Shock/Tingle getting into/out of pool

[Barry321]

I think reasons for the change, i.e. reasons for variable test results, were fairly well documented in posts #188 & #189 above.

So replacing my pool deck and having a pool contractor replace the bond wire around the pool should do the trick?

Electrical utility says everything on their end is fine. A commercial pool electrician that used his own meter on my pool is pretty sure it's an issue with the bond wire .

 

[mas985]

So replacing my pool deck and having a pool contractor replace the bond wire around the pool should do the trick?

If the rebar is bonded and all metal components (lights, railings, etc) are bonded, it should solve the problem.

Electrical utility says everything on their end is fine.

They always say that even though there can be an issue with NEV. Their tolerance for NEV is much higher than a pool owners tolerance.

 

[Barry321]

If the rebar is bonded and all metal components (lights, railings, etc) are bonded, it should solve the problem.


They always say that even though there can be an issue with NEV. Their tolerance for NEV is much higher than a pool owners tolerance.

That's the issue- I can't be sure the hand-rails at the end of the pool or the ladder is bonded. A bond wire was installed in the pool deck, but my guess is it's damaged or come unsecured from either the rails, the ladder on the other end, or the metal coping in between the two. There is no way to tell without pulling up the concrete.

Below is my pool before the concrete deck was poured. I have drawn a red line approx where the bonding wire is at (not exactly as I did it with my finger on my phone). With a muli-meter, I measure the voltage from the ladder rail on the far end (Top right of picture) to the water right at the ladder and get 0 volts.

About half-way between the ladder and the handrails at the bottom of picture, I can measure about 0.21 volts from the water to the concrete pool deck.

At the handrails (bottom of picture) I can measure about 0.25 to 0.35 volts from each metal rail to the water.

If I string up another bond wire and wrap it around the hand rails (bottom of picture) and run it over to the ladder on the far end and measure the hand rails to the water again, the voltage almost totally disappears. It drops from 0.25 to 0.35 down to something around 0.012.

My assumption is that the bonding wire between the handrails and the ladder has been damaged or come loose somewhere along that pathway

 

[mas985]

That's the issue- I can't be sure the hand-rails at the end of the pool or the ladder is bonded. A bond wire was installed in the pool deck, but my guess is it's damaged or come unsecured from either the rails, the ladder on the other end, or the metal coping in between the two. There is no way to tell without pulling up the concrete.

All that should be fixed when you replace the deck. Just make sure everything is bonded before they repour the deck.

My assumption is that the bonding wire between the handrails and the ladder has been damaged or come loose somewhere along that pathway

That is probably a good assumption.

 

[Barry321]

All that should be fixed when you replace the deck. Just make sure everything is bonded before they repour the deck.

The contractor I have coming tomorrow to look at the job does a lot of pool landscaping jobs in my area- really fancy landscaping work per their website- with pavers and various sorts of pool decks (along with just regular patios, etc). I am not going fancy, just a basic pool deck but probably not concrete this time. I'll find out their options tomorrow.

They sub out any vinyl pool work to a local vinyl pool builder who I am assume will do the new bond wire or have their own electrician do it. All I really need their pool contractor to do is do the bond wire and replace the light in my pool that leaks bad now. That's it for the pool work.

I am going to have the pool guy he uses triple check to make sure everything is bonded perfectly before the landscape contractor has his guys put the pavers down. I am going to make sure, this time, that I also look at it and take picture to document the bond wire is done right. I didn't know enough about this issue to pay it any attention when I had my pool built in 2017. I just assumed the pool contractor would do it right since they had been in business for 30 years.

 

[Barry321]

Besides the temporary bond, I would also disconnect the pump from the bonding to avoid NEV causing any issues with the measurement. That connection is not important for resistance measurement anyway.

Also, I would add measurements between each railing/ladder. If each is connected to the other, then the issue may not be the anchors but somewhere else down the line.

I disconnected the bond wire from the pool pump lug and measured from my railing to the pool water-and still get about 3 volts. Didn't seem to make much of a difference.

I tend to think that suggests it's likely the bind wire that is damaged or disconnected somewhere. Does that sound about right?

 

[mas985]

Is that bond wire connected to any other equipment, heater or light or breaker box?

 

[Barry321]

Is that bond wire connected to any other equipment, heater or light or breaker box?

no. The bond wire that runs around the pool and runs out under the concrete deck, over to the pool pump about 15-20 feet away. It's only connected to the pool pump lug.

The electrical stuff that is there to run the pool pump, etc isn't connected to the bond wire at all.

 

[Barry321]

Is that bond wire connected to any other equipment, heater or light or breaker box?

I just went outside again, (bond wire connected to lug on pump), and I stretched by spare bare cooper wire out and wrapped one end around one handrail of my pool ladder, and ran it over and wrapped it around one of my handrails (at bottom in picture above) and then over to the pool pump lug.

The measurement I got with my multi-meter was around .031. (without that extra copper bare wire wrapped around like I just described), the same measurement is near 3 volts.

 

[Barry321]

The landscape contractor came by today. The owner of the company also came by. He's been doing landscaping around pools for 40 years.

First thing he told me after I described my situation was "I had the same problem with my pool I built in 2007. I was having minor shocks. I replaced my pool deck and put down a new bond wire and my problem disappeared." He didn't replace the deck because of the tingles though. He said his deck was in bad shape so he replaced it but fixed the bond wire too.

He took some measurements and called the guy he uses for vinyl pools. I showed him the picture above where my bond wire was during construction. I waited on him to finish talking to his pool guy.

After he talked to his pool guy, he told me he could replace the deck and have his pool guy put down the new bond wire. BUT, his pool guy couldn't promise that would solve my problem. He said he always needed to say that because it could be an issue with the utility provider or some unforeseen issue with electricity in the area. I totally understand him being careful and making no promises. Last thing was - if it's a problem with the bond wire, this should fix everything just fine. I actually respected them for saying it that way.

I told him my utility provider had sent a guy out here twice and they had checked everything on their end and said it was perfectly within their specs (same thing others have said on here).

He also mentioned if my handrail area was the only issue, he could replace the metal rails with the non-metal ones. But that would be up to me- much cheaper and might solve me having an issue with it, but obviously not totally solve the underlying issue.

The contractor told me it was all up to me. He didn't want to over-promise. He's going to have his guy that was with him write up a few quotes for me and he'll get back to me.

obviously said just replacing my concrete would be the cheapest route instead of putting pavers down. He said he thought my concrete was installed well and he said he hated I was having to deal with this. Very nice guy.