Replacing pool liner. Any advice?

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Ralph III

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Jan 27, 2018
139
Mobile, Al
We are going to be replacing our pool liner soon and I wanted to know if anyone had any insight or advice to offer? Is there anything I should look for or consider?

We do have a pool leak and all of the plumbing has been ruled out as the cause of the leak with exception of the main drain. I know the rest of the plumbing and skimmer isn't the leak because I've had it well below those fittings and it continued to leak down. So it either has to be the main drain or pool liner. I was told by a pool installer (friend of a friend) it is most likely the pool liner given it's age. He stated it's rare to have such an issue with the main drain.

Thanks,
Ralph
 
Many a main drain is filled in because of.................leaks there..........so you will need to look at it real close to make sure it is not the problem. IT could be in the pipes or it could be around the bowl of the main drain.

Have you tried a dye test? It could be a little tricky but someone could hold a long broom handle or such down so you can hold on to it to help you stay down to do the test. Even then it can still be hard to do.

Will you be putting in the liner on your own or hiring it out?

Kim:kim:
 
Unfortunately main drains fail more often than your friend's friend thinks. You don't have to have the main drain to keep your pool clear. Liners that leak, leak because there is an opening in the liner where there is not supposed to be an opening. If the liner is leaking it is because a seam failed and opened up, liner pulled away from a fitting, usually due to ground water movement, or something in the pool tore the liner. Liners can become brittle with age or chemical abuse and be more easily punctured, but they don't leak only because they are old. You should check out the main drain whether you replace the liner or not. How old is your liner?
 
Thanks for the input.

**Yes, I am hiring a pool installation company to install the pool liner and have some questions in regards. The pool is probably 15-20yrs old and the liner may be original(?) given my wife's co-worker just had one replaced that old. Our liner is deteriorating. I had to re-patch several old holes and one large tear all at the water level several months ago. Then we found one new hole and a minor tear this week, again at the water level.

1) What type of warranty or guarantee should I expect?
2) Do liners come in different grades and what should I consider.
]3) Is there some sort of backing that goes on first, such as with carpet padding, and what should I consider?
4) What type of repair work and costs can I expect the installers to perform?
]The sides of our pool are made of treated plywood but I cannot say what the bottom is made of. You can see two boot prints in the bottom of the pool as if someone forgot to smooth the concrete/sand and I would like those leveled. What about plywood repair/replacement?

**Yes, I tried to find the leak with use of dye but to no avail. I was able to apply dye all around the main drain and other areas and he dye just floated lazily. It wasn't sucked into any areas or the main drain. This is what prompted my friends son, who is a pool installer in another state, to suspect it is most likely the liner given its condition and the fact I dye tested it. We are losing about 1 1/2in to 2in each day so I think around 300ga/day or so.

Your input is appreciated,
Ralph
 
Most liners come with a 10-20 year pro-rated warranty. Most liners are between 20mil and 30 mil thick. Thicker is usually better, but the difference is minimal. Some installers use wall foam on the walls, especially if there is rough or rust areas. Anything rusty should be cleaned and sprayed with rust inhibitor. Most installers will recommend wall and floor repairs if needed. They may do it or sub it out to someone else. Since you have wood walls they may recommend replacing any rotted wood. The floor is probably vermiculite. Sometimes it needs patching or smoothing out before the liner goes down.

Current liner sounds brittle so it probably has a small tear near a seam.
 
4) What type of repair work and costs can I expect the installers to perform? The sides of our pool are made of treated plywood but I cannot say what the bottom is made of. You can see two boot prints in the bottom of the pool as if someone forgot to smooth the concrete/sand and I would like those leveled. What about plywood repair/replacement?
Click to expand...

Ralph:

With plywood walls, you may want to take a step back and ask the PB what your options are. Considering the excavation of the foundation is already there, maybe they can swap out for galvanized steel walls, or possibly do a concrete pour, extend the plumbing for the returns and skimmer. The pool will be a little smaller, but liner over a concrete wall and Portland sand base is a nice pool. Assuming that these options may cost a bit, but entirely up to you and the budget.

I would be concerned about making sure that if you stay the course with the wood, that everything is still in tact. Good luck and keep us posted.
 
I'd like to get four to five quotes and plan on calling some installers tomorrow. My wife's co-worker was charged $2,500.00 for a new liner which is a good price. She live across the state line though so I'm not sure if her installer will do work in south Alabama. I was budgeting up to $3,500.00 for the liner.

How did they secure the plywood to the walls in those days for the pool because there are many repairs I could perform myself including possibly the main drain.

Ralph
 
How did they secure the plywood to the walls in those days for the pool because there are many repairs I could perform myself including possibly the main drain.
Click to expand...

I only heard of one story about this type of construction and it was not favorable once the water was removed. It all depends if there is any pressure on the opposite sides of the plywood walls.
 
Ralph III said:
I'd planning on calling a few pool installers tomorrow because I'd like to get four to five quotes. My wife's co-worker was charged $2,500.00 for a new liner which is a good price. She live across the state line though so I'm not sure if her installer will do work in south Alabama. I was budgeting up to $3,500.00 for the liner.

How did they secure the plywood to the walls in those days for the pool because there are many repairs I could perform myself including possibly the main drain.

Ralph
Click to expand...


They use braces like the one shown in this illustration. Wood Wall Inground Pool Kits | Wood Wall Pool Kits DIY | Precision Pools - Atlantic Pool Supply
 

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Catanzaro said:
I only heard of one story about this type of construction and it was not favorable once the water was removed. It all depends if there is any pressure on the opposite sides of the plywood walls.
Click to expand...

A wood wall needs to survive a drain & the pressures of refill.

I relined a wood wall this spring, contract and conversation were very clear of possibilities.

The possibilities were
1. Enjoy new liner for its service life
2. Pool collapses, leading to new pool or no pool.
3. Liner replacement Contract price is to be paid in full, barring fill water if walls fail.

We both got lucky & they are still swimming. I also changed this pools liner in 2003, so my eyes were wide open.


- some pool walls should not be foamed, depending on topography.
- Inground pool floors should never be foamed
- main drain leaks are rare.
- hire installer to qualify the drain pipe, prior to install.
 
PoolguyinCT said:
A wood wall needs to survive a drain & the pressures of refill.

I relined a wood wall this spring, contract and conversation were very clear of possibilities.

The possibilities were
1. Enjoy new liner for its service life
2. Pool collapses, leading to new pool or no pool.
3. Liner replacement Contract price is to be paid in full, barring fill water if walls fail.

We both got lucky & they are still swimming. I also changed this pools liner in 2003, so my eyes were wide open.


- some pool walls should not be foamed, depending on topography.
- Inground pool floors should never be foamed
- main drain leaks are rare.
- hire installer to qualify the drain pipe, prior to install.
Click to expand...

Thanks. I have a few questions for you.

1) Did you place bracing inside the pool, such as 2x6x16ft, to temporarily support the walls in case there were needed repairs to the plywood? Or did you just simply drain the pool, remove liner, make repairs, replace liner and then refill pool?

2) Yes, the friends son (pool installer) also stated main drain leaks were rare but I will have it checked. I've not seen this but is it possible to simply cover the main drain with a bucket/gasket? I could easily do this myself just to see if the pool continues to leak down. Irrespective, I will have someone look for the leak.

Just FYI, I can turn my inlet valve to draw water from the main drain only. In doing so, the pump stays primed and there is no muddy water to be seen? I'm assuming one or both would be an issue with a main drain leak in which I am losing over 300ga of water per day?

God Bless,
Ralph
 
zea3 said:
Most liners are between 20mil and 30 mil thick. Thicker is usually better, but the difference is minimal.
Click to expand...

I think this is a bit oversimplified of an answer, and could be considered wrong by many people.

The pattern on the liner will fade at the same rate, regardless of thickness. So with a thinner liner, the liner will most likely fail around the time the colors gets faded away and turns white. With a thicker liner, you will likely end up with a bleached out white liner for a year or 2 before it will fail. So many times, people hate the white look, and replaced the liner anyway before it fails.

Thicker liners are harder to get into corners. Liners are actually made smaller than the dimensions of the pool, and will then stretch once water is added. Thicker liners are harder to stretch, so you can end up with some air gaps between the liner and the wall.

Regardless, make sure that the floor is leveled out and repaired before the new liner is installed.
 
zea3 said:
Most liners come with a 10-20 year pro-rated warranty. Most liners are between 20mil and 30 mil thick. Thicker is usually better, but the difference is minimal.

Current liner sounds brittle so it probably has a small tear near a seam.
Click to expand...

Just thought I would post this to show the difference in liner thicknesses. Also mil is good, gauge is not really the best way to measure liner thickness.

Comparing Vinyl Liner Thickness: Mil vs. Gauge (ga) | Ameri-Brand

This is also very helpful:

Mil vs Gauge What Is The Deal With Liner Thickness abovegroundpool
 
Thanks for all the input and advice!

My daughters and I spent several hours looking for tears under the water line today. My younger daughter did indeed find a 1/4in tear about 4ft below the water line. I don't think that single hole would be sufficient to lose roughly 16ga/hr but maybe several could?

We checked the main drain with some dye again as well and it doesn't seem to be an issue. We put dye (food coloring) all around the drain on several attempts and even squirted it inside the drain cover on several attempts. The dye just floated lazily around and out of the drain before finally dissipating after several minute. So I'm fairly confident there is no issue there.

Ralph
 
I don't think that single hole would be sufficient to lose roughly 16ga/hr but maybe several could?
Click to expand...

How are you measuring 16 GPH? With evaporation and a slight rip, this is IMO normal. You could loose up to 1" per day. In addition, a 16*35 rectangular pool would have to be 6' deep to be at 25,000 gallons. Your shallow end should be 3', and then you have the slope and sides that all come down to the deep end. Are you 6' or 8' on the deep end? I believe you are closer to the 20,000 gallon mark.

A 16' * 35' pool that is 1' deep (rectangular) is 4,200 gallons. Take 1/12th, which is 1" and you have 350 gallons a day. Divide by 24 hours and you have 14.58 gallons per hour or loss (on average). This is probably a little more than normal, but I would guess you are loosing 1/2" per day, and the remainder due to evaporation.
 
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