separate or combine systems for jacuzzi and IG pool?

Jump to latest Follow Reply
repairman

repairman

Gold Supporter
Nov 2, 2016
202
Lompoc, CA (central coast)
I am re plumbing my 22,000 gal IG pool and want to move my separate jacuzzi next to it, make it overflow into the pool, and combine systems. I was advised by a lady in a pool store against combining systems because it's a hassle always turning the valves basically. I want to get some opinions so please let me know what you think.
I get in the jacuzzi almost daily, and live in Southern Calif. I like the power of my jacuzzi now and don't want to lose that. I was told that only depends on the pump - sounds logical, is it true?
I have a separate Pentair pool heater, pool pump and air pumps on the jacuzzi now and just heat it up 15 minutes before I get in. I don't keep it heated all the time. Is it more economical to keep it heated and covered?
Lightbulb! Maybe that's what the pool lady was talking about - you can't keep your spa heated in a combined system. Even though I don't do that, maybe I'd want to. I have found it adequate to just cover it in the past, and turn the pump and heater on before I get in.
I'm confused about how you set the valves for waterfall (overflow) into pool and still heat the jacuzzi. So if you just bring in a little from the pool and recirculate most of the spa water, is that how people do it? I will look at plumbing diagrams again.
One more thing. Is it a problem with the pool getting dirtier in combined systems because of seat and oils from the spa?
Summary: Do you like separate systems for spa and pool or combined, and why? (I don't think I'd mind turning valves when I got in the spa, but I haven't had to. Don't think I want automatic valves.)
Thanks,
Repairman

- - - Updated - - -

correction "sweat and oils" not "seat"
 
I will simply say that, if I could redo my pool, I would remove the attached spa and go with a separate hot tub.
 
The convenience of a separate hot tub is exactly what you say, keep it covered and hot at all times. It is also Korea comfortable than a gunite hot tub. To make a spa overflow into the pool the pump draws water from the pool and pumps it into the spa. This will completely exchange the water in your tub in a fairly short amount of time. So, you will basically have pool water in your tub after a short amount to of time.

The other benefit is that tub water should be balanced slightly different than pool water because of rising pH from aeration in a tub. TA should be at 50 ppm and it is beneficial to add 50 ppm of borates to help reduce pH rise further. Also, you only need 30 ppm in a covered hot tub.

When we built our pool our PB strongly suggested that we get a separate hot tub. We are very happy that we did.
 
pooldv,
Thanks, I would just move my existing hot-tub next to the pool so I wouldn't be using a gunite one. So exchanging the pool and spa water is a disadvantage because they should be at different ph levels? And I just read that TA for a pool should be between 80 and 120ppm, which is quite different than 30 or 50. How significant is this? I am planning on using the ClearComfort sanitizing system that uses hydroxyl radicals to disinfect initially and leave some hydrogen peroxide for residual sanitation resulting in no need for chlorine. So if I have a chlorine free system does that affect the TA issue?
Thanks,
Repairman
 
repairman said:
Thanks, JoyfulNoise. Why is that?
Click to expand...

The attached spa takes up pool space that would otherwise be used by the kids. Also, the spa is basically just a jetted tub of water with no real therapeutic effect. I suppose one could construct a very complicated attached spa to act more like a hot tub but why bother.

Also, as Danny points out, if you want to run the chemistry differently then it's more of a pain.

Careful with the "alternative sanitizer" systems as they are often based on very bogus science. There are only four EPA approved sanitizer systems for hot tubs - chlorine, bromine, biquanide and silver ions + MPS (non-chlorine oxidizer). Nothing else is approved for use and any company that markets their products as "sanitizers" for pools or spas WITHOUT EPA registration is in violation of federal law. If they don't market their systems as sanitizers then they are required by law to state this and direct the consumer to using their system IN CONJUNCTION WITH an approved sanitizer.
 
Thanks Joyfulnoise. Like I said, I want to keep the power of my jacuzzi. I don't like most hotel combined hot tub/pool combos because they are wimpy.
Pooldv, I read that article. What is the diff between oxidation and sanitization and disinfecting? Is it all for killing the same bacteria and viruses?

Thanks,
Repairman
 
repairman said:
Thanks Joyfulnoise. Like I said, I want to keep the power of my jacuzzi. I don't like most hotel combined hot tub/pool combos because they are wimpy.
Pooldv, I read that article. What is the diff between oxidation and sanitization and disinfecting? Is it all for killing the same bacteria and viruses?

Thanks,
Repairman
Click to expand...

Chlorine is both an oxidizer AND a sanitizer (disinfectant). An oxidizer is a chemical that essentially destroys the chemical bonds of other compounds. So, for example, chlorine will destroy ammonia by reacting with it and forming chloramines. Chlorine can also oxidize the chemical bonds in organic compounds (like oils, urea, etc) and break them up into smaller sub-units. A sanitizer is a disinfectant which, in it's simplest sense, is just a chemical compound that destroys the ability of a biological pathogen to infect or replicate. So chlorine in water has two main forms - hypochlorous acid (HOCl) and hypochlorite anion (OCl-). The hypochlorous acid is a bent molecule (looks like Mickey-Mouse ears) that looks and acts a lot like a water molecule (also a bent molecule with a Mickey-mouse structure). Biological entities (like bacteria) will take up hypochlorous acid the same way it takes up water BUT they key difference is that hypochlorous acid, once inside the cell, will destroy critical intracellular enzymes and organelles necessary for the pathogen to replicate and survive thus inactivating it. With viruses, the chlorine typically reacts with the outer capsid protein envelope and destroys the ability of the viral receptors to attach to and enter host cells thus inactivating it.
 

Enjoying this content?

Support TFP with a donation.

Give Support
^I'm gonna let Matt answer that one but I expect like everything the difference is in proportion to scale ;)

But I did want to chime in about your original question. Your comment about wanting the power of the jacuzzi jets would lead me to believe you use your hot tub therapeutically. I would personally be very disinclined to combine the pool and hot tub, especially is seasonally you hav periods where its too cold to use the pool.

Apart from wasted energy costs, which I suspect would be substantial in CA, overall I see nothing but inefficiencies in attempting to integrate the two.

For example, on my little sport jacuzzi, it takes a 2 HP pump to heat and circulate my water, which I keep at 104 yearround for hydrotherapy, using a 5" thick custom cover (to manage snow load in winter.) Meanwhile, my 24,000 gallon pool only needs a 1 Hp pump for its circulation needs. More is not better in pumps, generally, in that you need to size the pump to the task for efficiency.

While I'm far from a hydraulics expert and can barely manage to figure out head in a pump curve, I can't see any way in which to make sense of configuring the plumbing of each system in a way that would make any sense. I'm not even really a fan on deliberately-built and integrated systems, let alone trying to bring a stand-alone on board.

So my vote for heat and power in your case is to keep the systems separate. Its also more practical in terms of ultimate leaks/repairs/structural maintenance.
 
repairman said:
Yes, thanks Matt. If Hypochlorous acid does that to bacteria, doesn't it do that to us too? Don't we absorb it into our cells as well?
Click to expand...

Yes, if you were a single-celled organism then I would be worried. However, the human body is an infinitely more complex and sophisticated organism than bacteria, algae or viri. The human skin, the largest organ in the body, is composed of multiple layers which regulate the transfer of chemicals to and from the environment as well as protects the body from disease. The outermost layer, the stratum corneum, is a multilayered structure of dead skin cells, long chain fatty acids, cholesterol and wax-like lipids. This layer is highly resistant to most chemicals and protects the body against dehydration. As well, the human body expresses many different anti-oxidant compounds, two of which are Vitamin C and beta-carotene, as well as a huge array of enzymes capable of neutralizing or destroying most chemical compounds (This article has a brief discussion of both exogenous and endogenous anti-oxidant compounds in humans). Anti-oxidants will completely neutralize hypochlorous acid before it has any chance to damage cells by basically reducing the chlorine to chloride (salt) which the body then easily gets rid of. Finally, the scales here are very different - you are a being composed of trillions of cells swimming in a pool of water with chlorine in it at part-per-million levels of concentration. There is not nearly enough chlorine in the water to do any significant damage to your body. A single celled organism is just that - one single cell. Once that cell is exposed to chlorine, it has little chance of survival.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Thread Status
Hello , This thread has been inactive for over 60 days. New postings here are unlikely to be seen or responded to by other members. For better visibility, consider Starting A New Thread.
Top Bottom
Back
Jump to latest Follow Reply