resource for borax?

[y_not]

OK, I gotta ask.... Why are you torturing yourself by still visiting the pool store and listening to their babble? :blah:

You have a TF100 test kit now, so testing your water is now all under your control and I might add: far, far more accurate and consistent than the PS.
So no need to even go there for testing.

Also, I have been following the thread and am unsure as to what your gameplan with the mustard algae is and why you're waiting out the season on it?
Yeah, I know the CYA is high, but I see no one has mentioned that It's well within range for an SWCG chlorinated pool, which you have. At least the unit anyway.
So you either spend money on more bleach, or spend it on water, salt and then more CYA.
My 2 cents is that the former will likely come out cheaper due to the high expense of trucked in water, then add the cost of salt and cya.... HELLO! If it were me, I'd just blast that puppy with bleach and SLAM it!! Stop giving the algae a free ride, it eats CL!!!

RO (reverse osmosis) treatment may be an option in Vegas, I know it has been spoken of years ago for NV. But again, you have to weigh the cost versus partial drain+fill+salt, vs. SLAMing as is.
The bleach is hard to quantify, but mostly It's the initial cost of the 1st high dose for shock level, then again to mustard. In between, it's all just a maintenance does, however more CL is required to raise it after each drop, it usually isn't as ghastly large of an amount as it 1st seems, based solely on that initial big dose.

Have you confirmed it is mustard algae and not pollen? Is it only in shaded areas, on the walls AS WELL AS the floor? Pollen won't cling to the walls, only the floor.

 

[Patrick_B]

OK, I gotta ask.... Why are you torturing yourself by still visiting the pool store and listening to their babble? :blah:

You have a TF100 test kit now, so testing your water is now all under your control and I might add: far, far more accurate and consistent than the PS.
So no need to even go there for testing.

Also, I have been following the thread and am unsure as to what your gameplan with the mustard algae is and why you're waiting out the season on it?
Yeah, I know the CYA is high, but I see no one has mentioned that It's well within range for an SWCG chlorinated pool, which you have. At least the unit anyway.
So you either spend money on more bleach, or spend it on water, salt and then more CYA.
My 2 cents is that the former will likely come out cheaper due to the high expense of trucked in water, then add the cost of salt and cya.... HELLO! If it were me, I'd just blast that puppy with bleach and SLAM it!! Stop giving the algae a free ride, it eats CL!!!

RO (reverse osmosis) treatment may be an option in Vegas, I know it has been spoken of years ago for NV. But again, you have to weigh the cost versus partial drain+fill+salt, vs. SLAMing as is.
The bleach is hard to quantify, but mostly It's the initial cost of the 1st high dose for shock level, then again to mustard. In between, it's all just a maintenance does, however more CL is required to raise it after each drop, it usually isn't as ghastly large of an amount as it 1st seems, based solely on that initial big dose.

Have you confirmed it is mustard algae and not pollen? Is it only in shaded areas, on the walls AS WELL AS the floor? Pollen won't cling to the walls, only the floor.

What do you mean hard to "quantify" ? Not hard at all, unless I misunderstand you...

Nuklhead, please hear this in the most friendly way possible...You have to start using your kit and decide who's numbers you trust. Yours or theirs at the Pool Stores. If you continue to mix their advice, and that of the forum, you'll spin your wheels from here on out. I've seen it over and over when someone tries this, and until you decide you will have a constant fight with your pool. As you've seen they tried getting you to use at least one product we know for certain you shouldn't. We won't give you that kind of bad advice here, but you have to decide to trust it or not. I can assure you it works, but the choice is yours.

 

[nuklhed]

SLAM in process

First job yesterday was to get pH in line, then in evening I added 6 gallons liquid chlorine. Filter pump running 24x7. FC only got up to 19. So I added the last two gallons left. Two hours later FC only up to 21. Test this morning shows FC back down to 12. So, it's off to pool store at opening time for another 12 gals.
Someone's opinion was only 4 gals would do it. Ha! They didn't see this algae bloom!! I can't get it even up basic SLAM level, much less that for mustard algae.
I take water to stores 'cause they test for free, I'm interested in all the knowledge I can acquire. And then it's fun watching them twist in their own wind when I ask for advice.
And yes, it definitely is mustard algae since it blooms mostly on walls, can be 'blown' away with sweep of hand but comes right back couple days later.... saying nothing of the color.
I think problem all along has been too low FC 'cause tabs in floaters just weren't putting enough into the water, especially since it was masked by the high CYA level.

Oh, important: I am seeing an unusual event in test process. When R-0870 is added to 10ml water, there is a brief initial blush to pink, then after swirl the solution goes clear again. All particles do not dissolve. Then when R-0871 is added, pink only returns after 8-10 drops. Is this normal behavior? I didn't observe it when FC values were down near normal.

About SWG, since it was disabled when I bought the house (from a bank - it was mighty gratifying to watch them lose a bundle of cash... in my favor for a change!), I have presumed SWG does not work. Just removing cell for test is difficult enough since plumbing is below water line (plus, Leslie's wants me to give it acid-bath before bringing in). And if it is bad, it will be awhile before I can find the cash to buy replacement, they're not cheap. Plumbing also looks mighty dry and seized-up, so I'm hesitant to tackle it... one crack and the whole job spirals out of control. (hmm... think I better get a small strap-wrench for those big union collars.)
BTW, thanks for comment from my loyal readers, I'm retired on fixed income so all work on the pool is done by me only. That's why I cannot drain now and leave the plaster open to our desert air during summer. This fall I'll buy a sandblaster from Harbor Freight plus materials for about $500, use the rig for one job then could simply throw it away and still save half the cost of a contractor. Already have 60-gal 3-hp 10cfm compressor. Gonna be a big job but I've got all winter to do it.

 

[Bama Rambler]

Oh, important: I am seeing an unusual event in test process. When R-0870 is added to 10ml water, there is a brief initial blush to pink, then after swirl the solution goes clear again. All particles do not dissolve. Then when R-0871 is added, pink only returns after 8-10 drops. Is this normal behavior? I didn't observe it when FC values were down near normal.

If it flashes to pink and then back clear, you need to add another scoop of R-0870. What happens when it flashes and goes back clear is you don't have enough reagent.

 

[ping]

For the flashing pink to clear use another scoop of powder. Read the extended directions for the FAS-DPD test, extended-test-kit-directions-t25081.html.

Find some instructions on how to clean the cell, most want a 1 part acid to 4 parts water to clean the cell. Only clean it with acid if there is a white build up inside the cell. Pour some water on the plumbing to help lube it up some before you try unscrewing it.

 

[nuklhed]

FC test - FAS-DPD

Well, the second scoop of R-0870 sure answered that issue. But this leaves me wondering what those chunks of white swirling around the bottom are? I had presumed it was the same reagent which simply didn't get into solution. Is it an 'bulker' to thin the concentration?... or perhaps to prevent clumping?
I got a slightly different result with the second test too, so we learn that FAS-DPD is sensitive to adequate quantities of reagent - even though I did add the heaping scoop as directed. Perhaps at high FC values more is required.
Anyway, second test shows FC at 17.5. Still way below target 31 (for CYA 80).
I'm guessing this process will burn thru another 12 gallons by the time it has nuked all the algae.
Anyone care to guess how long before family can use the pool again? We're having a yard party on Weds but I guess the pool will still be out of commission?

 

[nuklhed]

quick question for community

My OCLT lost about 4., current level around 17. Should I keep pushing the SLAM by adding more chlorine this morning, or wait until dark of this evening?

 

[Bama Rambler]

You should test and add as often as every hour as long as you're losing FC.

 

[chem geek]

Don't forget that for a SLAM against yellow/mustard algae, you want to get behind light niches and under removable ladders (if any) and expose them to the high SLAM chlorine level. This algae likes to hide out in shady areas and will get reintroduced if you don't kill it off completely.

 

[y_not]

You need to be sure you add enough CL to get up to shock level each time. Use PoolCalc, add what it says for your bleach/liquid CL percentage & test 30 min later to verify. It can literally drop by a significant amount that quickly!
If CL levels are high enough, and you're getting inconsistent results, use 2 scoop of dpd powder. You may consider a 5ml sample so each drop equals 1ppm, at shock levels this high, you'll go through far, far less reagent. It's not as precise, but still close enough until you reach OCLT time, but that's down the road a ways.

Be sure you're running your pump and filter 24/7, also only pour your CL in front of an active return, slowly, a stream about the diameter of a pencil. You can pour it faster, but then you have to brush it good. Never pour into skimmer, or in front of it, it can damage the pump and/or your filter.

As for the sand blaster, see my prior post for a soda blaster from harbor freight for 1/5 that cost. It's superior to sand by about a 100 ways, at least!

Don't even try absorbing pool store knowledge. It's not knowledge at all, but unfactual, unfounded, falsely based information. Perpetuated by the chemical manufacturers and the PS's sheer lack of proper research and practical, cost effective application.
All they care about is selling you magic soups, elixirs and "cures what ales you" for your pool. Whether it works.... well, most of us can attest 1st hand that it doesn't.
Hence their water testing is not really "free" at all!

I know it can be fun to bask in the lamp of unintelligence. But the problem is, all too often, they'll just drag you down to their level and beat you senseless with their unintelligence.

 

[y_not]

The bleach is hard to quantify, but mostly It's the initial cost of the 1st high dose for shock level, then again to mustard. In between, it's all just a maintenance does, however more CL is required to raise it after each drop, it usually isn't as ghastly large of an amount as it 1st seems, based solely on that initial big dose.

What do you mean hard to "quantify" ? Not hard at all, unless I misunderstand you...

What I was referring to, is that's It's nigh impossible to estimate, at least for us mere mortals, how much bleach/LCL you'll precisely, or even approximately need to complete the SLAM process for your pool. For one key reason, we have no idea how much the algae and possibly other organics in each pool's particular water will eat.

Hopefully that makes a bit more sense.
Sorry about any confusion there mate.

 

[techguy]

What I do know is I would spend less on bleach than I would on the "magic" PhosXXXX or other chemicals that leave me needing chlorine anyway.

 

[nuklhed]

SLAM in process

Many thanks to Guy and Tony for following up. Very reassuring to be flying in formation.
Finally got FC up to 45. Took an additional 6 gals.. 14 so far. Some organics in the water too, plus the algae. Filter pressure rose really quickly too, probably all that dead algae being swept up. I'll brush again and re-test in a couple hours.
Has anyone seen an in-depth inquiry I made about feasibility of going to softened water in a swimming pool? Posted to community but directed to Chem.Geek.
I cannot even find it myself, maybe it disappeared in the virtual ether.

 

[chiefwej]

I fill my pool from my tap water starting out around 200 and dessert evaporation rates, after a year I was CH around 750 or so, two years and it was over 1,000. So I will continue to fill from he tap, but I am re plumbing my auto fill to my water softener output. It would never keep up with he initial fill, but I will be topping up with soft water. That will cause my salt levels to keep rising a bit, and will increase my softener salt use, but its better than calcium scale on the pool.

BTW: I looked into having my pool water RO treated. It would remove your CYA, metals, calcium, and salt. Cost here in Tucson was about $350. I don't know if its avail in our area, but that might be a good option for you.

 

[chem geek]

Re: SLAM in process

Has anyone seen an in-depth inquiry I made about feasibility of going to softened water in a swimming pool? Posted to community but directed to Chem.Geek.

You can use soft water, meaning water low in calcium and magnesium, for a vinyl pool, but you can't do that with a plaster pool unless you don't care if your plaster dissolves into the water. Pool plaster is composed, in part, of calcium carbonate so if you do not saturate the water with calcium carbonate, then it will dissolve into your "soft" pool water.

 

[chiefwej]

Re: SLAM in process

Has anyone seen an in-depth inquiry I made about feasibility of going to softened water in a swimming pool? Posted to community but directed to Chem.Geek.

You can use soft water, meaning water low in calcium and magnesium, for a vinyl pool, but you can't do that with a plaster pool unless you don't care if your plaster dissolves into the water. Pool plaster is composed, in part, of calcium carbonate so if you do not saturate the water with calcium carbonate, then it will dissolve into your "soft" pool water.

Since there will be plenty of calcium in my hard fill water, and when water evaporates it will still be there, I have no need to top up with hard water. So connecting my auto fill on the water softener should work just fine. My CH level should remain stable vs rising to levels over 1,000.


No, you don't want soft fill water, but for replacement due to evaporation it's actually a good idea.

 

[chem geek]

Understood and makes sense.

 

[y_not]

Re: SLAM in process

Many thanks to Guy and Tony for following up. Very reassuring to be flying in formation.

Anyone care to guess how long before family can use the pool again? We're having a yard party on Weds but I guess the pool will still be out of commission?

Thank you nuklhed!
Flying in formation, HAHA, that's cool!
Sorry I didn't return the thank you earlier. I tend to get caught up in the technical how and what and forget the niceties sometimes.

You'll definitely want to keep people out of the pool with such a big CL demand battle on your hands. Normally you can swim up to std. shock levels for your cya. But you're using a loooot of CL and putting people in the pool will cause an adl. CL demand, slowing your progress and loosing a foothold. Costing you more money in CL and more time in the long haul.
If you weren't dealing with mustard and simply on the tail end, with crystal clear water, less than 0.5cc and loosing very little CL, just waiting to pass an OCLT you're barely passing, I'd say go for it! But this isn't the case here unfortunately.


Hang in there, have some POP!
A Coke on me.

 

[nuklhed]

SLAM progress

Numbers I am seeing are really extreme. Water significantly more clear but still a trace of cloud. Most must.alg suppressed but boyoboy, that stuff sure is tenacious in corners, I'm having to go after it with wire brush.
To recap:
Started SLAM with 6 gal Cl., two days ago. Test FC=19.5
Added 2 gals Cl, two hours later test FC=21
Next day added another 6 gals Cl. (no OCLT test) 2 hr test FC=45
Evening test FC=38.5
Added 2 gals Cl. 2-hr test FC=48
Next day (today) morning test (OCLT) FC=33
Added 2 gals Cl, 2-hr test 52

Question for community: Can I expect OCLT to really stablize at only 1.0ppm at these extreme levels?... before I can end SLAM?
Seems to me an overnight loss of 5.0 ppm would be plenty to signify sufficient algae kill, simply because of outgassing. NO?

 

[nuklhed]

couple questions for Chem.Geek

Very pleased to observe you're following (even if only at a distance).

Q1: I see you have a variable pump. Did you trace power useage before going to variable? I'm not convinced the savings will be so extreme as sellers allege.

Q2: My well water tested (by TFT-100) with zero Ca+. Hard to believe, but leaves me wondering where CH=380 in pool came from in the first place. Are there any common chemicals with high Ca+ previous owner might have added?... or did it leach out of the plaster? I see no visible erosion, but surfaces are a bit scaly and stained (from current owner's negligence!).