Sanity check before installing Pentair IntelliCenter on my own

[iPenguin]

Want to tackle installing the IntelliCenter myself because quotes to install were outrageous. I know I void the warranty by doing it myself which is why I want to ensure I'm on the right path before embarking. I figure if done right, it will outlast the year warranty.

I read through the manuals of the equipment and the IntelliCenter Quick Reference/Information Guide. With that I did my best to formulate what I think is a sound plan of attack. I was planning to use GFCI breakers on all equipment that touches water. There are no protections in the subpanel. Please let me know your thoughts.

My equipment is as follows:

• Pentair IntelliFlo VSR (Filter pump)
• Pentair SuperFlo (Water feature)
• Pentair MasterTemp 400
• Hayward Max-Flo XL (Spa pump)
• Unknown blower - Will likely replace with Air Supply Silencer 1 hp

Powering the IntelliCenter / Pool Lights / GFCI Outlet: I didn't see any notes requiring a GFCI here. Therefore, I was going to grab a Siemens Q2020 to provide 120v from one of the poles. The other pole I was going to connect to the GFCI outside that will be mounted to the case. From the GFCI, run lines to a relay that will control the pool lights. This will provide GFCI protections and how I interpreted the MyAZPools did it. Note: I do have a 4 pole Eaton that I can reuse to save a little bit of money. Let me know if I should reuse that instead.

Filter Pump: Use Siemens QF220 GFCI breaker or The Pentair PFG PA220GF to filter pump to provide constant power. Use a serial cable to connect to the RS-485 from the pump to the Comm Port J4 on the IntelliCenter. I found these on Amazon (Link), that I think will work? Although, they aren't the colors the manual calls for, it shouldn't be an issue as long as they are wired correctly on both ends.

Water Feature: Use Siemens QF220 GFCI breaker or The Pentair PFG PA220GF to connect to relay. Relay to pump

Spa Equipment: Use Siemens QF220 GFCI breaker or The Pentair PFG PA220GF to connect to relay. Connect both Spa Pump and Blower to the same relay???

Heater: Use Siemens QF220 GFCI breaker or The Pentair PFG PA220GF. However, I cannot find any conclusive notes, but I assume it would be similar to the filter pump where it needs constant power. The manual says to use RS-485 to communicate between the units. However, according to this post, there is only a fireman's switch on the heater which will go to the J2 - Gas Heater terminal on the IntelliCenter???

Actuators: Appears to be self explanatory. Match Return and Intake to Return and Suction sides. I do need an additional for the heater bypass valve. This will go under Valve A

Temps: Air probe stays near the low voltage exit on the IntelliCenter. Water is between filter pump and filter itself.

Edit: TLDR of my setup for future researchers. Disclaimer, I'm no expert

I went with 3 Siemens QF220 GFCI, 2 Siemens Q120, and 1 Siemens QSPD2A065. I attached some photos of my IntelliCenter.

1st QF220 goes to Line side of the Filter Pump relay.
With the Pentair IntelliFlo VSF connected to Line side as well.
Cable from Amazon used to splice RS-485 to J4 on the IntelliCenter.

Jumped the Load side of the Filter Pump relay to the Line side of the 1st relay.
Line side of 1st relay also connects the Pentair Master Temp 400.
Same Amazon cable to connect Fireman's Switch.

2nd QF220 goes to Line side of relay 2.
Spa pump on Load side of relay 2.

3rd QF220 goes to Line side of relay 3.
Spa blower on Load side of relay 3.
Jumped Line side of relay 3 to Line side of relay 4.
Water feature to Load side of relay 4.

1st Q120 powers the IntelliCenter.

2nd Q120 connects to Line side of GFCI receptacle.
Load side of the GFCI to Line side of relay 5.
Load of relay 5 to the pool lights. This provide GFCI protection to the pool lights.

 

[ajw22]

Here is my thread on my IntelliCenter install...

Replacing an Aqualink with an IntelliCenter

This thread is for me to work out what I do in upgrading my 20 year old pool equipment. Jandy RS8 automation, 1.5HP SS Pentair pump, Pentair Mastertemp 400 NG heater, IC40 SWG, typical pool/spa combo with spa spillover, Pentair JVA actuators on suctions & return Jandy valves, 1HP pump for spa...

www.troublefreepool.com

 

[generessler]

I can provide a data point. My controls are Aqualink, but pumps are Pentair with a 3-year-old self-installed Intelliflo filter pump. Pay attention to total current through the breaker that powers Intelliflo. There are quite a few reports including mine of GFI breakers tripping for no good reason. Supposedly electrical noise that the pump makes confuses the GFI. For me the solution was rearranging circuits for less then 70% of rated amps through the VSP breaker. Also switched to the special (very expensive) Pentair GFI breaker meant for Intellflo. It's a normal Siemens breaker with slightly higher trigger current. No problems since then.

One other thing to think through is what happens with every possible combination of breaker trips. In my case there's a booster pump that will overheat if the VSP breaker triggers and its breaker doesn't. I added a relay to prevent this, but then of course it never happened.

 

[iPenguin]

Here is my thread on my IntelliCenter install...

Replacing an Aqualink with an IntelliCenter

This thread is for me to work out what I do in upgrading my 20 year old pool equipment. Jandy RS8 automation, 1.5HP SS Pentair pump, Pentair Mastertemp 400 NG heater, IC40 SWG, typical pool/spa combo with spa spillover, Pentair JVA actuators on suctions & return Jandy valves, 1HP pump for spa...

www.troublefreepool.com

Thank you! This is extremely helpful with bridging some of the gaps.

1. Which breakers did you settle with, Siemens QF220 or Pentair PA220GF? I already ordered Siemens, I'm hoping I'll be ok.

I was considering going from the breaker directly to the filter pump and heater to be always powered. Seeing as you have more experience, I'll go with your method of going breaker to relay. So the below should work just fine right?

1. 1st 240v GFCI Breaker to Filter Pump relay - Line side
2. Jump Load side of Filter Pump relay to Line side of relay 1
3. Load side of relay 1 connects to Pool Heater (One of the posts in your thread suggests this and it makes sense. It will ensure that the Heater can only turn on while the Pump is running)
4. Pool Heater is controlled via Fireman's Switch from IntelliCenter
5. 2nd 240v GFCI Breaker to Line side relay 2
6. Jump Load side of relay 2 to Line relay 3
7. Load side of relay 2 to Spa Pump
8. Load side of relay 3 to Spa Blower
9. 3rd 240v GFCI Breaker to Line side of relay 4
10. Load side of relay 4 to Water Feature Pump
11. 120v (Siemens Q120 non-GFCI) to GFCI Outlet installed on the side of the box.
12. Load side of GFCI Outlet to Line side relay 5 (I'll need to buy this additional relay)
13. Load side of relay 5 to Lights (The GFCI Outlet should provide GFCI protections to the lights)

I'm debating on whether I need the Siemens FS140 for Surge Protection. I understand the piece of mind aspect. Maybe something I visit later.

Should I run the Spa Pump and Blower on the same relay to save some money and not need the extra relay? Why did you separate yours?

I can provide a data point. My controls are Aqualink, but pumps are Pentair with a 3-year-old self-installed Intelliflo filter pump. Pay attention to total current through the breaker that powers Intelliflo. There are quite a few reports including mine of GFI breakers tripping for no good reason. Supposedly electrical noise that the pump makes confuses the GFI. For me the solution was rearranging circuits for less then 70% of rated amps through the VSP breaker. Also switched to the special (very expensive) Pentair GFI breaker meant for Intellflo. It's a normal Siemens breaker with slightly higher trigger current. No problems since then.

One other thing to think through is what happens with every possible combination of breaker trips. In my case there's a booster pump that will overheat if the VSP breaker triggers and its breaker doesn't. I added a relay to prevent this, but then of course it never happened.

Thank you for your input. I ended up ordering Siemens QF220 instead of the Pentair PA220GF. I hope that doesn't bite me in the rear.

 

[ajw22]

If you run the spa pump and the blower on the same relay they will always operate together. I often want the spa jets and not the air bubbles. I would put them on separate relays.

I would not put the spa pump and the blower on the same CB.
I suspect you are less likely to be running your water features pump and the spa blower at the same time. So share the CB between those devices.

@mas985 what do you think about the Hayward Max-Flo XL for a spa jet pump versus a high head pump?

 

[ajw22]

Which model pump are you getting for the spa jets?

 

[ajw22]

What water feature(s) will you have?

Consider a water features pump instead of the Superflo pump...

WaterFall Specialty Pumps

The Pentair Waterfall Specialty Pool Water Features Pump has a closed impeller, low-head pump ideal for water features such as fountains, waterfalls and other special pool features.

www.pentair.com

 

[mas985]

@mas985 what do you think about the Hayward Max-Flo XL for a spa jet pump versus a high head pump?

It depends on the number of jets, the jet size and the supporting plumbing (diameter and length) as well as the exact pump model so I would need those details to give a definitive answer.

But the Hayward Max-Flo XL (non-VS) can no longer be manufactured at higher THP. Although they show the SP2315X20EXP on their web site, legally, they are not allowed to manufacture that pump anymore as the HHP exceeds 0.711.

Hayward Pool & Spa Pumps | Inyo Pools - INYOPools.com

Explore a wide range of Hayward pool & spa pumps at Inyo Pools for superior performance and reliability. From energy-efficient models to high-capacity options, find the perfect pump to keep your pool water crystal clear and inviting. Elevate your pool experience with Hayward pumps today.

www.inyopools.com

Or were you referencing the MaxFlo XL VS but even that comes in several different flavors so the exact model number is necessary.

But either way, you are not going to be able to support many jets with any of those pumps and to go larger, you will need to go with a VS pump.

 

[ajw22]

Never mind. I got derailed and thought this was a new pool install. It looks like an existing pool with those pumps.

 

[iPenguin]

If you run the spa pump and the blower on the same relay they will always operate together. I often want the spa jets and not the air bubbles. I would put them on separate relays.

I would not put the spa pump and the blower on the same CB.
I suspect you are less likely to be running your water features pump and the spa blower at the same time. So share the CB between those devices.

@mas985 what do you think about the Hayward Max-Flo XL for a spa jet pump versus a high head pump?

View attachment 612627

This is my first pool. That does make sense I would likely not have the 2 on at the same time. When do most people run their water feature? Does it run while the pool is in use, but off when the spa is in use?

Filter pump and Heater on the same breaker ok?

What water feature(s) will you have?

Consider a water features pump instead of the Superflo pump...

WaterFall Specialty Pumps

The Pentair Waterfall Specialty Pool Water Features Pump has a closed impeller, low-head pump ideal for water features such as fountains, waterfalls and other special pool features.

www.pentair.com

It's a small pool of water that falls into a half moon spa. I think they may have used a bigger pump because the pad is on the other side of the house which is about 50-60 feet away.

Never mind. I got derailed and thought this was a new pool install. It looks like an existing pool with those pumps.

Sorry, if I made it seem like a new build. I'm just using equipment that pre-exists. I will look into replacing the blower as it is old and falling apart.

 

[ajw22]

This is my first pool. That does make sense I would likely not have the 2 on at the same time. When do most people run their water feature? Does it run while the pool is in use, but off when the spa is in use?

People run them until the novelty wears off. Unless you have kids who like to play in them water features soon get unused.

Filter pump and Heater on the same breaker ok?

Yes. Heater pulls very little amps.

It's a small pool of water that falls into a half moon spa. I think they may have used a bigger pump because the pad is on the other side of the house which is about 50-60 feet away.

It does not sound like you will be running it when people are in the spa running the spa jets and blowers.

 

[mas985]

I would still be interested in the pump model# and the number of jets. That is a very small pump for spa jets.

 

[iPenguin]

People run them until the novelty wears off. Unless you have kids who like to play in them water features soon get unused.



Yes. Heater pulls very little amps.



It does not sound like you will be running it when people are in the spa running the spa jets and blowers.

Oh, its not even big enough to play in unless you're a baby. I posted a photo to give you an idea. I currently manually turn it on once every few days so it's not just standing water.

Which breakers did you use for your setup?

I would still be interested in the pump model# and the number of jets. That is a very small pump for spa jets.

I'll post a picture below just in case. The only numbers I see that would indicate a model are C48D31A04 and SP2707z1M. There are 8 jets about .5 or .75 opening. The pump is about 40-50 feet from the spa.

Also, I notice I have the board for Aux 5-9, but not the connectors? I purchased the 521907. I don't see the connects anywhere in the box If I have to buy another board, I may just have the pool likes wired to a separate switch outside of the IntelliCenter.

 

[mas985]

I'll post a picture below just in case. The only numbers I see that would indicate a model are C48D31A04 and SP2707z1M. There are 8 jets about .5 or .75 opening. The pump is about 40-50 feet from the spa.

That is the SP2307X10 which is a very small pump for 8 jets, the jets must be very weak. With that size pump, you should only be running 2x3/8" jets.

Also, note, that jets typically have much smaller nozzles than 1/2"so I think what you are giving me is the eyeball size and not the nozzle size. The nozzle is deep within the spa wall:

 

[ajw22]

Which breakers did you use for your setup?

I have three Pentair PAG220GF breakers for my main filter pump, spa pump, and cleaner pump; two 120V Siemens breakers for the lights and IntelliCenter PCB, and a 220V Siemens breaker for the FirstSurge protector.

Also, I notice I have the board for Aux 5-9, but not the connectors? I purchased the 521907. I don't see the connects anywhere in the box If I have to buy another board, I may just have the pool likes wired to a separate switch outside of the IntelliCenter.

This is where Pentair gets you and their pricing is ridiculous.

The base IntelliCenter board is an i5P. Five relays, pool only.

Pentair then has slide on "personality boards" that expand the system for 8 or 10 relays in Pool only or Pool & Spa flavors.

You bought an i5PS system and have a personality board with no additional relay sockets and spa support. You need a i8PS personality board for 3 more relay sockets. You can replace your i5PS board with an i8PS (521968Z) board for the small sum of $799.77. And then you need to buy 1 to 3 relays.

IntelliCenter Personality Kits & Expansion Cards

 

[iPenguin]

That is the SP2307X10 which is a very small pump for 8 jets, the jets must be very weak. With that size pump, you should only be running 2x3/8" jets.

Also, note, that jets typically have much smaller nozzles than 1/2"so I think what you are giving me is the eyeball size and not the nozzle size. The nozzle is deep within the spa wall:

View attachment 612664

Thank you for the info. Just for future reference, what pump would you suggest?

Additionally, what kind of blower would you recommend? I was looking at the Air Supply Silencer 1 hp.

I have three Pentair PAG220GF breakers for my main filter pump, spa pump, and cleaner pump; two 120V Siemens breakers for the lights and IntelliCenter PCB, and a 220V Siemens breaker for the FirstSurge protector.

View attachment 612666


This is where Pentair gets you and their pricing is ridiculous.

The base IntelliCenter board is an i5P. Five relays, pool only.

Pentair then has slide on "personality boards" that expand the system for 8 or 10 relays in Pool only or Pool & Spa flavors.

You bought an i5PS system and have a personality board with no additional relay sockets and spa support. You need a i8PS personality board for 3 more relay sockets. You can replace your i5PS board with an i8PS (521968Z) board for the small sum of $799.77. And then you need to buy 1 to 3 relays.

IntelliCenter Personality Kits & Expansion Cards

View attachment 612667

Well, bummer.. I guess I'll skip running the lights from IntelliCenter and just run them from a Kasa Switch.

Just a thought, if one learned to solder, could I potentially solder a head on it?

If all else looks good to you with my plan, I'll just proceed with that.

 

[ajw22]

Just a thought, if one learned to solder, could I potentially solder a head on it?

Relay connectors are 2.5mm-pitch 2-pin female JST XH-style connector.

It may work or it may not.

I would see if someone like @ogdento can solder it for you.

 

[mas985]

Thank you for the info. Just for future reference, what pump would you suggest?

A fairly large VS pump such as the Intelliflo is a fairly safe choice but to confirm, I need the nozzle diameter and pipe diameter/length to/from the spa.

Additionally, what kind of blower would you recommend? I was looking at the Air Supply Silencer 1 hp.

I don't have a blower for my spa because the setup I have does not require it. So not all spas need a blower.

One reason your jets might need a blower is because the pump is currently too small. I would wait until you replace the spa pump before choosing a blower. You may not need it.

Another reason your spa may need a blower is that the spa is uphill from the air inlet so water will collect in the air pipe and may need help clearing. But again, I would wait until you replace the pump to see if you really need it.

What is the elevation of the spa water relative to the air inlet pipe where it comes out of the ground? If you open the pump basket lid, does water come out or do you have valves that prevent that.

 

[iPenguin]

Relay connectors are 2.5mm-pitch 2-pin female JST XH-style connector.

It may work or it may not.

I would see if someone like @ogdento can solder it for you.

I'll give it a try. Going to youtube the heck out of it .

Did you do anything with the Bonding Lugs on the lower right exterior of the box?

A fairly large VS pump such as the Intelliflo is a fairly safe choice but to confirm, I need the nozzle diameter and pipe diameter/length to/from the spa.



I don't have a blower for my spa because the setup I have does not require it. So not all spas need a blower.

One reason your jets might need a blower is because the pump is currently too small. I would wait until you replace the spa pump before choosing a blower. You may not need it.

Another reason your spa may need a blower is that the spa is uphill from the air inlet so water will collect in the air pipe and may need help clearing. But again, I would wait until you replace the pump to see if you really need it.

What is the elevation of the spa water relative to the air inlet pipe where it comes out of the ground? If you open the pump basket lid, does water come out or do you have valves that prevent that.

The spa water is about 1 foot above the ground +/- a little bit with the eyelets 7 inches below the water line. Distance from the spa to the pump and blower are 50 feet. There are no check valves for the spa equipment. I know the equipment uses 2 inch piping. The blower is 32 inches off the ground.

How do I find out the nozzle diameter?

 

[ajw22]

Did you do anything with the Bonding Lugs on the lower right exterior of the box?

Connect it to your bonding grid.