Pump Pressure Down- need help figuring out the problem

[dphill2006]

I have a Pentair Challenger 1HP pump, connected with a Pentair CCP 520 filter.

Earlier this week, I was trying to run my Zodiac MX8, and noticed it wasn't really running. I checked for obstructions, and it was clear, and then realized that the flow at returns was way down as well. I switched the valve to the bottom drain to see if that changed anything, and the flow remained the same, so it appears that the pump is only running at about 50% of its usual power/capacity.

At first I was thinking there might be an obstruction between the skimmer, where the MX8 connects, and the pump, but I don't think that is the issue now, as the pump power seems unchanged when I switch to the bottom drain.

What else might be the issue? Would dirty filter cartridges cause a decrease in pressure from the pump? How would I know if there was an obstruction in the pump/impeller?

Hoping there is a simple fix here that doesn't require buying a new pump!

 

[Texas Splash]

Some basics to consider:
- If you had a suction line blockage, your filter PSI gauge should drop, and return jet force would be reduced. You might even see more air in the strainer basket under the lid.
- If the filters were dirty, your filter gauge should have spiked upwards.
- If there was a blockage at the impeller, it could impede water flow enough to slow things down. With power off (breaker as well), consider reaching into the pump impeller area and feeling by hand. The impeller should feel free of debris and be able to turn relatively easily with your fingers.

Maybe some of these will help get you on track or at least eliminate those as suspect areas. Let us know.

 

[Jimrahbe]

dp,

When was the last time you cleaned your filter cartridges?

What does the filter pressure gauge read???

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[dphill2006]

Cleaned the filters by spraying with a high-pressure nozzle, which gave some improvement- they were installed new in June of 2016 and hadn't been cleaned since. I think the pressure gauge on the filer needs to be replaced as it just reads 0- seems like that should be an easy fix to do myself, right?

So while there seems to be more pressure, the pump filter still doesn't fully fill/prime it seems. There also seems to be some rattling noises coming from the pump. I was thinking of trying an acid clean on the cartridges, but with the rattling noises, I'm now wondering if a need to get someone to take a look at it.

 

[Texas Splash]

they were installed new in June of 2016 and hadn't been cleaned since. I think the pressure gauge on the filer needs to be replaced as it just reads 0- seems like that should be an easy fix to do myself, right?

Oh my. Yes, your filters should probably be rinsed-off at least couple times a year if the water is clean & clear. TFTestkit has some really nice glycerin-filled gauges that you can install yourself. Flow Meters and PSI Gauges Just keep some Teflon tape handy to wrap the threads.

I was thinking of trying an acid clean on the cartridges,

I would avoid this at the moment. Unless you properly clean cartridge filters in advance with something like TSP from the hardware store to fully dislodge any oils and contaminants, the acid will combine with the residue and ruin your filters.

Now a pump not fully priming, not to mention the rattling, can be a couple issues. First we look to see if there's anything water-related impeding flow to the pump, or if perhaps air is getting sucked into the lines. The rattling is a sign of a mechanical issue, perhaps the bearings showing signs of age. For now, I'd ensure the pool's water level is high enough (midway to 3/4 up the skimmer opening) and take a look at the TFP Pool School - Suction Side Air Leaks to see if anything stands-out.

 

[Jimrahbe]

dp,

Did you take the four cartridges out and spray them down, or did you try to do it with the cartridges still in the filter? I have the same filter and it takes me about 15 minutes of cleaning per cartridge..

You can, if you want, temporarily run your filter without the cartridges and see what your water flow feels like.. That should tell you if it is a cartridge problem or a pump problem.. Good and clean cartridges will have little impact on the amount of water flow.

If the pump is making rattling sounds, and you don't feel comfortable taking it apart, then calling in a pool maintenance guy would seem to be the best option to me.

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[dphill2006]

Good idea re: running without cartridges. Yes I did remove from pump and cleaned individually- ha- side yard is a complete mess now- any tips on getting rid of the white mud that came out of them?

I’ll give that a shot and see if things improve, then I’ll be looking for a pool specialist.

I need the entire equipment pad re-done as the previous owners installed the equipment on the ground/dirt instead of on a concrete pad.

I was planning on doing that when the pump dies, but was hoping I could get another season out of it before having to do that.

side question about the CCP520- the outer shell is flaking off fiberglass (or whatever resin the shell is made of)dust- I have to wear longsleeves any time I take the filter apart or else my arms get really irritated. Do you think it would be possible to just re-paint it instead of having to get a new part?

 

[Jimrahbe]

dp,

I think they make the fiberglass filter shells, which turn to dust as soon as they see sunlight, just to aggravate people like you and me...

Yes, it is best to paint them...

Jim R.

 

[dphill2006]

Update- pressure seems to have come up a bit today, however the filter pot still hasn’t fully primed.

I have a local pool installer/repair company scheduled to come out in a few weeks to take a look at the system and quote me for a new pad and relocation of gear. Considering a new pump if I go ahead with it.

I am looking at the Pentair whisperflo 1hp- any thoughts on that pump? What is the difference between an up rated pump and a full pump?

 

[Jimrahbe]

dp,

I am not a fan of single speed pumps... I have a 3 HP IntelliFlo that I can run at 1200 rpm 24/7 for less than $20 bucks a month.

Single speed pumps no longer make sense to run... I would install a 2-speed or VS pump which will save on your electrical costs.

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[dphill2006]

UPDATE:

A thorough cleaning of the filter cartridges and a take apart cleaning of the MX8 seems to have restored flow. I think what happened was that the pressure gauge had died on the filter, so it wasn't registering that it was time for a cleaning. I replaced with the pressure gauge recommended above and seems to be working now.

I should be getting a quote in the next day or two for moving my existing equipment to a concrete pad, and the tech that is quoting the work confirmed I have 220v service to the current pump.

So now I need to decide on a new pump. The logic above and in other threads seems to be a Variable Speed pump w/ the highest HP rating that your electrical equipment will support (in this case 220v), as the higher HP pump will move more water at a lower RPM than a lower HP pump.

Any advice on the difference between an "Up-rated" pump vs. a Full Power pump?

Any other brands worth looking at outside of Pentair?

Pentair Whisperflo vs. Intelliflo- what is the difference? Whisperflo "sounds" quieter, but doesn't look like you can go outside of the 2 speeds. Intelliflo- allows for dialing in on any specific RPM speed- is that correct?

Very simple pool set up- 1 Bottom Drain, 1 Skimmer drain- going to a 3 way valve that feeds the pump. Pump outputs to CCP 520 filter. Filter Outputs to 3 way valve, which splits to a "swimming" return (5-6 1" returns), and a "circulation" return (3 2" eyeball returns). Pump is connected to an old intermatic timer. Pool is 8.5' deep at bottom drain.