Seasoned pool owner

[15 year pool owner]

New to the site. I’ve had a pool for most of my life even growing up. Installed our first in 1981. I see lots of negative on PermaSalt we switched ours a few years ago after lots of research and knowing that cooper kills bacteria it’s funny because we use a cooper cleaner to kill COVID 19 at work. But most people I see aren’t checking chemicals?!? Even the pool store that sold the thing to us said to check all chemicals as it’s important to keep your pool balanced still. We keep everything WNL including cooper. No issues with green hair, or algae since I figured out the proper setting on the PermaSalt is 2 for our pool size. But I don’t use their crazy expensive chemicals I use regular shock (powder) and only shock as needed not every other week. I use the same chemicals I used before as theirs are the same ingredients just a name on the package. In all honesty I found I don’t spend as much on chemicals using less but keeping everything balanced still. I see lots of miss information on PermaSalt on here. Guessing because they’ve not used it and don’t understand they still must maintain balanced chemicals. Yes cooper is an excellent source to kill viruses and bacteria but it doesn’t do this alone. You still need chlorine. It why they have you add chlorine to your pool.

 

[Donldson]

Where do we begin?

Nope, copper doesn't kill viruses and bacteria in the amount found in a pool. Honestly I doubt the stuff you're using at work is killing viruses at a rate necessary to disinfect either.

No, your pool is not sanitary just because you load it up with copper and dump some calcium hypochlorite in once a week.

No, there is no misinformation on Permasalt here, just because what we say doesn't jive with their sales materials and your own opinions on the subject don't make us incorrect.

No, the Permasalt system is probably not cheaper than TFPC and definitely not better for the health of your pool and you.

No, owning a pool for 15 years doesn't mean someone understands water chemistry. We'd be happy to explore what you do and don't know, but I have a hunch you're only here to push your opinion of copper. Copper is one of the worst things you can add to a pool to kill algae. And yes, killing algae is the only thing it's doing in your pool. Zero sanitation effect. There are far better things you can add to the water to prevent algae, but even those pale in contrast to properly using chlorine.

And to quote one of our mods:

We base our pool care system on accurate testing and only adding what the pool needs, when it needs it. To do that we advocate that every pool owner buy and use an accurate test kit.

Throughout TFP, you will read that we suggest certain levels that good science and practical experience has taught us fall within safe ranges.

Further reading of posts here will draw you to the inescapable conclusion that these guidelines work.......in thousands and thousands of pools worldwide. Our goal is to teach pool owners what has been proven to work time and time again and then let them use that information to their benefit.

You may or may not agree with what we teach, nor choose to advocate these methods, that is your choice.

Contrary to what many believe, TFP does not exist to discuss ALL methods of pool care, but a singular method that has come to be known as Trouble Free Pool care. It involves accurate self testing of your pool water and only adding what the pool needs. We want pool owners to understand that "traditional" methods of pool care as taught by many pool stores are often adding things to your pool that you really don't need. From CYA in stabilized pool products to the UV and ozone in the "lower chlorine" methods we feel you don't want or need them.

We are not here to discuss other methods like natural pool care and other methods like Baqua or Bromine are discussed, but we try to explain that TFP methods are easier and less expensive.

 

[jseyfert3]

I maintained my 15,000 Intex pool crystal clear, clearer than any other pool I’ve ever seen in person (though this is completely normal for TFP pools). Not a hint of algae all summer. All thanks to the advice I got here, for free, from people not selling anything.

What did I need to do this? Liquid chlorine, muriatic acid, and some CYA added at the start of the year and when we got rain and the pool overflowed. Oh, and a good test kit. That’s it. Nothing else. No high priced chemicals. No copper or other minerals. At the peak with the hottest temps and sunlight in the middle of summer and a fairly new fill I was adding about 2 gallons of liquid chlorine and a gallon of acid a week, a grand total of $12 a week in chemicals. As the TA dropped causing the pH rise to slow down, acid additions dropped way off, and as we got out of the peak of summer chlorine additions dropped as well.

 

[NCMike]

I use to train people on root cause analysis in a manufacturing environment. One of the first steps was to teach them the "5 whys". Where if you have a problem you ask why 5 times to drill down to the root cause. I feel like you on why #2 where if you would keep drilling down you would see what they are teaching here. (you can also replace why with how)

1. Why is my pool green? Because algae
2. How do I get rid of algae? Copper, algaecides, (insert any pool store potion here).

You chose Copper and this is where you stopped, but try to keep going...

3. Why do I have to keep adding Copper? Because algae keeps growing
4. How do I prevent algae from growing to begin with? Keep enough residual sanitizer in the pool to prevent it.(Chlorine)
5. How do I do this so its simple, easy and just works? Follow TFP

The last question wasn't technically needed but you get the point. You don't need Copper or any other algae killer if there is no algae growing to begin with. Keep enough Chlorine in the pool and your Copper becomes unnecessary. And that's what this site teaches. there are a lot of unnecessary things that are sold at the pool store and online. Only use what you need based off of your on test results.

 

[JJ_Tex]

I use to train people on root cause analysis in a manufacturing environment. One of the first steps was to teach them the "5 whys". Where if you have a problem you ask why 5 times to drill down to the root cause.

Very good analogy. You even had me busting out paper to do a fishbone diagram for a second... until I realized it is Sunday and I'm not at work.

 

[skimmerswimmer]

If I were God, I would cure the ignorant, misinformed, and misguided with critical thinking and wisdom.

I use to train people on root cause analysis in a manufacturing environment. One of the first steps was to teach them the "5 whys". Where if you have a problem you ask why 5 times to drill down to the root cause. I feel like you on why #2 where if you would keep drilling down you would see what they are teaching here. (you can also replace why with how)

1. Why is my pool green? Because algae
2. How do I get rid of algae? Copper, algaecides, (insert any pool store potion here).

You chose Copper and this is where you stopped, but try to keep going...

3. Why do I have to keep adding Copper? Because algae keeps growing
4. How do I prevent algae from growing to begin with? Keep enough residual sanitizer in the pool to prevent it.(Chlorine)
5. How do I do this so its simple, easy and just works? Follow TFP

The last question wasn't technically needed but you get the point. You don't need Copper or any other algae killer if there is no algae growing to begin with. Keep enough Chlorine in the pool and your Copper becomes unnecessary. And that's what this site teaches. there are a lot of unnecessary things that are sold at the pool store and online. Only use what you need based off of your on test results.

I was a Quality Manager and internal quality auditor in a pharmaceutical and electronics manufacturing environment for many years. ISO9001, GMPs, etc.

Your post brought back some bad memories. The life of a Quality Manager is nothing but problems, all day, every day. Glad I eventually went into I.T.
lol

 

[NCMike]

If I were God, I would cure the ignorant, misinformed, and misguided with critical thinking and wisdom.


I was a Quality Manager and internal quality auditor in a pharmaceutical and electronics manufacturing environment for many years. ISO9001, GMPs, etc.

Your post brought back some bad memories. The life of a Quality Manager is nothing but problems, all day, every day. Glad I eventually went into I.T.
lol

Haha, I can relate. I was hired right out of college into pharmaceutical manufacturing during the middle of an FDA audit at the plant that went very very badly. Part of their responses to the FDA was getting a bunch of us Six Sigma Black Belt certified which transitioned to Lean manufacturing certification. I literally spent the next 10 years making a career out of responding to FDA 483s and warning letters and managing the action items that came from them in the plant. I finally quit, started my own business and can now afford my own pool which brings me here!

 

[skimmerswimmer]

Haha, I can relate. I was hired right out of college into pharmaceutical manufacturing during the middle of an FDA audit at the plant that went very very badly. Part of their responses to the FDA was getting a bunch of us Six Sigma Black Belt certified which transitioned to Lean manufacturing certification. I literally spent the next 10 years making a career out of responding to FDA 483s and warning letters and managing the action items that came from them in the plant. I finally quit, started my own business and can now afford my own pool which brings me here!

Awesome story! Congratulations on your success!