Removing DE from pool

[PoolStored]

Without confirmation, I'm assuming you have a push pull valve.

Could be either...

You should look at a filter issue. Can you post the make and model of the filter?

On the valve side, If the valve shaft O rings are worn/missing this can also happen. Which valve is it (make and model)? If an older Pentair with the stainless-steel shaft, the "pucks" holding the O rings are held in place by small "e" clips that break/corrode/disappear. The "puck" moves and the same thing will happen.

Slide Valves - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

 

[House2021]

I have a pentair fns60 de filter from late 2015. It has a plastic push/pull valve. From looking at your diagram I understand how the push valve controls whether me water from the pump goes to the filter or waste but don’t understand how that would cause DE to go into the pool.

Right now I’m debating if I should spend money/time replacing the grids and manifold (they look fine) or replace the whole thing with cartridge filter. Pentair costs about $1450 and there are some cheaper brands for $600 to $1000. What’s the life of a pentair de filter, wondering if mine being 9 years old is near the end of its life

 

[PoolStored]

I was wondering how would a leaky backwash valve cause DE to end up in the pool? Doesn’t it just control whether the water after the pump goes to waste or the filter? If instead of the filter it went to waste, how does that cause DE to go to the pool?

If the o-rings are bad, the DE can get into the pool.

You have an issue with the push pull (o-rings) or with the filter.

Our general advice is that a DE filter can be a great filter, until there are...um...issues. I, and many others here, recommend that you get the largest cartridge filter you can afford and will fit your pad, and don't look back. DE really doesn't offer that much benefit, and it is a PITA, at times like yours, to deal with.

Since you are at a point you have issues, now is likely the time to move vs. investing more in DE. But your pocket book is your pocket book.

The Pentair Clean & Clear PLUS is a great filter. Many are finding success lately with the Waterway Crystal Water Cartridge Filters.

You don't say how big your pool is, but the general advice is to buy the largest filter you can afford and will fit your pad. With a 425sqft or 525sqft filter, you likely will clean the filter once a year with a pool up to 30K. For us, not having to clean filters is a benefit.

 

[House2021]

I have a 30k gallon pool, was considering the 425sqft model.

From looking at the diagram of the push pull valve, I still don’t understand how it can cause DE to leak to the pool.

Here is a diagram of my setup:
POOL → Skimmer → Pump → PUSH/PULL VALVE (if pushed down)→ Filter → Return to Pool


POOL → Skimmer → Pump → PUSH/PULL VALVE (if pulled up)→ Waste


The push/pull valve is located between the pump and the filter, NOT after the filter. It controls whether water goes:
• Straight to the filter (normal operation)
• Or bypasses to waste (backwash)

Considering the push/pull valve is upstream of the filter, how can it possibly cause DE to go into the pool if it’s leaking?

 

[PoolStored]

The majority of the time it is an issue with the filter.

However, bad o-rings in the valve can also cause the issue. Doesn't seem obvious, but it happens...with bad o-rings, pressure can push water through the o-rings back into the pool.

Slide Valves - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

 

[Jimrahbe]

H,

How much DE actually went into your pool?

Are we talking a little from a leak, or did all of the DE drain out of your filter???

DE can also leak out of the filter through the pump, or out the return lines, if the filter drains down due to an air leak or ???? In theory, when you shut off the pump, all the water should stay in the filter.. Maybe your Push/Pull valve is leaking air into the filter allowing it to drain back into the pool...

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[House2021]

I have a pool robot that uses a battery and I’ve ran it maybe 5-8 times and each time it picked up maybe 3 spoonfuls of mushy DE. Not sure how more is left, I can’t see it on the floor except when the robot is running it gets very cloudy around the robot.

I did notice some air bubbles coming out of the return lines. I released the pressure on the filter until water came out but still there’s air bubbles. Also I noticed when I turn off the pump a small amount of water comes out of it. I don’t see any leaks from the pump or filter while it’s running, only the backwash valve

 

[Jimrahbe]

H,

When you first turn the pump back on, after being off overnight, do you see a huge amount of bubbles for about 15 or 20 seconds...??

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[House2021]

H,

When you first turn the pump back on, after being off overnight, do you see a huge amount of bubbles for about 15 or 20 seconds...??

Thanks,

Jim R.

Yes I do but then they go away in 20 seconds as you said and after it’s a very small amount on going

 

[Jimrahbe]

H,

Then my guess is that your filter drains down, when the pump is off, and that is dumping some of your DE back into the pool..

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[House2021]

H,

Then my guess is that your filter drains down, when the pump is off, and that is dumping some of your DE back into the pool..

Thanks,

Jim R.

What would cause that and what needs to be replaced to fix that

 

[Jimrahbe]

H,

I'm sure you have put your thumb over the end of the straw, and when you pull it out of the glass, the water stays in the straw. But, when you take your thumb off the end of the straw, the water just drains right out...

Your filter does the same thing..

Any air that can get in, can cause the problem.. The problem is finding the air leak..

Most, but not all, water leaks, will let air in, when the pump is off.. So the first thing to try would be to fix any obvious leaks, no matter how small.

The fact that when you shut off the pump, water squirts out from under the pump lid may mean your lid is bad, or needs pool lube.. It could also be that whatever holds your lid down is worn.

I have seen a couple of Hayward DE filter where the air relief valve would allow air in when the pump was off, but not allow water out when the pump was on. When you turned the pump off, you could actually hear the air being sucked into the filter through the air relief valve..

I think you said your push-pull valve has an obvious leak.. If so, that would be the first thing I'd fix.

I didn't say it would be easy to find...

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[House2021]

So I replaced the back wash valve with a new one and also found a small crack in my pump body near where the lid goes. I put industrial silicone on it and now I don’t see anymore air bubbles in my return lines. Also after vacuuming the floor and running the robot it picked up very little DE.

Some remaining concerns
1) I see a bubble in the pump glass and it doesn’t change size when it’s on or off, it seems static. I tried getting rid of by releasing the air in the filter but no change. As mentioned I have no air now in return lines. Is there a way to get rid of it and should I be concerned?

2) my robot picked up a lot of DE which I trashed and also I pulled the backwash valve which released all the water from the filter. Do I add more DE? When I initially did it I added 6 lbs per filter instructions. How much do I add now? Or should I just can the entire filter and start with 6?