot of time inspecting all the parts, pump, filter, etc..
It's all in practically brand new shape, minus dirt on the bottom parts & the usual dust and such on everything else. No signs of corrosion or anything.
I couldn't verify that it is, or is not an Esther Williams pool. There were no markings of the company brand on anything. There were p/n's though.
Some did match the sheet I linked to in an earlier post. Some didn't.
I believe it to be a Johnny Weissmuller pool, as the top plates don't match any EW pools I could find, just the JW.
The other confusing thing is that it's all steel. Everything I can find says these pools were all aluminum. I'm pretty sure the rolled side wall is too. It's quite heavy, heavy enough it should be steel. I could lift a corner of the full roll, so maybe 150lbs or so.
The only thing that appears aluminum are the wall channels. They're painted white.
I didn't have a magnet with me to verify.
The upright caps that go over the angled top rails are fine, except for tabs that stick out that are factory crimped/scored so they can be folded over underneath as an extra safety measure to ensure they don't come off. At least that seems to be the case.
Well, these are aaaallllll snapped off, except for 1 or 2 of the 18. I rigged them up between 2 rails, snapped them in and you literally caaannnnn noooottt remove them without deliberately pulling them out, then up. Even that's hard. So they'll definitely stay, least it looks like it. There is a screw that goes down through the center into the top clip bracket that's attached to the upright+horiz. rails.
So I think this should be OK.
His pump is a Pentair 1.5HP Dynamo, which sounds brand new. When you 1st fire it up, it immediately makes this kind of "clutch" noise for a 1/2 second or so, then spins up and sounds beautiful. Nice and quiet!! Music to my ears!!
Sadly, it's only a single speed pump.
His filter on the other hand is waaaayyyyyy too tiny. It's a 150lb PacFab 1.8 SQft sand filter. It's max flow rate is 35GPM. So the pump is far, far too big unless there's over 40ft of head loss. Not to mention that the filter is for an aprox. 9,500gal pool. So roughly half the size of this one.
So I'll have to get that Pentair Tagelus 600lb filter I was looking at.
He did come out with a pool cleaner bot. A Pool Rover Jr. that he'll throw in too.
He said it worked great, it just filled up so fast that it was impractical. *Well yeah, that's cause your filter wasn't doing its job.
Plus it looks like it has a really fine bag on it. Is it supposed to have what looks like a few factory holes in the filter bag? IIRC they're sewn edges, like on a shirt button hole.
The skimmer is a Hayward, silicone gasket is good, but the screw hole mounts are all cracked/split open. So it's no good.
He was clearly using pucks. Dust and plastic corrosion degradation all over the plastic wall skimmer+basket. There was also puck dust in the pump skimmer as well. I know they're very acidic, he says he didn't put them in the pump skimmer, only the wall skimmer. I believe him, he's a total nerd like me.
So 4 questions...
1. Do undissolved granules usually end up in the pump basket and is this bad, IE. too acidic?
2. Filter has zeosand in it, plus the specs say it should have 40lbs of pea gravel in the bottom. Any tips, beside the obvious, on preserving the zeosand. Keeping it separate from the gravel more or less, for transport to play with later?
3. Any thoughts on whether there were any EW/JW pools made by Delair that were nearly all steel like this?
4. At $500 bones, being all steel. Do you think I should talk him down on it at all, with the filter+pump situation & needing a new skimmer?
Spent a lot of time inspecting all the parts, pump, filter, etc..
It's all in practically brand new shape, minus dirt on the bottom parts & the usual dust and such on everything else. No signs of corrosion or anything.
I couldn't verify that it is, or is not an Esther Williams pool. There were no markings of the company brand on anything. There were p/n's though.
Some did match the sheet I linked to in an earlier post. Some didn't.
I believe it to be a Johnny Weissmuller pool, as the top plates don't match any EW pools I could find, just the JW.
The other confusing thing is that it's all steel. Everything I can find says these pools were all aluminum. I'm pretty sure the rolled side wall is too. It's quite heavy, heavy enough it should be steel. I could lift a corner of the full roll, so maybe 150lbs or so.
The only thing that appears aluminum are the wall channels. They're painted white.
I didn't have a magnet with me to verify.
The upright caps that go over the angled top rails are fine, except for tabs that stick out that are factory crimped/scored so they can be folded over underneath as an extra safety measure to ensure they don't come off. At least that seems to be the case.
Well, these are aaaallllll snapped off, except for 1 or 2 of the 18. I rigged them up between 2 rails, snapped them in and you literally caaannnnn noooottt remove them without deliberately pulling them out, then up. Even that's hard. So they'll definitely stay, least it looks like it. There is a screw that goes down through the center into the top clip bracket that's attached to the upright+horiz. rails.
So I think this should be OK.
His pump is a Pentair 1.5HP Dynamo, which sounds brand new. When you 1st fire it up, it immediately makes this kind of "clutch" noise for a 1/2 second or so, then spins up and sounds beautiful. Nice and quiet!! Music to my ears!!
Sadly, it's only a single speed pump.
His filter on the other hand is waaaayyyyyy too tiny. It's a 150lb PacFab 1.8 SQft sand filter. It's max flow rate is 35GPM. So the pump is far, far too big unless there's over 40ft of head loss. Not to mention that the filter is for an aprox. 9,500gal pool. So roughly half the size of this one.
So I'll have to get that Pentair Tagelus 600lb filter I was looking at.
He did come out with a pool cleaner bot. A Pool Rover Jr. that he'll throw in too.
He said it worked great, it just filled up so fast that it was impractical. *Well yeah, that's cause your filter wasn't doing its job.
Plus it looks like it has a really fine bag on it. Is it supposed to have what looks like a few factory holes in the filter bag? IIRC they're sewn edges, like on a shirt button hole.
The skimmer is a Hayward, silicone gasket is good, but the screw hole mounts are all cracked/split open. So it's no good.
He was clearly using pucks. Dust and plastic corrosion degradation all over the plastic wall skimmer+basket. There was also puck dust in the pump skimmer as well. I know they're very acidic, he says he didn't put them in the pump skimmer, only the wall skimmer. I believe him, he's a total nerd like me.
So 4 questions...
1. Do undissolved granules usually end up in the pump basket and is this bad, IE. too acidic?
2. Filter has zeosand in it, plus the specs say it should have 40lbs of pea gravel in the bottom. Any tips, beside the obvious, on preserving the zeosand. Keeping it separate from the gravel more or less, for transport to play with later?
3. Any thoughts on whether there were any EW/JW pools made by Delair that were nearly all steel like this?
4. At $500 bones, being all steel. Do you think I should talk him down on it at all, with the filter+pump situation & needing a new skimmer?
How big is the pool? For A new 24' round your looking at between $1500-$3000.If the pool is in good shape I'd ask him for his lowest number,but from your description i'd give it some serious thought.(as long as it's not super small)
It's 27ft. He says it's 28', but all the parts say otherwise. 52" sidewalls.CB said:
Yeah, I looked @ AGP prices, I figured about $1,900-$2,800 for what looked to be a decent quality AGP /w liner. Then I have to spend about $500 on a pump + used filter, $200-300 ish on a ladder that isn't awful and a robot. Plus a pole, vac head, brush, that sort of stuff. So probably about another grand. So it becomes a little under/over $3-4k.
None of that'll include excavating, possible retaining wall, etc.. Which I'll be doing most of that myself, but it still costs money.
The used one has all that, save for $100 bones for a bigger used filter plus maybe another $100 in gas to get it here and a $50-80 wide mouth skimmer. Ladder looks like a tank, sealed ends, weighs down with water from top fill ports. So no algae farm. But the ladder may be a moot point, as I'm planning for a partial burry. But that'll be another thread.
I'll need to buy a liner too, not sure on that cost as I can't find a 84" expandable liner other than Doughboy.
Clarification:just making sure we're on the same page.
I was suggesting that you think about the used pool.So maybe you could get some of the useful equipment basically free with the purchase of the pool.
As for your search for an 84" expandable liner
http://www.familypoolfun.com/expandable_liner?quickview
I was suggesting that you think about the used pool.So maybe you could get some of the useful equipment basically free with the purchase of the pool.
As for your search for an 84" expandable liner
http://www.familypoolfun.com/expandable_liner?quickview
Aaaahhhh, OK. I gotcha now. Sorry, I can be kinda bone headed.CB said:
You have a good point, I was already thinking it's a good deal. Shoot, the robot alone makes it worth it. HEHE
I know it's not worth $500, but you get the drift.
Oh cool!CB said:
You know, that's funny, I found the same thing on a Google hit. Passed by it though, as it's listed as "gauge", not mil thickness. I have read, even here on TFP IIRC that gauge is a joke, it's a fake liner measurement that doesn't mean anything. I have read that anyone selling a liner using the "gauge" measurement, you should run far, far away from it.
Plus I just want either a plain liner or the blue swirly kind. None of that faux tile junk.
Also, it's a unibead liner. This pool doesn't have a bead.
So...
I guess I need to give them a call, see if they have some simple patterns, with no bead and what the price is when I buy it on its own without one of their pools. If all that pans out, I'll ask to see the manuf. spec sheet and quiz them as to why they advertise "gauge" not mil.
EDIT: Well, it seems it has more to do with knowing the difference in measurement than anything. Makes good sense.
Plus, according to this write up, liners measured in gauge are typically, but not always, of USA origin. Where as liners measured in mil are usually of Chinese origin. That also makes good sense, seeming logical.
http://www.lazydaypools.com/027.pdf
*Ignore the article's shameless plug about yet another snake oil chemical free pool product.
LOL
You can add a bead receiver to any agp....but I have never seen or heard of an installation with an expandable liner that uses a bead receiver...I am not sure how you would stretch the liner into the cavity? At 84", that's a lot of stretching required.y_not said:
Rental equipment failure and I got tired of hand digging. Also the water is right at chin level which is fine for me.
Yes from the top of the pool. My seam ended up right around the top of the cove, I think if I'd dug out deeper it probably would have ended up near the bottom of the cove. The seam is a good reference point for lowering it evenly, though it helps to have one person on each side of the pool. One lowers while the other gauges how far by looking at the seam. I did the first couple of feet by myself as I could touch the seam as I lowered it and judge where it was. After that the wife helped and we did okay for amateurs.
I used a shop vac to empty the sand from mine, 250#'s, had to empty the shop vac several times. I used old 50# dog food sacks and put about 25#'s in each. I took along a small child's sand castle scoop in case the shop vac didn't work. If it really has gravel in it not sure what to do, maybe get it all out together and then screen out the gravel?