Sand Pump vs Cartridge for longer term re-usability vs prefabs? GPH calc? 1speed vs 2

[theskyisthelimit99]

I have an 18x52" ultra frame as of now (build link with pics/descriptions in sig).. long term ill probably stick with this pool at least 3 more years, then maybe move to say a 22 or 26 foot or bigger pool..

My pool came with the intex 2100 gph 0.5hp single speed sand pump..

I'm about to replace this pump with a 4500 gph sky1639 best choice products 19" sand pump that is 1hp for $239.

In reading up on this, though, i'm wondering long term if this solution is the best and most efficient solution. I think from what i've read you can get the sand tank separate from the pump and add on a good pump.. however expensive.. ie: hayward pumps.

I also read that 2 speed pumps can reduce the electric consumption. I also dont see it much, but swear i had read that earth filters were the better bet all around?

Any suggestions for a more long term solution that can work for any size i may jump to.. i'm guessing the 4500 gph will do the job "okay" even in say a 26ish size pool.. maybe for now ill stick with the pending best choice but later on switch to a more modular setup?

Thanks for any suggestions in this area.

 

[theskyisthelimit99]

Re: Alternative Sand Pump (or earth filters) for longer term re-usability vs prefabs?

I was thinking maybe (later on), getting a 24" sand pump like this one (if not an earth filter instead, still unclear on which is easier, less maintenance)...

$315 S244 Hayward (filter only) (as opposed to a 19" like i'm upgrading to)

and then adding on the pump separately later like this one:

Super Flow Matrix 2 speed hayward $328 1.5 hp (or 1hp for $263)
**the 1hp is about 43GPM or 2580 GPH, unsure at full speed? unsure the 1.5hp gpm/gph specs

Combined the cost is around $645 (yikes)
The cost might be comparable to using an Earth filter system?

 

[Smolder]

Re: Alternative Sand Pump (or earth filters) for longer term re-usability vs prefabs?

I just did the same upgrade. I bought the Hayward power-flo LX 1.5 hp for $175. Also bought the Hayward S166t for $165. Considerably less than than $645 and I feel this to be a good setup for any size intex pool. I am just getiing ready to tear down my old 18x48 and put up a new one, hard plumb it, and install skimmer in sidewall. Went with the same size due to pavers already installed. The new intex pools have some construction upgrades I liked, also.
By the way, great post with the build link. i have an almost identical setup with the deck, only I have a confer ladder instead of the stairs.

 

[theskyisthelimit99]

Re: Alternative Sand Pump (or earth filters) for longer term re-usability vs prefabs?

I just did the same upgrade. I bought the Hayward power-flo LX 1.5 hp for $175. Also bought the Hayward S166t for $165. Considerably less than than $645 and I feel this to be a good setup for any size intex pool. I am just getiing ready to tear down my old 18x48 and put up a new one, hard plumb it, and install skimmer in sidewall. Went with the same size due to pavers already installed. The new intex pools have some construction upgrades I liked, also.
By the way, great post with the build link. i have an almost identical setup with the deck, only I have a confer ladder instead of the stairs.

Thanks for that info.. looks like that pump is only single speed at that price? I wonder how the electric bill would benefit from a 2 speed.. what sand tank did you end up buying, ie: 19, 24 etc?

So i see the SP1580X15 for $185 single speed

and then Hayward S210T 1.5HP GPM / H ? 21" for $239 or 18" for $209.

Trying to compare apples to apples, thats roughly $239 + $185 for a 21" $424 (vs 19" with best choice brand and $220 at the price i got it, nearly double)

Or this 21"/1.5 hp combo that is $400 (but with possible issues).. its listed at 2650 GPH, makes me wonder how the best choice 1hp can be 4500?

Unsure what the combined rated GPH would be for tis 1.5hp setup?

 

[Smolder]

Re: Alternative Sand Pump (or earth filters) for longer term re-usability vs prefabs?

Yes, the pump is the SP1580X15, and it is a single speed. I'm not too concerned with the electricity savings as I only run it 6 hours a day. (using a saltwater generator). I actually looked back and realized I got the pump for $135 from e-bay. The sand filter is the S166T Pro series. Holds 100lbs of sand. $165 from e-bay.

 

[theskyisthelimit99]

Re: Alternative Sand Pump (or earth filters) for longer term re-usability vs prefabs?

Yes, the pump is the SP1580X15, and it is a single speed. I'm not too concerned with the electricity savings as I only run it 6 hours a day. (using a saltwater generator). I actually looked back and realized I got the pump for $135 from e-bay. The sand filter is the S166T Pro series. Holds 100lbs of sand. $165 from e-bay.

Ah ok i see.. maybe i'm "overrunning" mine.. i run it from 7am till 10pm daily.. even then i still have a lot of surface "filth" despite the hayward skimmer i just added.. hoping this newer pump will increase efficiency plus allow me to at least partially open up the second suction valve, though in the end it might be poor circulation on the surface and still need a surface skimmer laying in the pool

 

[theskyisthelimit99]

Re: Alternative Sand Pump (or earth filters) for longer term re-usability vs prefabs?

My Best choice products one arrived today..

The more i think about it though, the more i think i may just return it unused and go for the 1.5hp single speed hayward + 21" tank. Only concern is that i see alot of people have had a seam in the tank go, usually after 2 years, or a lateral become cracked and end up with sand in the pool after 5 months even, though less common than the norm.

Seems with amazon there is an assurion 3rd party warranty you can buy (edit: actually its square trade even better, for an extra $50 which adds 2 more years, 3 total).. but if bought from jet.com no options for an extended one..


All in all, it would cost around $150 more to go the Hayward route and get a 21" tank vs 19".
Also appears the GPM/GPH is based on total head of the system which is tricky to calculate, though the average seems to be 40, that would put the 1.5hp system at around 3700 GPH (unsure what head the best choice 4500gph is based on)

With either of these, looks like there is no toggle switch for power, so in my case i'd have to pull it out of the timer to backwash.. unless there is some gfi rated inline toggle switch you can wire up?

 

[Smolder]

Re: Alternative Sand Pump (or earth filters) for longer term re-usability vs prefabs?

Mine plugs into the SWG controller, which has an OFF setting on the timer. I also used to use a regular timer to control an Intex SWG I had modified. It also had an OFF setting. I think you won't have any problems with that.

 

[theskyisthelimit99]

Re: Alternative Sand Pump (or earth filters) for longer term re-usability vs prefabs?

Mine plugs into the SWG controller, which has an OFF setting on the timer. I also used to use a regular timer to control an Intex SWG I had modified. It also had an OFF setting. I think you won't have any problems with that.

Are you using the intex SWG? If so i didnt know you could plug in series? Wondering too how long the cord is.. the one that came with the intex is about 10 feet long, about the distance i need to get to the gfi outlet.
If its much shorter, not sure that using an outdoor extension cord is ideal?

The amazon/jet.com S210T93S combination unit ends up being $388 after discounts via jet.com (its about $427 shipped from amazon)

I wish there was an easy way to calculate the gpm/gph on this 1.5hp vs the 1.0 best choice just to see what is gained.. i guess depends on total head.. seems an average might be 40 feet.. based on some specs i saw this might imply 3700 gph, though i think hayward uses a 2700gph number but unknown head value

 

[theskyisthelimit99]

Re: Alternative Sand Pump (or earth filters) for longer term re-usability vs prefabs?

Mine plugs into the SWG controller, which has an OFF setting on the timer. I also used to use a regular timer to control an Intex SWG I had modified. It also had an OFF setting. I think you won't have any problems with that.

Forgot to ask, how long have you had yours.. do you just drain the tank and cover with tarp in winter, leave motor outside or disconnect and bring in? Did you use a cover during the summer on the motor part ($20 amazon).. I read it requires a cover technically?

 

[theskyisthelimit99]

Re: Sand Pump options for longer term re-usability vs prefabs? GPH calc?

My final area of concern might be on the electric bill cost for the pump.. i think hayward states 1.1 kwh for the pump, so i think at 10 hours a day thats about 300 kwh per month, which in my region might be $30 a month extra.. i think its around 900 watts when running, could be off on that figure?

I'm sure the old intex 0.5 hp pump barely drew more than 500 watts, guessing.. and a 1hp might be 25% less.. maybe it wont be a factor limiting it to 10 hours a day instead of 12 and its only on for 3.5 months out of the year on avg i think.

 

[duraleigh]

Re: Sand Pump options for longer term re-usability vs prefabs? GPH calc?

Once your pool is all clean and ready to run, I think you can operate the pump using quite a bit less hours....maybe 6, hard to say.

If so that will be the VERY best way to reduce to less than $20/month.....that's just beer money here in FL!!

 

[theskyisthelimit99]

Re: Sand Pump options for longer term re-usability vs prefabs? GPH calc?

Does anyone know the key difference between the hayward SP1593 and the LX version.. the 21" combo i bought came with the regular non LX version.

- - - Updated - - -

Once your pool is all clean and ready to run, I think you can operate the pump using quite a bit less hours....maybe 6, hard to say.

If so that will be the VERY best way to reduce to less than $20/month.....that's just beer money here in FL!!

This is true.. if 40 feet overhead, its rated at 3750 gph, so about 2 hours to turn it over once.. I do like having skimmed/clean water for swimming though and the robot to run after hours.. this is why now at least, i run at least 8am till 10pm, probably way too long even at 2100gph currently, but with the new pump, by 10am the pool should be cleaning up nicely, especially with the robot.. so by weekend swim time at least, of say 1pm, its looking good.. i'd be willing to say that i could probably set this to 10am till 8pm (like it going while in the pool too, or maybe unnecessary) and turn the pump on should i need to do anything manual after that, still about 10 hours though, best case, 11am till 6pm, not sure if this is a typical hour time frame/daytime range for most, vs overnight.

I also considered that 2 speed setup, but it sounds inefficient given the splits i have.. though 1.5hp might be overkill vs 1hp, but i was trying to future proof and allow for these two sets of dual splits.. future proof to up to 28 feet round maybe.

EDIT: i think i grasp this now.. the tank at 21" is rated for 44 GPM at 40feet overhead.. while the motor (1.5hp) is rated at 62GPM, so when you combine the 1.5 motor with the 21" tank, the best it can do is 44GPM or roughly 2650 GPH. I assume a bigger tank increases this closer to the motor rating.. this should still be better than the the intex 12" tank combined with the motor it had (assume their 2100gph was based on the motor only) UPdate.. hayward responded and said the 24" tank is what matches the 62GPM rating of the motor, but i'm guessing even with the 44 max and 21", it will still be good enough for dual suction and dual return, hopefully.

 

[Smolder]

Re: Alternative Sand Pump (or earth filters) for longer term re-usability vs prefabs?

Forgot to ask, how long have you had yours.. do you just drain the tank and cover with tarp in winter, leave motor outside or disconnect and bring in? Did you use a cover during the summer on the motor part ($20 amazon).. I read it requires a cover technically?

Had the pool 4 years.(Replacing with new this year) In the winter I just drain below inlets, add winterizing chemicals and cover with tarp. I built a little house for the motor and filter to keep sun/rain off. In the winter I flush motor with fresh water and store in shed. I'll try and post some pics. I think you'll laugh at the similarities of our deck/pool setups.

 

[theskyisthelimit99]

Re: Sand Pump options for longer term re-usability vs prefabs? GPH calc?

So I received the new hayward and the lateral assembly appears damaged I think. The two fins it stands on, one is bent inward. Both are NOT straight and same distance apart

I assume this is not normal.

If so I'm debating a return via jet.com or deal with hayward sending new lateral. I think jet may be faster and just reorder.

 

[theskyisthelimit99]

Re: Sand Pump options for longer term re-usability vs prefabs? GPH calc?

Here is a picture of the issue (has to broken i assume):

 

[theskyisthelimit99]

Re: Sand Pump options for longer term re-usability vs prefabs? GPH calc?

Since it appears I received a dud. Has me wondering despite having dual suction and returns if the 1.5 hp is overkill even future proofing to a larger pool. Concerned about the electric bill, though yea I might be better able to reduce run time but with a SWG I need 4-7 hours a day as is.

Appears hayward drops to 18" with the 1hp unless you but separately. Or maybe fretting for no reason. I did find another vendor on Amazon for the 1.5. No where locally has it. Actually one local place tried to sell me on a cartridge filter over the phone at 100 less.

I can always downgrade the pump later and get the bigger combo with the 21" to start.

 

[theskyisthelimit99]

Re: Sand Pump vs Cartdridge for longer term re-usability vs prefabs? GPH calc?

Since i had to call around to local pool shops trying to find a local supplier for the hayward sand pump/filter combo (no one had one).. i found them all recommending cartridge based systems, claiming "they dont sell many sand pumps anymore"..

Is this really the case out there? I will say, in one thread i did read someone had a cart. system that they claim they only had to take out and hose down once a year.. unsure how often they have to replace such a system.. i used to think it was yearly at $130/year.. thats a lot more than spending $26 on 200lbs of sand every 4 years.. granted without the need to backwash every 1.5-2.5 weeks depending on the size of the sand filter.

Can a hayward 1.5hp pump be used on these cartridge systems.. or do they come with their own pumps if i would later switch.. just curious thoughts..

 

[domct203]

Re: Sand Pump vs Cartdridge for longer term re-usability vs prefabs? GPH calc?

Never skimp on filter size, the bigger, the better.

There are also 2-speed, as well as variable speed (VS) pumps out there that can save you money by running at lower RPM's when applicable.

While the 1-1/2HP may be more than absolutely needed, it is not ridiculously oversized. I wanted the 1-1/2HP for when I expand my solar system up onto the roof of my garage. I also wanted the additional power to be able to run my suction side cleaner and solar together without flow/head issues.

If I find that the single speed was too expensive for me this season I will swap the pump motor for a 2-speed.

As far as sand vs cartridge, the cartridge will filter a bit finer than the sand. If that is necessary or not is personal preference as well as the debris the pool sees. With the right sized cartridge system you could go all season and only clean them once or twice. Cartridges will need to be replaced, but is taken care of can last a very long time.

Sand will last forever if the filter is properly maintained. Why do you think you will need to change it every 4 years?

I don't mind back flushing, and the water is perfectly clear to me as I use a bit of DE in my sandfilter to get finer filtration.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[theskyisthelimit99]

Re: Sand Pump vs Cartdridge for longer term re-usability vs prefabs? GPH calc?

Never skimp on filter size, the bigger, the better.

There are also 2-speed, as well as variable speed (VS) pumps out there that can save you money by running at lower RPM's when applicable.

While the 1-1/2HP may be more than absolutely needed, it is not ridiculously oversized. I wanted the 1-1/2HP for when I expand my solar system up onto the roof of my garage. I also wanted the additional power to be able to run my suction side cleaner and solar together without flow/head issues.

If I find that the single speed was too expensive for me this season I will swap the pump motor for a 2-speed.

As far as sand vs cartridge, the cartridge will filter a bit finer than the sand. If that is necessary or not is personal preference as well as the debris the pool sees. With the right sized cartridge system you could go all season and only clean them once or twice. Cartridges will need to be replaced, but is taken care of can last a very long time.

Sand will last forever if the filter is properly maintained. Why do you think you will need to change it every 4 years?

I don't mind back flushing, and the water is perfectly clear to me as I use a bit of DE in my sandfilter to get finer filtration.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Can those cartridge options use a "sand pump" like a hayward, or do they usually come bundled and you cant mix them?

I thought about the 2 speeds.. however, looking at the volume they put out in slow mode.. i wasnt sure that they could handle dual suction and dual returns (one going to the return robot) when running 8 hours a day for instance.. if i'm having troubles with an intex 2100gph 0.5 hp, not sure how the reduced speed would be any good to keep all these options going at once..

Anyone else out there running a 2 speed with multiple suction/returns and finding success at that output?
It would be nice if it would alternate randomly between slow and fast mode, thus reducing the power bill. Seems it only can toggle manually between the modes.. i think.