I'm wondering the same thing-I'm very interested in the cal-hypo pellets as an alternative to di-chlor and tri-chlor with its cya issues that complicate your pool water chemistry. My pool was a mess so I had it purified (RO by puripool) and now the water is crystal clear. My beginning reading; cya was 140 and now 45, calcium hardness was off the chart 1100+ and now only 260. I then hunted and found a water filter purifier for my outside water hose (no auto fill feature) so now when I need to add water due to evaporation, I won't be defeating the purpose by adding our AZ extremely hard water to it. I have been learning a lot from having my pool water filtered and explained why my pool was not holding chlorine and in such bad condition. I want to make sure my sanitizer is not working against me and in time trash my water with the so called stabilizers additives. liquid bleach is something I don't want to handle or breathe on a daily basis or deal with another piece of equipment (feeder) to buy and maintain. I also read that liquid bleach loses its potency sitting on the store shelves and it shouldn't be stored in the heat because it degrades and can be hazzardess. I can't find the lithium version in pellet so the calcium seems the next best choice to me. It would seem as long as I don't have hard water in my pool to begin with, the calcium issue would not pose any real problem for me. Not sure how much calcium builds up over how long either. The Lithium powder version seems like the all around best choice because it has no junk in it at all and I heard it costs more but then you have to balance that against all the other problems, time and money using the others in the long term. The sodium (liquid form) adds sodium to the water and so I'm leaning toward the cal-hypo that might be the best solution in my case. My senerio might bring a different insight since my water has been cleaned not drained and adding crapy water back in from the spicket.... I want to keep it that way.
Researching pros and cons of both Liquid Chlorine vs Cal-hypo (no cya) sanitation
- Thread starter Drd
- Start date
I'm wondering the same thing-I'm very interested in the cal-hypo pellets as an alternative to di-chlor and tri-chlor with its cya issues that complicate your pool water chemistry. My pool was a mess so I had it purified (RO by puripool) and now the water is crystal clear. My beginning reading; cya was 140 and now 45, calcium hardness was off the chart 1100+ and now only 260. I then hunted and found a water filter purifier for my outside water hose (no auto fill feature) so now when I need to add water due to evaporation, I won't be defeating the purpose by adding our AZ extremely hard water to it. I have been learning a lot from having my pool water filtered and explained why my pool was not holding chlorine and in such bad condition. I want to make sure my sanitizer is not working against me and in time trash my water with the so called stabilizers additives. liquid bleach is something I don't want to handle or breathe on a daily basis or deal with another piece of equipment (feeder) to buy and maintain. I also read that liquid bleach loses its potency sitting on the store shelves and it shouldn't be stored in the heat because it degrades and can be hazzardess. I can't find the lithium version in pellet so the calcium seems the next best choice to me. It would seem as long as I don't have hard water in my pool to begin with, the calcium issue would not pose any real problem for me. Not sure how much calcium builds up over how long either. The Lithium powder version seems like the all around best choice because it has no junk in it at all and I heard it costs more but then you have to balance that against all the other problems, time and money using the others in the long term. The sodium (liquid form) adds sodium to the water and so I'm leaning toward the cal-hypo that might be the best solution in my case. My senerio might bring a different insight since my water has been cleaned not drained and adding crapy water back in from the spicket.... I want to keep it that way.
Re: Why do you never recommend Cal-Hypo?
Cal-hypo is the very last thing on earth you'd want to consider. No matter what filter you have, your replacement water will add calcium, so you are going to struggle with CH even if you don't use Cal-Hypo. Only RO filters calcium. The lithium shock isn't a sanitizer, so it won't help you. Bleach or liquid chlorine is by far the best choice. If it adds salt, so what? It makes the water feel better and doesn't cause scaling like calcium does.
Cal-hypo is the very last thing on earth you'd want to consider. No matter what filter you have, your replacement water will add calcium, so you are going to struggle with CH even if you don't use Cal-Hypo. Only RO filters calcium. The lithium shock isn't a sanitizer, so it won't help you. Bleach or liquid chlorine is by far the best choice. If it adds salt, so what? It makes the water feel better and doesn't cause scaling like calcium does.
I have recently learned more about the chemicals in my pool. I just recently had my pool RO'd a new process that filters your water instead of draining and replacing your water. It removes all the minerals and solids that gives you a blank slate of crystal clear water rather than tap to work with. So now I want to do all I can to take care of it and not trash it with all the problems CYA stabilizers cause. I realize I need to switch my sanitation chemicals to a non stabilized form of chlorine. I am concerned with the use of strong liquid pool chlorine because it can be quite hazzardess in the handling and generate harmful gaseous fumes not to mention high concentrations of salt which is a corrosive and very high PH levels that need close monitoring. The alternative I found for regular maintenance in lower strength than the shock version is Cal-Hypo which is available in tablet form and has a off-line feeder to provide continuous chlorination. The issue I learned is it has calcium instead of salt and has it's own complications of scaling but then I understand Pulsar has created one with a descaler additive to counter act it but of course it still adds to TDS but all methods do, although Cal-Hypo seems to have the least effect on other chemicals in the matrix from what I gathered. I do have a pool service company, so I'm figuring I would have to provide the Cal-Hypo chemicals due to their more expensive .....but cost is relative IMO when you have to spend the time and money fixing problems on those that contribute more balancing issues. i should also note that I found a water filter for outdoor use that connects to my hose (don't have an auto filler) so I am not continually adding Arizona hard water minerals to my pool as it evaporates in our heat and allows me to continuiously maintain my purified sparkling clear water and TSD count for a long time. I am at a cross road going back and forth on which process to go with and I am leaning towards Cal-Hypo from Pulsar (not the one on Amazon reviewed to cause a purple discoloration called CCH which I will not use). I appreciate your expert opinions.
Hi and welcome to TFP! This is a great case for using the TFP methods. Basically you'll add CYA manually in the form of powder stabilizer (put the required amount to bring CYA to 50 in a sock and hang it over a return). Then use liquid chlorine (bleach) to maintain FC. It's that easy. Read up on pool school, order a test kit (either a TF-100 or Taylor K-2006C), and put your pool equipment details in your signature. We will help you get started.
Cal-hypo can be used as a supplemental source of chlorine, but not as the main source. It will raise your CH too fast and too much.
Cal-hypo can be used as a supplemental source of chlorine, but not as the main source. It will raise your CH too fast and too much.
You need to go look at the bottom of poolmath where it shows Effects Of Adding Chemicals.
Let's say your pool uses a small amount of FC every day -- 2 ppm. So you add 14 FC per week.
Enough 10% bleach to add 14 FC also adds 23 Salt
Enough 73% Cal-hypo to add 14 FC also adds 10 CH and 14 Salt.
You're open year-round. In 52 weeks of bleach you've added 1196 ppm salt. The Cal hypo will have added 520 CH and 728 Salt
I'd rather add 468 salt than 520 CH.
Let's say your pool uses a small amount of FC every day -- 2 ppm. So you add 14 FC per week.
Enough 10% bleach to add 14 FC also adds 23 Salt
Enough 73% Cal-hypo to add 14 FC also adds 10 CH and 14 Salt.
You're open year-round. In 52 weeks of bleach you've added 1196 ppm salt. The Cal hypo will have added 520 CH and 728 Salt
I'd rather add 468 salt than 520 CH.
- May 23, 2015
- 25,718
- Pool Size
- 16000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-60
You cannot maintain a chlorine pool in Arizona (or anywhere really) without CYA stabilizer. When no CYA is present, the half-life of chlorine is about 30mins. So, in about 2 hours, 90% of your chlorine will be completely depleted. You will wind up having to add so much chlorine from your Cal-hypo feeder, that your CH will increase in no time at all. For every 10ppm FC added by cal-hypo, you add roughly 6ppm CH. Descaler or not, your pool will reach scaling potential in no time.
The better option is to fire the pool guy, do your own water analysis using one of the recommended test kits and taking control, of your own pool management. When you follow the advice here and properly balance your pool, ALL of the issues you have dealt with over the years become a thing of the past. Poor water chemistry management is 99.9% of the problems with a pool.
My pool has been operating for 4 years now absolutely trouble free as I follow the advice here and have no issues whatsoever. I happen to have a salt-water chlorine generator which makes chlorination and maintaining appropriate FC levels a cinch, but, even if I had to use liquid chlorine in my pool (aka, bleach), I could still easily maintain my pool.
It's up to you what you want to do, but your proposed scheme seems like a lot more work and investing money in a specialized cal-hypo feeder when that's not really the problem.
The better option is to fire the pool guy, do your own water analysis using one of the recommended test kits and taking control, of your own pool management. When you follow the advice here and properly balance your pool, ALL of the issues you have dealt with over the years become a thing of the past. Poor water chemistry management is 99.9% of the problems with a pool.
My pool has been operating for 4 years now absolutely trouble free as I follow the advice here and have no issues whatsoever. I happen to have a salt-water chlorine generator which makes chlorination and maintaining appropriate FC levels a cinch, but, even if I had to use liquid chlorine in my pool (aka, bleach), I could still easily maintain my pool.
It's up to you what you want to do, but your proposed scheme seems like a lot more work and investing money in a specialized cal-hypo feeder when that's not really the problem.
Liquid chlorine (aka bleach) is better long term.
Cal-Hypo IS a salt once you add it to the pool.
To prevent scaling, you need to monitor the CSI (calcite saturation index). There are many on this forum from Arizona that easily manage calcium levels above 1000 ppm without scaling issues. Additional "additives" are not necessary.
Save your money, don't buy the pulsar and use that money towards a SWG or Stenner type of pump if you don't want to manually dose with liquid chlorine.
Cal-Hypo IS a salt once you add it to the pool.
To prevent scaling, you need to monitor the CSI (calcite saturation index). There are many on this forum from Arizona that easily manage calcium levels above 1000 ppm without scaling issues. Additional "additives" are not necessary.
Save your money, don't buy the pulsar and use that money towards a SWG or Stenner type of pump if you don't want to manually dose with liquid chlorine.
BattleOfYakima
TFP Guide
Congrats on the reverse osmosis! How cool! I really respect your caution with respect to chemicals. Muriatic Acid, for example, certainly demands extreme respect or can quickly punish pool owners who don't educate before handling. You are correct that bleach/stronger bleach aka pool chlorinating liquid can be hazardous, but it is very easy to educate, transport safely, store safely, and administer/dose/pour in the pool safely, without splashing, without any at all noticeable fumes at arms length, and slowly enough to dissolve down to the 2-12 parts per MILLION that you desire in a matter of minutes. I believe that someone as smart as you clearly are should be able to come up with a basic strategy that makes your use of 8.25-12.5% bleach entirely worry-free - as thousands and thousands of us do across the country. Do you have any specific concerns about using the bleach? Even with cal-hypo you're still going to maintain that 2-12ppm, so it really isn't any stronger. If you buy sealed bottles, secure upright, and don't drive extreme off-road on the way home, you'll get them home safe. Store in a cool, dark place, not with MA. If you need to measure it rather than pour directly from bottle for some reason, use a large plastic measuring cup you rise with pool water after. For a pool of, let's say 10,000 gallons, to add 2ppm of FC a day you'd only be adding 30oz (3cups 6oz) of 8.25% household regular bleach a day, again, into that 10,000 gallon pool. If you did what I do and get the 10.5% 2.5 gallon refill jugs from pool store, you'd only add 20oz (2 cups 4oz) and that's of the highest strength bleach! Even if you were going from 0FC to shock at 30cya of 12FC, that's only a single gallon of strong bleach into the entire 10,000 gallon pool. 1 drop of bleach per 10,000 drops of water...and the sun begins burning it off immediately too. Anywho, I really do respect your caution, and hope I've helped.
schatz
0
I just replastered pool and refilled in May, I live in Tucson. the CA was only 180 after filling, I am pretty sure most of our water is coming from CAP and not ground water, if not I would probably have to worry about my CA being high. I was kind of thinking about raising my CA because saturation index is -4 at 90 degree pool water with ph at 7.4.
Others with more experience have explained the chemicals and the fact that you need some CYA to help protect FC from the intense AZ sun.
If you are interested in ease of use, consider switching to a SWG. The salt level is much less than the amount in the ocean and you won't have to worry about buying and lugging jugs of bleach. The cost of a SWG and bleach are about the same long term, but you end up paying for the SWG upfront.
If you are interested in ease of use, consider switching to a SWG. The salt level is much less than the amount in the ocean and you won't have to worry about buying and lugging jugs of bleach. The cost of a SWG and bleach are about the same long term, but you end up paying for the SWG upfront.
HI @razorhog, I think you would be surprised that Pulsar has developed a tablet form and a Plus version with a descaler preventer in it intended for regular maintenance of of your pool no longer just a product for shock purposes only. Yes a pellet is higher concentrated but you use less and buy less. A "gallon" of liquid chlorine is only 10% FC by volume then after storage on retail shelves and in your garage and maybe in a feeder outside, exposed especially in AZ heat of 120 degrees we just had, has any potency left because it is degrades but not Cal-Hypo pellets or other pellets for that matter. You also need to understand Liquid chlorine has a ton of salt approx. 1.5 to 1 ratio so you might as well do a SWG which I am not interested at all. I really hope to find more information not a basic response and understand I have been doing a lot of research and was hoping to tap into some expert knowledge on the subject. Thank you for your response.
Hi joyfulnoise, I do want to say there are people in AZ with non cya liquid chlorine pools which are professionals. The problems keeping a pool balanced is due to the build up of the cya that you can't get rid rid of and restricts the FC chlorine from working and then you have to compensate with more chlorine until it just doesn't sanitize any longer no matter how much you put in and then your only recourse after maybe two years is to drain and refill or in my case i elected a better course of not wasting water and not adding TDS back in from the tap and wasting thousands of otherwise good water . I don't want to be glued to a test kit and a warehouse of chemicals to counter actl the side effects of it. Salt is absorbed into the body and could pose a health problem in such large quantities especially with a SWG, also SWG are expensive and I hear don't last long before needing replacement and prone to High PH. So there's cons to that system too. Cal-Hypo I understand doesn't effect other chemicals so I only see I don't get over chlorinated due to cya and excessive salt in and on my body and I don't have the hazards of liquid chlorine and muriatic acid chemicals. I really would like to hear from someone and their experience with Cal-Hypo.
Hi Teald024, your post was informative on Cal-Hypo thank you. I do realize all forms of chlorine are derived from salt to a greater or lesser degree. The issue is the form you use as to how much you have to dose your pool with and it's effects on the other components but should not be limited to that has there are storage, potency loss, hazards to health such as fumes, burns and salt. The only non cya chlorine is a sold in a solid form for daily maintenance and not a SWG is Cal-hypo without cya issues. There are feeders for Liquid chlorine too. The way I see it is there is only two choices for me that have feeders available so you don't have to labor over the pool daily and thats liquid and Cal-hyro so it's weighing the pros and cons of each to include health issues and handling/storage issues. I have upper respiratory issues so it really would be beneficial if you examined that side of the issue as well when advising people 
Do you work for, or have some vested interest in Pulsar? It seems like some very cliché arguments against the BBB method.
Teald024 Just wanted you to know I am not referring to the Pulsar feeder that cost thousands $ that is for commercial use by the way they don't make one for residential. CCH makes a off-line metered feeder for the cal-hypo pellets for homes that doesn't break the bank. If you know someone in Arizona with a cal-hypo chlorine pool that I could talk to that would be helpful. Once again it depends how this works with my pool co and or if I will even keep them since they're here for only maybe 15 mins once a week and I'm getting better at this.
jgofnj
Silver Supporter
- May 28, 2013
- 414
- Pool Size
- 18500
- Surface
- Vinyl
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-40
Good luck trying to keep your pool water sanitized without some CYA. Don't think it's gonna work out for you in the end.
The problem with cal hypo is that eventually your hardness will be too high and you would need another reverse osmosis treatment or water replacement. Doesn't help if your fill water is high in calcium.
Hi Kcindc, I guess I should of clarified, I filtered my water and yes you have to re-established your chemical balance one it is completed. I am talking long term maintenance. I hear people spend a lot for the SWG and they have problem especially with the high PH it causes more so than liquid chlorine but not with cal-hypo. The SWG have a reputation of not lasting long and you can damage your pool and equipment too. My neighbor bragged about installing a SWG and redid his pool with pebble tech and I just learned yesterday his pool and spa are both sitting totally empty baking in the AZ hot sun so something dramatic happened to his pool..... no thank you. Maybe the SWG works great for you pool geeks, but not everyone is going to have your experience with it.
I do realize all forms of chlorine are derived from salt to a greater or lesser degree. The issue is the form you use as to how much you have to dose your pool with and it's effects on the other components but should not be limited to that has there are storage, potency loss, hazards to health such as fumes, burns and salt. The only non cya chlorine is a sold in a solid form for daily maintenance and not a SWG is Cal-hypo without cya issues. There are feeders for Liquid chlorine too. The way I see it is there is only two choices for me that have feeders available so you don't have to labor over the pool daily and thats liquid and Cal-hyro so it's weighing the pros and cons of each to include health issues and handling/storage issues. I have upper respiratory issues so it really would be beneficial if you examined that side of the issue as well when advising people
Yeah, I can see you want the best method of getting chlorine into your pool and I can commend you for that. I had that same choice when I started. I decided to go with the bleach / peristaltic pump (Stenner) system. Its not an off the shelf system and those that use them are home built. To be honest, if I had the funds I probably would go with the SWG, but I don't.
The health risks are no different. Chlorine is Chlorine. How you get it into the pool is the only difference. There has been a few discussions on the forum about those who related breathing issues with the chlorine. I'm not an expert in that area, but its come down to the CC's causing health issues, not the FC itself. I would urge you to do a search (upper right of each page) on this subject and you will find a few detailed discussions on this.
I'm not too familiar with the Pulsar system and I admit that I didn't do due diligence in looking at it before I responded. My comments were based on the generalities of your initial post. Specifically that in Az where CH in water is already an issue, scaling can be easily controlled by monitoring CSI and additional "additives", whatever they are, are just an additional unneeded cost. I believe based on your location, there are better alternatives to Cal-Hypo method of adding FC. The TFP system would never recommend products that were believed to cause any health issues.
I'm afraid that I don't know of specific ppl who use the Cal-Hypo system. JoyFulNoise is well versed in chemistry, lives in Az and has lived through high CH levels without issue.
BattleofYakima, I enjoyed your post and yes I appreciate you understand the liquid bleach is a real concern for me. I don't even wash clothes with it or clean with it fumes are awful. I respect that some are comfortable using it and I hope they don't suffer health issues later down the road. I would only do this with a metered feeder if I do.