Protecting pool equipment during electrical storms.

[cowboycasey]

The closer it is to the equipment the better... I do have one for the whole house in the breaker box and I hope it works for everything in the house and it should work just fine.. But I also have a plug in surge protector on all my equipment inside the house... I lost 2. 1500 dollar TV's when I first moved to Oklahoma because of stray lightning and now I have lost nothing in 8 years since I started doing this...

You want the SPD as close as possible to the equipment your protecting...

 

[JoyfulNoise]

Understood, however, this seems to negate the purpose of a whole home SPD then at main service entry. I am not trying to argue or disprove your point but why pay for a whole home SPD then if you're saying the further away from the SPD a device is located the less protection it receives? This would tell us we need a SPD at every single outlet in our home for every single connected device and the whole home SPD is just a "make you fell better" device and we should all go purchase SPDs for every outlet in our homes. The "selling point" of a whole home SPD is you install it at service entry (outside before your house main breaker panel, or as the first device inside in your main house breaker panel) and it will sacrifice itself before allowing the over voltage/spike to harm devices further down line. Why buy whole home SPD then if we need to install another SPD down the line for protection...

As @mknauss pointed out, surges can originate from sources other than the main panel. Proper SPD implementation always uses a layered approach with a heavy duty SPD at the main panel and then additional protection at high value assets. SPD’s have a finite energy discharge capacity as well as a limited number of active surge cycles that they can operate at before they fail. Layering the devices prevents “single point of failure” circumstances. The cost of SPDs are tiny in comparison to the high replacement cost of all the electronic devices in modern homes nowadays. TVs, refrigerators, internet devices, computers, pool equipment, HVAC controls, garage door openers … all of these things can amount to thousands of dollars or even tens of thousands of dollars in replacement costs and most surges will not be covered under homeowners insurance (“Acts of God” clause). Spending a few hundred bucks to install them is well worth it since most major SPDs will also include warranties against damage to equipment and provide additional coverage where H/O insurance will not.

 

[Wolfepack88]

As @mknauss pointed out, surges can originate from sources other than the main panel. Proper SPD implementation always uses a layered approach with a heavy duty SPD at the main panel and then additional protection at high value assets. SPD’s have a finite energy discharge capacity as well as a limited number of active surge cycles that they can operate at before they fail. Layering the devices prevents “single point of failure” circumstances. The cost of SPDs are tiny in comparison to the high replacement cost of all the electronic devices in modern homes nowadays. TVs, refrigerators, internet devices, computers, pool equipment, HVAC controls, garage door openers … all of these things can amount to thousands of dollars or even tens of thousands of dollars in replacement costs and most surges will not be covered under homeowners insurance (“Acts of God” clause). Spending a few hundred bucks to install them is well worth it since most major SPDs will also include warranties against damage to equipment and provide additional coverage where H/O insurance will not.

Exactly and the SPD still lets some current through that could do some harm so keeping your strips you have is a good idea and a provides a layered approach. Most people never replace those strips and over time they get used up form small little surges you don't even realize that happen. Thus the main panel ones that actually alert you visually and audibly they need replacing is key. That's why I picked the siemens one's as well. Ok beat this to death, apologies.

 

[JoyfulNoise]

Exactly and the SPD still lets some current through that could do some harm so keeping your strips you have is a good idea and a provides a layered approach. Most people never replace those strips and over time they get used up form small little surges you don't even realize that happen. Thus the main panel ones that actually alert you visually and audibly they need replacing is key. That's why I picked the siemens one's as well. Ok beat this to death, apologies.

No, it’s an important point to make. SPDs need to be checked periodically that they are still operating. All the good ones have LED indicators to let a user know they are working. The wall receptacle version I installed has a green LED as well as an audible alarm if it stops working. SPDs can sometimes fail in a “conductive” state and this has been the source of fires caused by a failed SPD. All of the good manufacturers design in as much thermal runaway protection as possible so that they fail in an open state or they can handle discharge currents without overheating. Cheap SPDs are like cheap shoes … you get why you pay for.

 

[Aspec]

Great information and discussion taking place on this thread. Might be a dumb question, but based on the fact the SPD should be placed the shortest distance from the devices it's protecting in my case, I want to place one (likely the Siemens boltshield as my panel breakers are all Siemens already) in my pools subpanel does it matter which position the SPD is installed? i.e. will the RED highlighted area offer any better protection than the GREEN highlighted area? Same for wiring this device to the neutral bar, does it matter if it's above/below other connected devices for max effectiveness?

 

[HeyEng]

What is crazy is I just bought them on August 14, 2021 on Amazon and they were $191.40. I couldn't remember so I searched my orders on Amazon and found the order. Today Amazon has them for $302.40 now. Holy Crud I can't imagine building my pool now vs last summer. Prices are going to be insane for everything.

I looked them up and wow. They *are* expensive. However, they are very much worth it if/when there is a substantial surge. Our insurance deductible is $10K, so any surge damage would be quite expensive for us...so $500'ish (installed) is not a bad deal at all.

As to "direct strike", our last home had a SPD on the meter and one on the panel as electrical storms were pretty common. We had a strike that was within 100 feet of the meter and there was no damage to anything except the SSP on the panel (as expected). So I think DIRECT would mean really, REALLY close.

 

[JoyfulNoise]

Great information and discussion taking place on this thread. Might be a dumb question, but based on the fact the SPD should be placed the shortest distance from the devices it's protecting in my case, I want to place one (likely the Siemens boltshield as my panel breakers are all Siemens already) in my pools subpanel does it matter which position the SPD is installed? i.e. will the RED highlighted area offer any better protection than the GREEN highlighted area? Same for wiring this device to the neutral bar, does it matter if it's above/below other connected devices for max effectiveness?

View attachment 395095

I don’t think it matters. Either slot will work fine. That bus is so small that the SPD will protect everything. Just remember that both legs of the incoming split phase power needs to be protected so that will require two breaker slots.

 

[ajw22]

Great information and discussion taking place on this thread. Might be a dumb question, but based on the fact the SPD should be placed the shortest distance from the devices it's protecting in my case, I want to place one (likely the Siemens boltshield as my panel breakers are all Siemens already) in my pools subpanel does it matter which position the SPD is installed? i.e. will the RED highlighted area offer any better protection than the GREEN highlighted area? Same for wiring this device to the neutral bar, does it matter if it's above/below other connected devices for max effectiveness?

Note that on your panel the electrical feed connects to the bottom of the bus bar. On some panels the feed connects to the top of the bus bar.

In general it is recommended you put the SPD connected next to the incoming feed. In your panel it would be the bottom slots.

In practice the red bottom slot versus the green slot next up will not make any difference. Especially since the slots closer to the feed are not being used.

 

[Wolfepack88]

Great information and discussion taking place on this thread. Might be a dumb question, but based on the fact the SPD should be placed the shortest distance from the devices it's protecting in my case, I want to place one (likely the Siemens boltshield as my panel breakers are all Siemens already) in my pools subpanel does it matter which position the SPD is installed? i.e. will the RED highlighted area offer any better protection than the GREEN highlighted area? Same for wiring this device to the neutral bar, does it matter if it's above/below other connected devices for max effectiveness?

View attachment 395095

My brother whose a master electrician and the actual electrician that installed them, both said that some do recommend first slot but some don't because you are talking about milliseconds and the the surge seeks the shortest and quickest path to ground essentially. That is what I was told and I may be not have explained that perfectly, but the unit will work even if not in the exact first slot.

To expand this further if you are using a unit that is wired to a double pole breaker it's more important to keep the distance between the SPD and the breaker as short as possible. If you can do that in slot 1 that is great, but if you cant fit the spd itself next to slot one and have to locate it a foot or two away from the breaker, that's not great. Like mine it was the shortest distance between the double pole breaker and the unit itself by putting down at the bottom where there was breaker space. Now if you use the siemens bolt on that was referenced earlier that would be great in slot one as that eliminates the distance issue.

 

[Aspec]

Thank you everyone. I could go with the bottom/closest to the incoming feed right side/under the green highlight too but then the neutral wire runs a greater distance. Since I have 2 positions open/available on the left side bottom closest to the feed plus it's right on top of the neutral bar makes more sense there.

 

[ajw22]

Neutral running a greater distance is not that important.

 

[BMerrill]

Suggest the SPD be installed in the red location.

 

[JoyfulNoise]

And to add on to all the way nagging (), make sure all of the wires running from the SPD to the bus are trimmed to length. Do not coil excess lengths or loop them up. Technically speaking you also should make all wire runs as straight as you can with only sharp 90° bends to make turns. You want to minimize stray inductance and capacitance as much as possible …. Then again, this isn’t a science experiment and you won’t void your warranty by ignoring any or all of the above advice.