Pressure side blockage

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andwhite1

At my wits end. I can not get water back to the pool.

I have tried everything. Had the leak detector guy out today. The pipes are not leaking. On the return or pressure side. The were all holding pressure. We cut the pipe going back to the pool and he put the camera in but he could only get about 3 ft in and couldn't see anything. I had already tried this with a snake and got about the same distance. This part is under my shed. The camera looked pretty big too me. Too big to get around any corners and what not. I have 1.5" pvc but the flexible underground tubing looks a bit narrower.

The only thing that is weird is that we cut the pipe where the PVC attaches to some type of flexible pvc/rubber type pipe is in the ground and it is all tore up on the inside. Kind of like the prev owner tried to roto rooter it with something too powerful.

I have tried the hose bladder thing on both ends. Blocked off all pool returns except one closest to shed. I can get a small trickle of water on either end. Same with leak detector guy. He turned the pressure up as high as he felt comfortable with and only a small trickle of water.

The pump absolutely is pumping water. I can turn it on filter and unhook the pressure side access valve after the filter and furnace and water flys out.

I can stick a hose into the return on the pool and water shoots out of all the returns. So it is between the shed and the pool.

I thought all the water was just leaking into the ground. Why I called the leak detector. But I suspected it was not b/c I could leave pump on and wasn't drastically losing water. I have even tried leaving pump on and plunging at return in pool. I can get water to come out like I am sucking water past the blockage.

Does my pump or the hose blaster thing provide more pressure. Maybe I should try the plunger with the hose blaster? Was hoping all the back and forth would loosen it but nope.

What kills me is I can't imagine what can even be in there to block it. I always leave my pump basket in. Something would have to go from the pump, through the filter, past the furnace/furnace piping (admittedly this is usually bypassed) then down into the pressure return line and then split somewhere around the pool to all the returns. I can not imagine what would be in there so solidly as to stop all my efforts so far. even if it was some leaves and seed pods etc.

I tried calling a few plumbers roto rooter type people but they say no pools. Does anyone know of a good pool service company in Chicago suburbs that works on pool piping. I guess at the end of day I might have to have a new line run back to the pool. What a huge pain...
 
So, what kind of pipe to you have underground?

Is it white schedule 40 flexible PVC?
Or is it black poly tubing?

Either way, if not properly backfilled, there is certainly a chance they they have been crushed. Maybe more likely if it was not put below the ground frost line.
 
Ok. More info. Pump equipment is in my shed. The piping inside goes into the cement. I can see the run of not original cement to where it runs out from shed under ground. I broke the cement and dug down to where the rigid pvc attaches to the schedule 40 flex pvc a couple weeks ago to see if those initial unions were leaking. They were not. This was about 2 feet down so the flex pvc could run under the cement pilings for the shed.

There is about a 9 ft run to where it comes out from under shed. Today I dug down to find the 3 lines. The main and skimmer line coming in and the return pressure line back to the pool. When the leak detector guy went in with the camera he only got about 3 ft in. So I figured the blockage is in that straight run under the shed. So I picked one of the lines and cut it and got lucky. It was the pressure line back to the pool. I can put the hose in it and water comes out of the returns in the pool. I can stick the hose back in towards the pump and hit and obstruction. So there is about 3 ft in the middle of that 9 ft run that is blocked.

I have no clue what happened under the shed. Maybe it is crushed? It certainly feels like that. Should I try calling a roto rooter type service. Can you even roto rooter flex pvc? The inside of the flex pvc is all pebbly? could it have deteriorated enough to block it. Like a clogged artery? But this did happen after winter so not sure. But we also had a pretty mild winter in chicago. Who knows?

I am leaning towards skip that and dig a trench around out side of shed and run a line back the the pump that way. It should be about 10 feet.

Thanks.

What say the experts? How deep down do you have to go to get past the frost line. In the shed was 2 ft down. Outside the shed I would say they were only 1.5 ft down. But the returns in the pool are about 3 feet down.
 
I would hazard a guess that the line is crushed. 1.5' - 2' in the Chicago area is nowhere deep enough to get below the frost line. Probably need closer to 3.5' to be safe. I would dig along the pipes until you get to the suspect area. You can also dig under the shed a bit, too, if need be.

Dan
 
Ok. The weird thing is that the skimmer and main drain lines run right along the pressure return line and don't seem to be affected. I wonder if I should just do those lines too since I am putting in the effort?

The consensus seems to be 3' to 3.5' down. Do I use regular schedule 40 PVC or the Flex PVC? Does one or the other perform better in cold climates?

Also a question. Forgive my ignorance. How does the cold/freezing affect the pipes? If I have closed the pool and cleared the water out of the pipes it won't get damage from water in the pipes. Does the freezing and thawing of the ground damage the pipes too?
 
Well after more google research today I found a lot of answers. I also found that flex vs rigid is a loaded question :) Wow talk about a lot of online opinions! However I have some info to add against flex PVC. Apparently the interior of flex pipe deteriorates from exposure to concentrated chlorine. Watch this video Anthony Skimmer Line 1 - YouTube

So I identified why my flex pressure return looked so crazy inside. I thought is looked like some attacked it with a roto rooter. Nah. Right before my cut was the inline chlorine feeder! So I can be pretty sure anecdotally this was caused by that over the last 10 years. I took the feeder out since I follow the TFP method religiously. But the damage had already been done. I would say the inside diameter of my 1.5" pipe had been reduced about a quarter to a half. Not as bad as the video but still significant. it was still present but not as bad where I cut the flex return line 10 feet down the line. Usually they say this is caused from putting chlorine tabs in the skimmer. But I can confirm this can be caused by the auto feeder too.

So that's my latest theory. That the auto feeder deteriorated the flex under the shed/shed pad enough to where this past winter (maybe I didn't get all the water out at closing -so perhaps that expansion/contraction contributed?) cause this damaged section to compress and collapse. Seems as good as any other theory :)
 

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Sigh. I was thinking the same thing. After going thtough all this work I might as well. Jesus 3 ft plus down is pretty far. Almost to 2'. Hopefully I survive :)
 
If you are digging in your shed their is no reason to dig 3 feet... Frost travels down so the pipes under your shed are protected. If u want Xtra pc of mind put some rigid foam a few inches above your lines. The frost will go no lower that the rigid foam.
 
Yeah. I figured that is why the flex pipe under the shed wasn't very deep. Because the shed/pad cement protected it. But I am not digging in/under the shed. Around the outside. When you say rigid foam what do you mean exactly? Do I put it just on top of the pipe? I'm almost to 2'. Not sure I can get to 3' :)
 
That pink or blue rigged Styrofoam that u can get at your local building supply.. usually u see it on foundation walls it's about 11/2 - 2 inches thick. Backfill around your pipe with sand and give it a inch or 2 of sand over top so u have a level surface for the foam. Cut to fit hole and Backfill
 
So I finally dug to the source of my problem under the shed. it was a kinked flex PVC return pipe. Kinked in two spots. It is about 13 years old. I think the auto chlorinator weakened it and perhaps some years of not getting all the water out of the return line weakened it even further to where it could kink from the weight of the concrete shed pilings above and perhaps sharp rocks below. I have included some pics if you want to see the damage. the pipe broke when I was pulling it at the second kink.

20170731_184348.jpg20170731_184343.jpg20170731_184335.jpg20170731_184329.jpg
 

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