Pump Stops After An Hour Or So..........

[IguanaSwim]

Hello,

This pump A100ELL is less than a year old, so it is still under warranty. When I installed it last December I heard a faint high pitched tone and I nearly took it back. In fact, I called the place where I bought it and they encouraged me to return it. But one thing led to another and I kind of got used to the extra little noise so I never took it back.



Now the pump is stopping each time I turn it on. It runs for a little over an hour and then shuts itself off. The repairman at the place where I bought it wanted me to check the voltages to be sure good electricity is getting to the pump before I take it to the repair shop. I've just finished researching that and want to verify.



That black wire might look like it's cut off, but it actually attaches to the screw about an inch before the end of the wire.

The multi meter said that there was 118 volts when I put the black probe on the black line and the red on the white wire. The multimeter said 118 when I put the black probe on the green screw and the red probe on the black line. When I tried the same with the green and the white I got zeros.

I also checked the timer box.


Here I got 123 volts between the left and middle screws, and the middle and the right ones. When I tried the left and the right connections I got zeros.

It looks to me like the electricity going to the motor is good, but I wanted to post and verify.

Thumbs up?

 

[Texas Splash]

Sounds like you are getting 120V to the pump so that's good if it is indeed designed to operate that way. That would be my first question. Was that motor configured for 120 or 240 from the factory? Also, is the top of that capacitor scorched? Looks a bit white on top, or maybe it's just the view on my laptop? @JamesW any other thoughts?

 

[JamesW]

My first thought would be that the motor is too small.

Check the current and see if it exceeds the label amps.

What impeller do you have?

What is the total HP of the motor?

Impeller......Total HP.

073126.........0.95
073127.........1.25
073128.........1.65
073129.........2.20
073130.........2.60
073131.........3.45

The total hp is the rated hp x the service factor.

A 1.0 hp motor with a service factor of 1.65 is the same as a 1.5 hp motor with a service factor of 1.1.

A 1.0 hp motor with a service factor of 1.65 is called a "full rated" motor.

A 1.5 hp motor with a service factor of 1.1 is called an "up-rated" motor.

They are both the exact same motor. They both have a total of 1.65 hp.

So, it's confusing to see one listed as 1 hp and the other listed as 1.5 hp.

The key is the total hp, which is what really matters.

 

[JamesW]

Where is the bond wire?

How hot is the motor getting?

 

[JamesW]

Get a clamp ammeter and clamp it around the black or white wire to get a reading on the amps.

 

[JamesW]

Also, make sure that the seal is not leaking.

 

[IguanaSwim]

Thanks for all the information.

The idea that the pump isn't well suited for the other components had not occurred to me and must be considered.

The capacitor seems to be in good condition. There is a glare on the paint of the capacitor in all photos I take of the motor. No bulging on the sides or tops though and definitely no scorching.


Regarding the HP of the motor I can only refer to the label, which says 1.



That is an excellent list you have JamesW!

What is the total HP of the motor?

Impeller......Total HP.

073126.........0.95
073127.........1.25
073128.........1.65
073129.........2.20
073130.........2.60
073131.........3.45

The total hp is the rated hp x the service factor.

I will be taking my pump apart in the next few days to get that info. If it matters, my pool is only 13,000 gallons.

Also, I have had the thought that the repair guy at the store may question me about the source of the info in your list. I did do a search for "073126 impeller" and I only found warranty info. Pentair's website was a bit of a muddle. Can you point me to where I can find that? If not, no problem, I expect I will be able to find it if I spend more time looking for it.

I will be buying a clamp meter soon to check out amps. Thanks again.

Do you think I should run it again and check the temperatures? Maybe I should call the sprinkler shop and them this question.

 

[JamesW]

The Service Factor is 1.25, so the total HP is 1 X 1.25 = 1.25.

So, if the impeller is bigger than a 073127, then the motor is overloaded.

If the amperage at 115 volts is more than 15.3 amps, then the motor is overloaded.

WhisperFlo® High Performance Pump

Pentair WhisperFlo High Performance Pool Pump is perfect for your inground pool, delivering high water flow and quiet performance. Shop pool pumps here.

www.pentair.com

https://www.pentair.com/content/dam/extranet/nam/pentair-pool/residential/manuals/pumps/whisperflo/whisperflo-pump-manual-english-spanish.pdf

They actually make it ridiculously difficult to figure out what size motor to use.

First, you have to look up the total hp of the pump and then you look up what impeller the pump uses.

The WFE-2 uses a 073126 impeller and it has a total hp of 0.95.

For example, the WFE-3 pump uses a 073127 impeller and has a SFHP (Total HP) of 1.25 HP.

The WFDS-4 pump has a total hp (SFHP) of 1.65 and it uses a 073128 impeller.

Does your pump have a model number somewhere?

 

[Mike1162]

I noticed a few things in your 1st picture.
#1 A lot of leaves, needles & other debris near the motor. I'd clean that up so it can't affect air flow through the motor. Check the vents at the bottom front of the motor & make sure they are clear.
#2 Looks like a little bit of the insulation on the black wire is under the screw. It may not be enough to cause the problem but I'd fix it anyway.
#3 The white wire is over the switch contacts. I'm not sure if it can get close enough to the contact to cause problems but reposition it anyway.

 

[IguanaSwim]

Nice ideas Mike I will be working on all of that.

Thanks for the informative and well sourced reply James! I had never noticed the label on the other side of the pump but here it is:



Model # is WF-26. It's very old so I'm sure the impeller is not original. It seems to me I would need to take apart the pump and get the impeller number.

 

[JamesW]

The WF-26 comes with a 073128 impeller.

If that is what you have, then it is overloading the motor.

I would get a smaller impeller and a seal so that you can do the repair when you get it apart.

How much flow do you need?

 

[IguanaSwim]

You said in a comment on Friday that the total HP of my A100ELL motor was 1.25. According to the chart, the HP required to operate the 073128 impeller is 1. Now you are telling me to get a smaller impeller, I presume like the 073127 which works with a 3/4 HP motor??

I just want to check - - - - and I don't need to trouble you to provide an explanation b/c you are very kind to answer questions - - - - - is your Saturday comment that the motor is being overloaded correct?

To your question about flow, I did some research and I see that is related to pressure. I don't know the answer to your question, the only comment I can make is that the gauge, which is only 3 or 4 years old, always had the pressure needle at 13, and when I put in this new motor in November of 2020, the pressure needle goes to the same reading of 13.

I did some research and see that any reading between 10 and 25 is OK.

 

[JamesW]

According to the chart, the HP required to operate the 073128 impeller is 1.

That is the "Rated" hp, which means nothing by itself.

The "Rated" hp is 1.0 but the service factor is 1.65, so the total hp is 1.65.

You need to know the SFHP, which is the service factor hp, which is the total hp.

The service factor is usually somewhere between 1.0 and 1.99.

It's confusing, I get that.

In any case, the below chart is correct.

Impeller......Total HP.

073126.........0.95
073127.........1.25
073128.........1.65
073129.........2.20
073130.........2.60
073131.........3.45

What impeller do you have?

 

[IguanaSwim]

That is the "Rated" hp, which means nothing by itself.

The "Rated" hp is 1.0 but the service factor is 1.65, so the total hp is 1.65.

You need to know the SFHP, which is the service factor hp, which is the total hp.

The service factor is usually somewhere between 1.0 and 1.99.

It's confusing, I get that.

In any case, the below chart is correct.

Impeller......Total HP.

073126.........0.95
073127.........1.25
073128.........1.65
073129.........2.20
073130.........2.60
073131.........3.45

What impeller do you have?

On Friday you said the service factor was 1.25.

I finally got that impeller off after I finally finally figured out it I needed to twist the impeller counter clockwise with my hand. There was no Philips head screw to remove as I was expecting. I used a 7/16 open wrench to grip the motor shaft at the back end of the motor and hold the shaft while I twisted. I installed the shaft seal, impeller and motor this past November but failed to remember how I did it.





If there is a part number, it has to be hidden under that white seal. Should I remove it?

I could just take the motor, impeller and your handy chart and go into the shop if you think we're at that point.

It sure would be nice if the impeller companies put the impeller part numbers in an easy to see place!!

 

[Mike1162]

Are those cracks I see on the face of the seal?

 

[JamesW]

On Friday you said the service factor was 1.25.

The HP of the current motor is 1.0 and the service factor of the current motor is 1.25, which makes the current motor total HP = 1.25 hp.

The original pump motor had a total hp of 1.65 hp.

So, the current motor is too small assuming that the current impeller is the original size.

Sometimes the impeller number is inside or on the rim like below.

In any case, based on the current motor of 1.25 hp, you can use a 073126 or a 073127 impeller.

You also need a new seal and an impeller screw (it's a reverse thread screw).

 

[JamesW]

Are those cracks I see on the face of the seal?

The impeller and seal are both cracked and they both need to be replaced.

 

[IguanaSwim]

So, just to recap............

I had a motor which was over loaded but functioning. After about 8 months of use, it started cutting out after one hour of use. Can you look into your crystal ball, James W, and tell me. Is this motor now damaged?

I expect to be going into the shop where I bought it in the next few days, I now know quite a bit of important information, but not sure if I should be asking for a new or different motor.

BTW - I found the model of the motor which died in November of 2020. HSQ165. HP for this motor is 1.65 as you said it should be.

 

[JamesW]

No way to tell for sure if the motor is ok.

I would replace the impeller and see if it runs well or not.

Theoretically, the thermal overload should protect the motor, but maybe not.

 

[IguanaSwim]

I replaced the impeller and the problem is still there. Pump ran for 35 minutes and shut off. I should have taken the temp of the casing but did not do that. At this point, the people at the plumping place where I bought this suspect some sort of wiring issue.

I have checked continuity of the three wires running between the timer and the motor.

For the White and Black wires, the continuity was at mostly .8 or .7 and jumped around somewhat between 9 thru 6. The beeping noise was not constant, but irregular. For example, a 3 second beep and then a few 1 second beeps, and then another 3 second beep.

For the Green wire, I got a continuous beep and many different numbers flashing on my MM. 26.5, 1.5. etc., etc. I don't think it ever flashed OL. Is the green wire broken inside the conduit?

I can understand the view of the pool pump store, they don't want to exchange a pump if the motor was damaged by faulty wiring.