San Diego In Ground Pool Build w/ Pictures
- Thread starter MattM
- Start date
Some frustrations this week:
- We found at least one small leak in the gunite/plaster and have had to occasionally run a pump to keep it dry so that it can be patched
- The ground underneath the pool apparently is quite wet from all the winter rains/etc - the hydrostatic had to be shutoff if I heard correctly while we prepare for acid wash
- PB redid the plumbing somewhat to fix their own concerns about how the solar was connected...that looks better but now I'm not sure if it has become too crowded and if it is going to be a pain with regard to opening up the pump strainer basket, I'll post picture later
- The local water company apparently sets rates once/year based on usage and this month apparently is the key month, they don't have an automated way to get an exception for filling the pool, but we did submit a manual statement and hope if filters up the chain....if they up our water bill, it would go from $30/month to $90/month
- PB hasn't plumbed in the intellichem yet...we're still discussing how the acid changes the location....can't have it underneath windows or near the other equipment..we might end up building the veranda first and then plumbing the intellichem and bolting it to concrete. Oh, btw, the controller for the intellichem is quite big....seems about as big as the pump itself. Seems quite a bit to mount to the wall...
- We found at least one small leak in the gunite/plaster and have had to occasionally run a pump to keep it dry so that it can be patched
- The ground underneath the pool apparently is quite wet from all the winter rains/etc - the hydrostatic had to be shutoff if I heard correctly while we prepare for acid wash
- PB redid the plumbing somewhat to fix their own concerns about how the solar was connected...that looks better but now I'm not sure if it has become too crowded and if it is going to be a pain with regard to opening up the pump strainer basket, I'll post picture later
- The local water company apparently sets rates once/year based on usage and this month apparently is the key month, they don't have an automated way to get an exception for filling the pool, but we did submit a manual statement and hope if filters up the chain....if they up our water bill, it would go from $30/month to $90/month
- PB hasn't plumbed in the intellichem yet...we're still discussing how the acid changes the location....can't have it underneath windows or near the other equipment..we might end up building the veranda first and then plumbing the intellichem and bolting it to concrete. Oh, btw, the controller for the intellichem is quite big....seems about as big as the pump itself. Seems quite a bit to mount to the wall...
That leak seems to indicate that the water table is pretty high. I would think that the builder would want to pump water from the ground to lower the water table. I would have some concern for the hydrostatic pressure pushing up on the pool.
I would also have some concerns about the integrity of the plaster, and how well the plaster is bonded to the gunite.
I would also have some concerns about the integrity of the plaster, and how well the plaster is bonded to the gunite.
Well, this is San Diego...we're mostly a desert so pool builders usually don't have that many concerns about the water table.....still, there about 2 months each year when we have frequent rains and the soil isn't used to handling it...and we're just at the end of that so the ground is damp - especially as we've had a wetter fall than normal. Not to mention, the houses nearby are packed in relatively tight and everyone has their own irrigation and we're closer to the bottom of a hill than on top of it so we get some runoff from other houses which are supposed to drain out into the street to go to lower houses. When we did the excavation, there were some moist areas but nothing too wet...and a soil report was commissioned along which required an engineer to evaluate the ground. They didn't expect any issues.
Curious what you mean by "integrity of the plaster and how well it is bonded to the gunite" -- I assume you mean whether it has had a chance to dry fully before the pool being filled? Or that the gunite being damp in some areas means they shouldn't have plastered? I know that they did warm up areas of the gunite with flame/etc when installing.
I had water coming in through my gunite before plaster, it held things up for at least a month waiting for it to diminish. At time of plasteriang they drilled / chisled the areas and filled with hydrolic cement which completly stopped the flow, they acid washed the next day & started filling. I never could see any water leaching through where the holes were after plaster, and then it was full by the next day.
When bonding the plaster to the gunite the amount of water is important for a good bond and for the plaster to cure properly. If there is water coming in from the back, it could weaken the plaster and the bond to the underlying gunite.
Matt those plumbing changes look much better. Can you post a picture of that automated valve down low in the center that's there for the solar? Just need to see one more detail.
Try taking the pump lid off and see how that goes. That does look like it could be a bit tight...I wonder why they moved the filter?
Try taking the pump lid off and see how that goes. That does look like it could be a bit tight...I wonder why they moved the filter?
So, around 3pm we had guys from both the plastering company and the pool builder out here to discuss....they cut holes into the gunite and pebble sheen where the main leak is and filled it up using some kind of quick sealing cement with what looks like pebble plaster on top...there is a plastic tube coming out which they will remove using a diver later...they said the other area that looked like a leak was damp but wasn't passing water and I shouldn't worry about it - I'm not sure how much to worry at this point. The pool builder says that everything is fine. The pool is filling up now and should be full by noon tomorrow as we're using two hoses. I'll run a bucket test the first few days and verify. The warranty from the plastering company guarantees no leaks for the first 10 years, and our contract with the pool builder guarantees no leaks for as long as we own the pool and fixes to any appearance or other functional areas of the pool for the first 3 years.
Of course, a lot depends on just how much water is seeping through. If the wall is slightly damp, then probably not too much to worry about. If there is a steady stream of flowing water, then I would be more concerned. I think that the ideal would have been to deal with the water by pumping water from the ground to eliminate the water table.
It sounds like the company is willing to back up their work, so that's reassuring. The bucket test is a good idea.
It sounds like the company is willing to back up their work, so that's reassuring. The bucket test is a good idea.
There was a build thread from a guy in Petaluma who had a similar problem with water along one wall of his pool. I think Matt would need a French drain system behind that wall as he never had standing water per se. Check out his pics earlier on - he points out the moisture lines. It doesn't appear to be a water table issue as its water from above not below like a typical high water table problem.
Matt - you'll find it funny to know that in my neighborhood we do have a high water table - there's an aqua fir below us!
Matt - you'll find it funny to know that in my neighborhood we do have a high water table - there's an aqua fir below us!
We filled up the pool today --- yay! Only took two hoses ~20hrs. And then, the pentair rep came out and help setup the automation and ensure the pump started right. I'm learning a lot about how to quickly do tests with the tf100 testkit and perform corrections. Good news and bad news -- PH started the day maxing out the kit... it took putting in ~64 oz of muriatic acid slowly over ~10hrs to get a reading close to 7.7. Chlorine is also practically non existent...will wait for ph to get closer to 7.5 before adding bleach. I made runs to leslies and the grocery store today to find the key BBB ingredients. Pool builder has stocked me up with salt and sequestrant, but I had to get my own muriatic acid. It will take awhile to get used to everything.
I'll post pictures as soon as the water clears up completely....it's mostly good now. Need to keep busy with the brushing too....any worry with using the whale brushes on new pebble sheen?
One worry...the patch the plaster guys put in the other day has a visible line...PB is bringing the plaster guys out again tomorrow to review again. They really better not tell me we need to drain, repatch, and refill.
I'll post pictures as soon as the water clears up completely....it's mostly good now. Need to keep busy with the brushing too....any worry with using the whale brushes on new pebble sheen?
One worry...the patch the plaster guys put in the other day has a visible line...PB is bringing the plaster guys out again tomorrow to review again. They really better not tell me we need to drain, repatch, and refill.
Another touch and go on chemistry for pool today -- ph was 7.5 with ~5 FC in the morning and by the early afternoon had switched to ph 8.2+ and no FC. I overcompensated a little by getting 30 CYA in via dilution in a bucket poured into the skimmer + additional muriatic acid + bleach (reasonable breaks between each). Didn't realize how much the cya would also push down the ph.....was tricky when ph was touching 7.0 - 7.2 but I used the occasion to add 8lb of borates and by end of day PH was 7.6, CYA 30, FC 3, TA 100, and Borates 4.5. Of course, that wasn't the only excitement - plaster people sent over a repair tech in a scuba suit to dive into the pool deep end and replace the failed patched pebble sheen. Before the guy went in, he was telling me I'd likely have to drain the pool. But he spent about 40 minutes at the bottom of the pool which had a temp of ~57 degrees and somehow managed to fix it in a manner that I can barely tell where the original patch was, and that's purely because the new sheen hasn't been acid washed and is slightly lighter than the rest of the pool. The diver said he'd fix that later on and he made jokes that he can do the work because he does everything he can to force his body to adapt to cold temperature as early as possible in the season. His suit doesn't have a heater.
We started cleaning up everything left over from construction in the late afternoon and the pool is getting clear enough that I can now see some sparkles and nice ripples across the surface. The BBB stuff really seems to be working out....assuming I can get the TA down over the long term to keep the PH changes reasonable.
We painted pipes this afternoon too.
Still to do:
- Figure out how to program the intellitouch to use the heat pump to maintain a minimum pool temperature while using the solar heating to strive for a 90 degree max temp (allowing either to go on as need, including both at once). Intellitouch seems very confused by the whole idea..at least based on everyone I've talked to and my own browsing through it.
- I'm still working on finding the right pump speeds for skimmer/drains
- Get the automated safety cover installed in early january
- Startup, test, and configure automation of the solar heating
- Test the automatic switching between main and deep heating returns, create triggers/schedules
- Fix lingering issues with deck efflorescence
- Build veranda for all the equipment
- Review location for intellichem and its piping/controller - startup/online/configure intellichlor and intellichem (put in salt/etc)
- Get borates up slowly over time
Oh yeah, can't forget to take some pictures to share as soon as the water clears up more.
We started cleaning up everything left over from construction in the late afternoon and the pool is getting clear enough that I can now see some sparkles and nice ripples across the surface. The BBB stuff really seems to be working out....assuming I can get the TA down over the long term to keep the PH changes reasonable.
We painted pipes this afternoon too.
Still to do:
- Figure out how to program the intellitouch to use the heat pump to maintain a minimum pool temperature while using the solar heating to strive for a 90 degree max temp (allowing either to go on as need, including both at once). Intellitouch seems very confused by the whole idea..at least based on everyone I've talked to and my own browsing through it.
- I'm still working on finding the right pump speeds for skimmer/drains
- Get the automated safety cover installed in early january
- Startup, test, and configure automation of the solar heating
- Test the automatic switching between main and deep heating returns, create triggers/schedules
- Fix lingering issues with deck efflorescence
- Build veranda for all the equipment
- Review location for intellichem and its piping/controller - startup/online/configure intellichlor and intellichem (put in salt/etc)
- Get borates up slowly over time
Oh yeah, can't forget to take some pictures to share as soon as the water clears up more.
Tried to turn on heat pump today and it ran fine for a few minutes, but when it actually started to heat, there was a rocking/mild banging noise that slowly got louder over the next 5 minutes. I suspect that the heat pump either needs to be bolted to the ground or needs to be on a perfectly level surface...the deck where it is located is slightly tilted to direct water towards a built in drain.
Banging might indicate insufficient water flow. The flow rate to the heater should be verified before the heater is turned on again.
Another issue found today..... apparently at pump speeds less than 1700 rpm, the skimmer wier doesn't drop sufficiently to get any real effective filtering, and the pump needs to run at 2100+ rpm to get stuff circling constantly at the top of the skimmer to fall into the basket. I notice that the pool builder put in a backup skimmer drain slightly underneath the main skimmer and I'm not sure how much is pump gpm is being drawn through it. I've disabled the main drains during testing. ~2150rpm is roughly 600 watts. 1700rpm was ~350 watts, 1300rpm was ~200 watts according to intellitouch pump status.
I've seen mentions of people replacing their skimmers with something called a venturi skimmer...no idea what that is but am going to google for it.
I've seen mentions of people replacing their skimmers with something called a venturi skimmer...no idea what that is but am going to google for it.
You should check what the ratio is between the skimmer and the lower port - there should be a lever to adjust it. I've been reading up on this myself as we are replacing our skimmer and adding a lower suction point too. There are several options that I've seen: a device to control ratio between the skimmer and lower suction - like a valve really. Then theres a float valve setup that has a ratio control and if the skimmer gets blocked or water level drops too low will switch 100% to the lower suction port. And a third option that is all skimmer unless it gets blocked/water level too low and then it switches 100% to the lower port.
Since the pump isnt starving, I'd bet yours is set to at best equal parts skimmer and lower port - take out the basket in the skimmer and is there some kind of lever to turn or slide?
Since the pump isnt starving, I'd bet yours is set to at best equal parts skimmer and lower port - take out the basket in the skimmer and is there some kind of lever to turn or slide?